Talk:Stone Temple Pilots/Archive 1

The statement
"STP's five albums have sold over 170 million copies in the United States alone" is absurd. Someone cite that, or correct that...


 * Good job that was changed. The current figures aren't referenced, and I don't believe that the worldwide figure is reliable. Can anyone reference this? Kristmace (talk) 16:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Stop the edit war about whether STP played "Hard Rock" or "Rock". If you guys can't decide, wouldn't "Rock" cover both?
Seriously. Its getting a bit old. Let's debate here, on the talk page, rather than in the article.--PabloMartinez 13:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That's why I keep changing it back to rock. Rock covers hard rock, grunge, and alternative rock.  But then we get editors changing it to hard rock as if that were their primary genre, anbd then it gets further complicated when someone makes it "hard rock/alternative rock".  For the intro, we just need to keep it simple.  WesleyDodds 02:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Messed up
I can't make head or tails of what happened when, but the current state is messed up :( Do a Ctrl-F "cock" to see what I mean. Also the picture. And so on.

Wow... This whole page is really horrible. Somebody needs to do some work...

Grunge group?
Hello, i suggest that STP be removed from the Grunge group category it is currently in right now mainly because they weren't really a grunge group though they arguably fashioned themseleves on their debut album as such. these guys were from LA and as time progressed, showed that they were really a hard rock band what with their hooks and tight song structure. 210.4.28.159 13:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

it seems that the story as it stands now skips from 1997 to 2003. does anyone know what happened then? apparently something, they released two albums. Iriefrank 05:59, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I fleshed it out to show that they existed between 1997 and 2003. DaveTheRed 02:12, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

STP Motor Oil?
I'm new to this rubric, so please be patient if I've done something wrong. As far as the name goes, for "Stone Temple Pilots" it might take a precise interview with a specific memory to get it. The only alternative theory I have to offer is to note the wacky UFO theories of Erich von Däniken, who believed that stone sculptures such as this one - http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w195/silviawadhwa/astronaut-diagram.jpg represented an ancient astronaut. Thus, a "Stone temple pilot". I don't know whether it was a producer or one of the band members, but it seems to be obscure enough to be the origin. Rosscaldwell (talk) 23:07, 12 January 2009 (UTC)rosscaldwell  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosscaldwell (talk • contribs) 23:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

The line "Wanting to keep the band's initials, they came up with Stone Temple Pilots, after seeing the STP Motor Oil Company logo" makes no sense. How does motor oil inspire that name? And from what I've heard, the motor oil had nothing to do with it. -- LGagnon 05:54, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, here it says that that their producer influenced them to pick "Stone Temple Pilots" because it sounded cool.
 * http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/whatsup/whatsup.cgi?s=namelyspeaking&a=0601_stp&type=
 * How about it? --Iriefrank
 * This link mentions the motor oil (try google for more, obviously) http://www.ticketspecialists.com/concert/stone_temple_pilots_tickets.htm --thealliedhacker

I don't have it with me to do proper citations, but there was a fan book made soon after Tiny Music... (or maybe after Purple, I forget now) that came with an interview cd and such. It's a great product for you fans, look into it. Anyways, it does cover the evolution of the band name, and to pull from memory after they were declined the name "Mighty Joe Young" (which they wanted in reference to having memories of watching the older movie by that name), they decided that they liked the initials STP. The reason, again per my memory of reading the book I don't have on hand (I can get it later), was that the oil company would give out promo stickers and, per one of the DeLeos, "it was bitchin' to have an STP sticker on your bike when we were young", or something along those lines. They started off as Shirley Temple's Pussy, got complaints. They moved on to Stinky Toilet Paper, and then they decided this made for bad marketing. With no reference in the book to anything of pertaining to stereos or piracy, they then settled on Stone Temple Pilots, which came ex nihilo during a brain-storming session.--Sethomas 00:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't easily swallow the evolution of the band's name. Any kind of citations, even images of early concert fliers, demo CD covers, etc. would go a long way toward changing the stated history of the naming and renaming history of STP from what really sounds like confused or combined urban myth to an interesting  irrefutably factual story.  Although another contributor to the talk mentioned the name Shirley Temples Pussy, I would really, especially as an outsider, want some backup to prove that one—citation of an article somewhere, a book, whatever.  Not that I distrust anyone, just that I've seen too many examples of non-verifiable word-of-mouth stories become official history.  If the story is here, it should be official and correct and backed up.  At this point there is no backup whatsoever to this naming history.


