Talk:Support programs for OS/360 and successors

Rearranged
I re-arranged this article a bit today.
 * moved ICKDSF into the "System Utilities" category. There seemed no reason to give this one its own category, especially as it is a rather obscure utility.
 * moved IDCAMS into the "Dataset Utilities" category. There seemed no point to having a special category for VSAM utilities, when this is the only item in the category.  And labeling it 'VSAM' isn't accurate: it isn't just for VSAM files; it works fine for non-VSAM datasets also.  T-bonham (talk) 09:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Did some more changes today.
 * I added a prologue giving a bit of history on these utilities, and including a list of the common DDs used in them.
 * Then I removed information about these DDs, that was duplicated in the section for each utility. I only left info that was different & specific to a utility.
 * I also removed stuff that was just common JCL info, such as statements that EXEC stepnames could be any name, or that DDs could be in any order within a step. This stuff is already covered in the article on Job Control Language.
 * Also some minor reformatting like making use of Wiki lists, and putting all the examples in boxes. T-bonham (talk) 08:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

IEFBR15
I removed IEFBR15 from this page yesterday. Despite its name, it isn't an IBM utility program, any more than the ISPF PDS-compression hack that was generally known as "IKJJB007" was part of TSO. Somebody just named it that way. Tcb restored it today, saying "IEFBR15 is utility program. It doesn't shipped by IBM but it can be compiled and used on IBM mainframe system." By that logic, every assembler program ever written is a utility program, but as any old-time sysprog can tell you, there was a specific list (which reminds me, I need to add IEHDASDR and the others).

This article is about the MVS utility programs - it's called IBM mainframe utility programs and it starts "IBM Mainframe Utility Programs are supplied with IBM mainframe operating systems such as MVS to carry out various tasks associated with datasets etc." - and IEFBR15 isn't one of them. So I've removed the IEFBR15 entry again, and it should stay gone. It still has it's own page, at (of course!) IEFBR15. RossPatterson 01:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Use of SORT/MERGE utility (in JCL)
Deleted. Wikipedia is not a tutorial board.T-bonham (talk) 00:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

updates
I added a divider before the linker & COBOL compiler sections, to clarify that these are not utilities supplied with the OS. I called them "support programs"; not sure if that is the best wording. Any suggestions?

Also, I made a few changes in those items: T-bonham 02:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Clarified that the linker works with an object deck from any language, not just COBOL.
 * Clarified that this is just the current COBOL compiler, there have been many others over the years.

IEBUPDTE
The previous version seemed to imply that IEBUPDTE came from the UNIX patch utility. Which is ridiculous, since that was written 20 years after IEBUPDTE! So I rewrote it to clarify that. Also fixed the link to go directly to UNIX patch instead of UNIX in general. T-bonham 00:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The comparison to patch is still misleading, because IEBUPDTE uses line numbers to establish context rather than matching substrings of the text; patch can't do what IEBUPDTE does and IEBUPDTE can't do what patch does.


 * Another point of confusion is the name. The reason for the peculiar abbreviation is that an older utility had the name IEBUPDAT and coexisted with IEBUPDTE.


 * Finally, some examples of the control input would greatly clarify the article. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 18:13, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

There was more than on IBM mainframe and there's more than one IBM mainframe operating system
The title of this article is too general for its topic; there have been several unrelated IBM mainframes and on the current product line there are several unrelated operating systems. I propose changing the title to MVS utility programs and service aids. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 20:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

IEBIMAGE
The description of IEBIMAGE confused special cases with general traits. Load modules are not images, although images can be stored in load modules. IEBEDIT supports more than the 3800, and it generates more types of images than just bit maps. See for details. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Possibly not vandalism
The line containing INREC and OUTREC may have been a disrupted edit rather than deliberate vandalism. Those two statements define remappings of the sort input and output, and the author may have intended describing them. If that is the case, would it have been TMI had he added a complete description? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 21:16, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Prefix origin(s)
I have long wondered about the three-letter prefixes used by (almost) all of these utilities. The set of folklore and urban-legend explanations that I've heard since the 1970s is large and self-contradictory. If anyone could add a section documenting the origin(s) of IEB, IEF, IEH, etc. -- with reasonably-authoritative references, please! -- that would be appreciated. 206.205.52.162 (talk) 01:22, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The OS/360 Messages and Codes manual, and equivalents for OS/VS and later replacements, included a table of prefixes. There were some arcane rules as to how IBM assigned them, but IBM did not always follow its own rules, e.g., the prefix IBM. Even if it is not TMI, the description of prefixes would belong in OS/360 and successors‎, not here. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:05, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

