Talk:Stjepan Mesić

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Mesic`s crticism on Tudman
One should mention that while Mesic heavily criticizes Tudman and accuses him of wanting to divide Bosnia with Milosevic, he could not deliver any valuable proof for his statements. There are many politicians in Croatia (not only extreme right wing) who do not share Mesic`s point of view and say that there was no agreement, which can be best seen in the fact that Serbs and Croats were at war with each other all the time. Nonetheless his staments seem to be gladly accepted as facts by the western society as it just supports their negative attitude towards Tudman.

Mesic`s reason for leaving HDZ (the probable division of Bosnia by Tudman and Milosevic) is also highly questionable as he left the party AFTER Croats and Muslims signed a truce in Bosnia. If HDZ`s policy was such a problem for him he could have left the party in 1993 when the fiercest fighting occured and many war crimes on both sides were commited.

One should also bear in mind that Mesic after his departure from HDZ was a political enemy to Tudman, so one should read his statements and accusations with caution, as they can not be unbiased. They are just his point of view which is unfortantelly often accepted as the ultimate truth.

Quotes
The quotes that do not show Mesic in the best light should not be removed on that basis! According to Jimbo Wales, in an incident with politicians from US Senate, whose staff were removing material from wikipedia, it is against wikipedia policies to remove material on the basis that it is not favourable to a political party/personality FedorPetrich 20:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That was not the reason for their removal; the quotes are uncited and insignificant. --AHrvojic 00:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * They are very significant, as they show the policies of HDZ at the time. The quotes were widely cited at the time, had frightened Krajina Serbs, and that fact alone makes them significant. They are also part of the evidence at ICTY. This is how Mesic is seen by Krajina Serbs, and according to wikipedia policies, NPOV text should contain the quotes relevant to public perception of Mesic - and that includes perception of ALL people, not just Croats or his supporters! FedorPetrich 01:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I still doubt their significance and I disagree with what you say they show, but the fact remains that you haven't provided any official sources for these quotes, nor any context. If they've been entered as ICTY evidence, then you should find the transcripts online if possible and make it clear who entered them as such.  Your point is well-taken, though you shouldn't assume that all Croats automatically support Mesic--I'm only interested in a fair article, regardless of whether I like everything in it or not. --AHrvojic 00:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Presidents' Flag
As I see, the Presidents' Flag will soon be deleted. Could somebody put it legally to Commons? --Neoneo13 14:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced quotes

 * Croatia never fought war with Montenegro He said while he was hosting the president of Montenegro. Montenegro had been a member-state in [[the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia}} at the time.


 * Assholes should stop accusing me After he was asked if he had ever been working for Yugoslavian intelligence agency UDBA.


 * I wasn't in Haag testyfing against Croatia. Later he admitted he did


 * My wife is Ukranian. { His wife is Serb.


 * I don't have a bag of cement, hardly a cement factory. Two days later papers published documents that his doughter is majority stock-holder in Croatia's biggest cement-factory.


 * These are not unsourced quotes, these are his controversial (alleged) statements. There are no sources here whether he did say these things or not. Admiral Norton (talk) 13:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * My wife is Ukranian. -- in this article in croatian this quote is mentioned, in following context - president Mesić in visit to Ukrain mentions Ukrainian descent of his wife with words roughly translated "My wife, accompanying me on this voyage, draws her roots from Ukrain". So this is his statement, and I'll correct this fact in article as well!  Vladimirko (talk) 07:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Did he perhaps mean my wife is (a Serb) from Krajina? The transliteration could have mixed up the two.132.162.84.166 (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Vesti Online says the following about his wife: "U vreme dok ga je treslo jugoslovenstvo Stipe se oženio Milkom Dudunić, iz sela Slabinja, kod Kostajnice. Znao je, naravno, da je Milka Srpkinja ali mu to tada nije smetalo. Problemi su nastali u vreme raspada Jugoslavije. Tada je Tuđman, uz ostale fašističke izjave, javno obznanio da njegova žena Ankica, "srećom, nije ni Židovka ni Srpkinja". Uviđajući koliko je to važno Stjepan Mesić je izjavio da je njegova žena Ukrajinka. Oni u Slabinji nisu mogli da veruju šta čuju. Kakva crna Ukrajina? Svi Dudunići su Srbi, a veći deo te nekada velike porodice skončao je u logoru Jasenovac.  Iz Slabinje je u Jasenovcu smrt našlo gotovo pola sela a među stradalima čak 88 mališana, dece. Troje Dudunića, starosti od četiri do sedam godina, ubijeno je u Jasenovcu: Miloš (7) Petar (6) i Nada stara samo tri godine." (Link).--Z oupan  21:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