 * peterr 14:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The reference to Shirley Temple's Pussy is true. Not sure about Stinky Toilet Paper, but is was most likely just a name tossed around when they changed their name. Like many early 90s grunge bands, STP was playing clubs and bars. Because of the genre, it was not uncommon for a band to have a less than polite name. That was fine when you were local, but not so much if you wanted a major label or radio to brand you. Nobody knows about Shirley Temple's Pussy, because they changed their name before releasing "Core." How do I know this? Did I go to an early STP concert? No, BUT, Eddie Vedder mentioned them at a concert held at "The Off Ramp" in Seattle, when Pearl Jam played a secret concert there on October 1993. It was just one of those names you don't forget...

After...After...etc.
Stone Temple Pilots (abbreviated STP) was a popular rock band, formed in 1990, after Scott Weiland and Robert DeLeo met at a Black Flag concert in Long Beach, California, after discovering they were dating the same woman.

This is not really good writing. The rest seems like it was pulled from the same fan book with whole sentences intact. Objectivity fails in bold:

In October of that year, suggestive pictures of Weiland and Courtney Love surfaced and, luckily for Weiland, Hustler publisher Larry Flynt refused to publish the pictures.

Overall this is just too subjective and I don't believe some of the things stated, like how STP came about its name. I can't argue that the rest of the information is bad, but it needs to be presented in a more dispassionate, professional tone. STP deserves better. (Completely subjective statement there I admit. But hey, we're talking about STP!)

peterr 10 September 05

Tumble In The Rough
I can't beleive Tumble In The Rough was forgot on the singles list. I added it.

Xanarki 16 September 05

Black Flag concert in 1990?
How could they meet at Black Flag's concert? The band disbanded in 1986!

No, they formed in '86. Tezkag72 (talk) 22:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops. Never mind. Tezkag72 (talk) 22:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Pretty Penny
Was on Purple, not Tiny Music. Too lazy to investigate further and correct it myself.

STP
pretty penny was on purple.

this is a dictionary. i understand they toured as shirley temples pussy for awhile. why not include it,?

Caleb Parks 11:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Though generally not regarded as a metal band, I believe that the band's style on the album No. 4 is more metallic than hard rock. For example, the song "Down" is much heavier than track that Stone Temple Pilots ever released. Because of this, I am including heavy metal with their styles. It is probably best just to call them a band rather than "hard rock" or rock so that debate ends.


 * That's a POV observation; it's not citable and therefore we don't have to label STP as heavy metal in the article. WesleyDodds 02:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

"Black Flag concert in 1987"
This isn't possible. Black Flag broke up in 1986.

yeah this is correct one source is called matts music page hardly a reliable source its original research and the ticket site is also shady im trying to match what the ticket site is saying in there bio to another site but im having no luck unless i find another source or somebody else finds a site the can collaborate the story that source can be challanged and removed plus it has fasle info since black flag broke up early 86--Wikiscribe (talk) 02:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

but the year has changed it says 1986 now one time 1987 before that 1990 lol but the shady sources stil cite the lates 80's--Wikiscribe (talk) 02:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite with references
Apparently the biggest concern with this article is that it doesn't have any references. Not having written it all, I can't vouch for the validity of its content. If some other users approve, I'll completely rewrite the page, with references, based on the 30+ magazine articles I have access to written about the band. Earliest is from 1992, latest is from 2006, so there's a lot of information in them from all points of the band's history. And they're from fairly well known magazines like Rolling Stone etc. TheDukey 07:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheDukey (talk • contribs) 07:30, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Controversy
Years ago, the Stone Temple Pilots were often accused of ripping off Pearl Jam. This controversy should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.168.18 (talk) 10:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, any sources for this? Tezkag72 (talk) 21:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Documentary
STP filmed and began work on a documentary for their final release Shangri la de da there should be some mention of that if sources other than youtube can be found and used. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5s4pVE-2xQ