DFSMS
There seems to be some confusion in this article and in MVS about what DFSMS is. DFSMS started as a program product to replace Data Facility Product (DFP), and as such its DFSMSdfp component includes all of the utility programs that had been in DFP, as well as most of the access methods. The support for managed storage is a small part of DFSMS; in fact, until you configure and activate SMS DFSMS runs in a non-SMS mode essentially the same as its predecessors. Even when SMS is active, particular datasets can be non-SMS, and utilities like IEHMOVE can be used just as they were in OS/360. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Service aids?
Should the article discuss IBM service aids, e,g,, AMASPZAP? While they are documented in a separate manual, they are as much utility programs as the programs documented in Utilities, and have a better claim to the title than the binder, compilers and the link editor. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Chatul, as you say, in IBMspeak they aren't utilities, and I guess this article is of fairly restricted interest (ah, the memories it brings back). So can argue it either way. But we're a general encyclopedia, and as superzap doesn't seem to be covered elsewhere, yes, perhaps redirect IBM mainframe service aids here and expand the article scope. Good idea. Andrewa (talk) 03:41, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Rem unreferenced tag
Added in 2008 diff this tag seems to refer to an issue since resolved, so in accordance with Help:Maintenance template removal I'm removing it. Andrewa (talk) 03:34, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Appropriate name?
The title IBM mainframe utility programs, does not accurately reflect the contents, for several reasons.
 * 1) The programs listed apply only to OS/360 and successors, not to, e.g., DOS/360 and successors, Transaction Processing Facility, VM (operating system).
 * 2) The article includes programs that IBM does not classify as utilities while omitting such important programs as AMASPZAP, LOADER and SMP/E.

Before adding a template, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a more accurate title. Possibly Support programs for OS/360 through MVS? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 20:52, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 31 October 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved   SITH   (talk)   19:24, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

IBM mainframe utility programs → Support programs for OS/360 and successors – The programs listed apply only to OS/360 and successors, not to, e.g., DOS/360 and successors, Transaction Processing Facility, VM (operating system); The article includes programs that IBM does not classify as utilities while omitting such important programs as AMASPZAP, LOADER[a] and SMP/E. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. В²C ☎ 18:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support, Your argument makes sense.Peter Flass (talk) 03:23, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * IBM documents support programs in several different categories, and their guidelines are not always obvious:
 * Assemblers and compilers
 * Service Aids, e.g., AMASPZAP
 * Utilities, e.g., IEBCTRIN
 * Miscellaneous, e.g., IEWL


 * IBM has a naming convention that reflect this categorization in the first three characters, e.g.,
 * AMA, service aids for OS/VS2
 * HMA, service aids for OS/VS1
 * IBC, stand-alone utilities
 * IEB, dataset utilities
 * IEF, Scheduler
 * IEH, system utilities
 * IEM, PL/I
 * IEW, Program Management
 * IMA, service aids
 * Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Added bitsavers. for GC24-3465-8_DOS_and_TOS_Utility_Programs_R26.1_Aug73.pdf DOS and TOS Utility Programs to article @ External Links'' Pi314m (talk) 08:24, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I reverted that because the article does not describe any utilities outside of the OS/360 line. Are you willing to take on the task of providing wiki text for the support programs in, e.g., DOS, TOS, VM, TPF? Given the effort involved, it would make sense to have a separate page for each OS and to consider a merge when all of them are in place. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 22:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Compiler and assembler sections
To start with, I believe that Assemblers should be a subsection of Compilers. That said, OS/360 came with the following compilers
 * ALGOL
 * ALGOL F


 * IETASM
 * Assembler E, 360S-AS-036


 * IEUASM
 * Assembler F, 360S-AS-037


 * IEPCBL00
 * COBOL E,360S-CO-503


 * IEQCBL00
 * COBOL F, 360S-CB-524


 * IKFCBL00
 * COBOL U
 * IBM OS Full American National Standard COBOL Versions 1 and 2


 * IEJFAAA0
 * FORTRAN E, 360S-FO-092


 * IEYFORT
 * FORTRAN G, 360S-FO-520


 * IEKAAOO
 * FORTRAN H, 360S-FO-500


 * IEMAA
 * PL/I F, 360S-NL-6l


 * IESRPG
 * Report Program Generator (RPG), 360S-RG-038

OS/VS replaces Assembler E and F with Assembler XF and drops all other compilers in favor of separately ordered program products.


 * 5734-AS1
 * Assembler H


 * 5734-CBl
 * IBM OS Full American National Standard COBOL Version 3


 * 5734-CB2
 * IBM OS Full American National Standard COBOL Version 4


 * 5734-FO1
 * CODE AND GO FORTRAN


 * 5734-FO2
 * FORTRAN IV (G1)


 * 5734-FO3
 * FORTRAN IV (H EXTENDED)


 * 5734-PL1
 * PL/I Optimizing Compiler

The 5734-xxx program products could run on OS/360 but the 5740-xxx products required OS/VD or VM. All of these have been replaced by more recent program products, e.g., Assembler H Version 2, HLASM, VSFORTRAN, Enterprise compilers. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 21:38, 28 March 2024 (UTC)