What is this monkey look-alike? Vandalism! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.198.219.22 (talk) 11:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced statements on Mesic´s origin
This quote is not supported by any source: "It is known that all families Mesic in this region were Gypsies, from which it follows that he is a member of the Roma minority, which confirms many people the region, who knew his family." It therefore should either be based on a reliable source or should be taken out of the article until a source for this claim has been added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Be1981 (talk • contribs) 14:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I tagged at is as dubious to give editors a chance to corroborate this with sources but if something reliable doesn't come up to support this claim it shall be removed.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 22:53, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Stjepan Mesić, orders and medals
Moldova: Order of the Republic. Source: http://www.timpul.md/articol/prietenia-enigmatica-dintre-presedintele-voronin-si-stjepan-mesic-679.html

Ukraine: Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise First Class. Sources: http://joanerges.livejournal.com/652996.html and http://www.sriu.hr/dumki%20z%20dunaju/Dumki_z_Dunaju9.pdf

Russia: Jubilee Medal "60 Years of Victory in the Great Patriotic War 1941–1945" Source: http://www.utro.ru/articles/2005/05/09/435781.shtml Medal of Pushkin. Source: http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_02_20/Lidera-Russkojazichnoj-Ukraini-nagradili-medalju-Pushkina/

Hungary: Grand Cross with Chain of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Hungary. Sources: http://archive-hu.com/hu/s/solyomlaszlo.hu/2012-10-10_402636_2/K%C3%B6zt%C3%A1rsas%C3%A1gi_Eln%C3%B6ki_Hivatal/ and http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Magyar_%C3%89rdemrend_nagykeresztje_a_l%C3%A1nccal

Kazakhstan: Order Dostyk First Class. Source: http://www.all-docs.ru/index.php?page=7&vi1=101328.000

Tajikistan: Order Ismoili Somoni First class.

Qatar: Necklace of Independence. Sources: http://www.piosec.com/egypt/print.php?news_id=108302&type=news and http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.aspx?storyid=1093245288

Romania: Sash of the Order of the Star of Romania, Sources: http://www.monitoruljuridic.ro/act/decret-nr-217-din-2-iunie-2000-privind-conferirea-ordinului-steaua-romaniei-in-grad-de-colan-emitent-presedintele-romaniei-publicat-22688.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Star_of_Romania#Sash_rank

Kosovo: Gold Medal of Independence of Kosovo. Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/9/Srbija/419611/Mesi%C4%87+-+%22heroj%22+nezavisnosti+Kosova

Chile: Order of Merit Grand Cross with Collar. Sources: http://www.embassyofchile.se/espanol/noticias/Chile%20en%20la%20Prensa%20Internacional%2017%20de%20julio%20de%202008.pdf and http://dalje.com/en-croatia/president-mesic-receives-order-of-merit-from-chile/164808  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.187.226 (talk) 12:54, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

18th President of Croatia?
Also, in modern day Croatia presidents are counted since the independence of the nation, so Mesić is indeed the 2nd president. Even if you count the presidents from 1945 (which again there is no reason for that) it is doubtfull that he is the 18th since SR Croatia had a collective leadership and prior 1945 there were other state posts that were equivalent to the modern day president (like the Ban). There is also no source that confirms that he is the 18th head of state. That is why I will remove this footnote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.229.161 (talk) 17:34, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

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