Charting Songs
Someone keeps on changing the "Charting Songs" chart to show that numerous STP songs charted on the Billboard Hot 100. "Sour Girl" is the only STP song to have charted on the Hot 100 (at #78) so keep it that way! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jampilot (talk • contribs) 17:19, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Post-grunge?
STP sounds nothing like those bands. Creed, Nickelback, Three Days Grace, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.135.215 (talk) 02:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Psychadelic Rock Not an appropriate genre for the group. They had elements of it in their sound, however, they were by no means a psychadelic rock band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.67.143.18 (talk) 18:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Years active?
I thought that they formed in 1990, not 1986. Doesn't it say that later in the article?

Tezkag72 (talk) 22:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Eddie Vedder
Plush is the ONLY song that sounds like Eddie Vedder. It's not wrth nothing the similarities of Scott's voice just because of that one song. That's like saying Freddie Mercury ripped off Robert Plant's voice, and Jim Morison ripped off Elvis's voice, as well as Axl Rose ripped off Stephen Tyler's voice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.222.97 (talk) 17:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction
These two quotes seem to contradict each other:

"The band reunited in 2008 after Weiland split from Velvet Revolver, kicking off the tour at the Rock on the Range festival in Columbus, Ohio. The band is planning to begin recording their sixth studio album in November."

"After STP's reunion tour, Weiland is planning on releasing his second solo album, Happy In Galoshes, on November 25 and will begin a solo tour to support what will be his first solo record since 1998."

After their 2008 tour, are they going to start producing their next album or will Weiland be going on tour? I don't see how both can happen at the same time. NorthernThunder (talk) 09:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Music Samples
I really think we should add some samples to this articles, i have uploaded the sample for Trippin' on a Hole, if someone wishes to add it here it'll be apreciated. I'll upload some more samples in the future. Cheers -- MakE  shout! 03:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The "Buy This" Album?...
This Album doesnt exist! The one place it has been found is on Best buy.com. It has the EXACT same songs as "Thank You", it doesnt make sence! And on the Stone temple Pilots website under "Discography" it makes no mention of such album! So stop putting it on here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.27.17 (talk) 01:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It exists here, with a track listing that has nothing to do with Thank You: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1927831&skuId=9113443&type=product Keraunoscopia (talk) 00:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It exists, yes, in the loosest sense; as an exclusive to a single retail chain. I'd rate this sort of thing up (or down) there with bootlegs and promo CDs.  It doesn't warrant a mention on the main page and should certainly not count as a "compilation" in STP's discog article. Tarc (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Billboard
The original lead-in stated that STP had 15 top ten singles, six of which were #1. This was in the same sentence as Billboard's name, so it makes sense that the Top Ten referred to was Billboard's. Hunting for verifiable references, I could not find any third-party sources, so I used Billboard's website, which has entirely different numbers and isn't necessarily up-to-date (or accurate?) with non-recent information (according to the poorly sourced Billboard article on Wiki, there were changes made in the mid-90s to the charting procedures). So... the current lead-in says 10 top ten (and that's based on the "alternative songs" selection on the website; see the citation provided in the article) and NO #1s! Feel free to change it with reliable sources. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  07:11, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I reverted the original information—I did a little digging and I guess Billboard keeps a tight lid on their information, so the source I found (still used as a citation for Purple reaching #1) can't verify the 15 top ten and 6 #1s. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  10:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Black Flag
There are dozens upon dozens of articles on the net that I keep coming across mentioning that they met at a Black Flag concert in 1986, but I have yet to see any article or interview quote anyone on this, which makes it, as far as I'm concerned, unverifiable conjecture that's become apocryphal. But I've found an interview here where Weiland says, "'We met in Tenders Barroom, a kind of youth center in L.A. I was queueing for a beer and so was Robert. Cheers! We started talking and it turned out he played bass, and I told him that I had played in a couple of bands. On top of that, it appeared that we liked the same kind of music." He also debunks (somewhat) the myth of dating the same girl as Robert simultaneously. (For the record, according to an online Black Flag touring schedule, they were performing in LA several times throughout the year. This doesn't mean Robert and Scott actually met at one of the concerts.)  According to WP:BLP policy, I will be altering the phrasing to include Weiland's quote. – Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  03:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Publishing deal
News on a new publishing deal can be mentioned in the 2009 section: – Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  05:47, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Universal Music Publishing Group Sign New Global Deal With Stone Temple Pilots

Awards Section
The awards section could be vastly improved. Someone should insert charts to make it look better. Check out the awards section on the Alice In Chains page, it looks great. STP's should have that type of quality too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jampilot (talk • contribs) 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree; a lot of work went into the AiC article (obviously, it's been featured). I would love to see STP's article be raised to this level. I started planning the article re-write back before Christmas using Nirvana's article as a template, and was collecting interviews and books to check out from the library — but then I got busy in real life. STP deserves it. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  04:07, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I originally added the Awards section, but it seems that someone has removed the Nominations earned by STP. I don't understand how nominations are not relevant enough for inclusion. NorthernThunder (talk) 23:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have a general date as to when you added the section, or when it was removed? We could locate it and reinstate it. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  23:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

You Can't Drive Me Away
According to hitflix, this unreleased song is being released on Volume 2 of the True Blood series' soundtrack. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  20:43, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

lip-synch
"Many fans at the show noted that after he hit the ground, there was no thumping sound from the mic". Who wrote that? On any video about the incident I've seen on Youtube, you can clearly hear the "thumping sound", even the ones referenced in the article, plus after he gets out from the "hole", he drops the megaphone he was using while recitating the "you gotta get away" part of the song and, as expected, that part doesn't sound distorted. That's, for me, enough proof of not being any "lip-synch" there, plus the vocals have a lot of "defects" common in live performances (volume and pitch differences, etc.) which would in no way make sense to be there if they were pre-recorded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.211.136.51 (talk) 00:09, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't recall the exact terminology for the equipment but many bands have what I believe is called a multiplexer (possibly also called "looping"? but I can't find a reference) that operates as sort of a running soundtrack in live performances, either to make the band sound "larger" than its instruments would be by themselves or to duplicate the addition of other instruments or artists that appear in an original studio recording that would be impractical to tour with for a variety of reasons. (I've personally seen performances by groups like White Zombie and Dread Zeppelin in their Bee Gees phase that would be impossible without such enhancements to recreate complex studio recordings- it's a good thing) When a mishap or miscue occurrs onstage this usually runs on and this gives the mistaken impression that the artists really weren't giving a live performance, which is hardly the truth at all. I'm sure that's all that went down in this instance. Possibly relevant- one thing that should never be forgotten is that the drummer ALWAYS leads the band, everyone else follows him. So when a singer or guitarist goofs, don't expect to see everyone else stop and wait. As a guitarist once I figured that out it was so much easier to stay in time. LOL. Batvette (talk) 22:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The deletion notice
The deletion notice seems to be a mistake, as it appears the person who created it attemted to tag the redirect page Shirley temple's pussy (uh, no need to click that as it redirects to the STP-page). And since that was the thing tagged, it appears you cannot reach the AfD-page from the notice on the main article, so here it is. Since this appears to be a mistake I'd suggest the deletion notice be removed by a speedy keep, but I'm not sure how to procede or who to talk to. Hst20 (talk) 00:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The AfD has been deleted and the redirect nominated at RfD (where it should have been in the first place), see Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 April 14. Thryduulf (talk) 10:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

The ol' genre debate
Most band talk pages are brimming with heated genre debates, but I was surprised to see in the archives that there really wasn't much of one going on. However, at this moment, Grunge, Hard rock,  Neo-psychedelia,  Psychedelic rock, and Alternative rock are listed in the infobox. Because this is an encyclopedia and not an opinion-focused forum, I think it's fair to say that the genres listed should be removed unless they are supported by reliable third-party sources. The infobox should be limited to the main blanket genres for the band; extraneous or song-specific genres, if cited properly, can be included within the body of the article. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ talk  21:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I removed the Grunge genre since I am not finding a reliable source that specifies them as such. There are a lot of sources that talk about the genre label being slapped onto the band in an accusing manner, but this doesn't make them grunge.  My understanding is that the DeLeos struggled with the "rip off" accusations, which obviously led to the change in their sound.  So is Core grunge or not?  I'd rather there were a consensus (as opposed to a vote) to whether the genre should be included or not.  In my opinion, the grunge genre would be more of an insult to STP's proven integrity as a unique band.  In addition, Core doesn't have "apathetic or angst-filled lyrics," but are rather political or socially influenced. – Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  07:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Grunge was re-added (which is fine obviously) by an IP citing Allmusic.com as the source. I contest the source as tertiary and unreliable that has diluted its reliability by tagging Stone Temple Pilots with a slew of genres, which are as follows: Hard Rock, Alternative Pop/Rock, Grunge, Alternative/Indie Rock, Contemporary Pop/Rock, Post-Grunge.  This seems to be blanketing nearly all of the band's songs — for example, the genre I've seen listed previously, "psychedelic rock," would describe several of their songs, but not the band's holistic genre. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  09:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Anti Grunge From a 1993 interview, "Although STP takes pains to distance itself from the grunge groups (Weiland jokingly labels himself a "new wave Renaissance guy"), the singer also admits his band is riding the grunge wave." –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  01:20, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * an insult to STP's proven integrity as a unique band
 * I'm sure every band ever would love to be able to claim a unique genre all to their own. Grunge was more than wearing plaid, not shaving and having angsty lyrics hinting at desire of suicide from depression of living in Seattle's dreary weather. While they are not simply grunge and should see inclusion in other genres as well, they were San Diego's answer to Nirvana and Alice in Chains when KIOZ (san diego's hard rock FM channel, 102.1 in those days now at 105.3Mhz with an improved transmitter location) was giving them heavy rotation. Grunge may have fallen out of favor as a label for the industry but it's disingenuous to now claim their sound was not firmly entrenched in that movement that was more anti-metal hair band than anything else.
 * It definately had the same stripped down feel with full distortion, chunky riffs, plodding beat, and lack of classical music inspired sweep arpeggios and self indulgent wheedle deedle solos that went with hairspray and spandex looks that the industry dumped overnight when Nirvana released "Nevermind". At that point five year olds watching Beavis and Butthead were singing Poison songs, heavy metal had become a cartoonish parody of itself and the musical integrity of rock and roll was being questioned. STP was one of the bands that galvanized grunge as a force to be reckoned with by having a commercially accessible appeal most others lacked. Was their sound unique? No. Was their music breaking new ground? In retrospect I think that's a fair accolade. It's still not enough to say they weren't within several established genres, grunge was definately one and if someone feels that is a negative label that's another issue that really is outside the scope of this article. My personal take as a San Diegan is that if grunge drove from Dago to Vegas in a 60's Cadillac on an all niter and stopped to play at the first smoke filled, tacky velvet upholstered gin joint it found on the edge of the strip, well, that's their unique genre. If you can name it they can have it.Batvette (talk) 22:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

STP is a Post-grunge band(just like Creed  Candlebox  Matchbox  Twenty Collective Soul etc) and one of the first to jump on the bandwagon in 1992--Wikiscribe (talk) 06:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

STP never played psychedelic rock.95.106.105.106 (talk) 08:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Timeline
Is the timeline picture really necessary? Usually this is reserved for bands with several former members in order to visually keep track of the changes throughout the years. It's not so difficult to process the idea of a band who literally had one lineup change in 20 years with a replacement singer, who technically goes by a different name now and may have to anyway with lawsuits pending. You might as well just draw four straight lines. If nobody objects, I think it's unnecessary and shouldn't be there. Things like the hiatus and album years can be seen in the discography page and the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.192.215 (talk) 21:53, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Chester Bennington and New Line-Up
Do we even know he's officially the new frontman, after one song and a performance? Seems like we're jumping the gun here by listing him as such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.226.77.8 (talk) 21:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a confirm by him in a videointerview here --SuperVirtual (talk) 22:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.226.77.8 (talk) 00:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For some reason it sounds like BS to me, the song of their website says "Stone Temple Pilots and Chester Bennington". Sounds like a marketing technique to me and probably Weiland is still a part of the band -- @ 23:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * As you can see, since the time of your posting, you were utterly wrong. HammerFilmFan (talk) 19:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

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