Talk:Susan Ivanova

Untitled
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any mention of Ivanova's grudge against Garibaldi due to his (percieved) betrayal of Sheridan. --R.G. 03:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know the significance of her single earring when in uniform? If so, it should be added to the article.
 * The earing was one of a pair, the other of which she gave to her brother, who died wearing it during the Earth-Minbari war. --April Arcus 04:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Name
Stating that Susan's name would be Susan Andreevna (should actually be Andreyevna) because her father was Andrei (correctly Andrey) is very inaccurate. Susan cannot possibly be a name of an ethnic Russian (or a Russian-born Jew), because Russian names have endings according to the gender (a good example is Aleksandra feminin, Aleksandr masculin, you can see analogy in some English names as well, like Paula - Paul). There is a corresponding Russian name Susanna (pronounced in Russian Soo-sahn-nuh), that would be a good name for Ivanova. But American writers are often too arrogant (or too cheap?) to ask an ethnic Russian's opinion on Russian names (a good example is Tom Clancy, his Russian characters' names are a total mess), so Susan it is. Susan (which a Russian would pronounce Soo-sahn) would be an (unexisting) male name.

Because of all this, "Susan Andreyevna" would sound for anybody whose native language is Russian fake, phony and just linguistically impossible (even for a Russian who never went to school and is a complete imbecile, I am not talking about PhDs here). Point is, being Russian, Susan would never call herself (when speaking Russian) neither Susan nor Susan Andreyevna. Speaking of herself in English with an American, she would call herself Susan, of course (not "Susan Andreyevna", though), but in Russian -- Susanna Andreyevna or just Susanna, assuming that this were the name her parents gave her.

The whole mention of "Susan Andreevna" thing should be edited out. --Rozmysl (talk) 07:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC) (an ethnic Russian)

---

The above argumentation is both subjective and non-universal. In many cases, immigrants adapt their names and those of their children to local spelling and pronunciation in an effort to better integrate or to appear to do so. In other cases, admirers of a different culture have often been known to give their children names from that culture. It is therefore completely plausible that a native Russian might name his daughter Susan, either to fit into an English-speaking community or because he is an anglophile (or he could simply just like that form of the name). It is equally plausible that such a person would nonetheless preserve the tradition of giving his daughter a Russian patronym. Furthermore, the original nationality of Susan Ivanova's mother has never been established, but her name, "Sophie", suggests that she may not have been a native Russian. This opens yet another extremely plausible explanation that the name "Susan" could come from her mother's native language and her patronymic from her father's. Again, this is not uncommon in families where the parents come from different cultures. The argument that a "Susan Andreyevna" could not possibly exist is nothing more than the reflection of one person's personal sense of linguistic aesthetics with no regard for the plethora of real-world counterexamples that could adequately and plausibly explain it.

Sexuality
This is grossly misleading. The only possible relationship with another woman that it has been indicated Ivanova was in was with Talia Winters, and the evidence that this relationship was ever physically consumated is extremely dubious. In fact, they are never seen to kiss or even embrace on screen. This is the only homosexual relationship that B5 has even alluded to.

By contrast, Star Trek has dealt with homosexuality on a number of occasions (putting aside the campy bisexuality of Intendant Kira in the mirror universe) - most notably the DS9 episode "Rejoined", which was far more overt than this, but also (obliquely) in the TNG episode "The Outcast". --April Arcus 04:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point, I have altered this section, and removed the statement that Claudia Christian referred to her character as bisexual until such a time when sources can be found. Dablueeagle 08:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hehe, thanks to whoever it was that fixed my error in the article, where I put "Lyta Alexander" in place of "Talia Winters." Dablueeagle 08:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually this is not the only allusion to homosexual relationships in B5. When Steven and Marcus travel to Mars to recruit help from the resistance, they are booked as newlyweds on their honeymoon. It's played for comedy, but clearly shows that gay marriage is legal on earth in the 2260s.Ninquerinquar 00:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... while I would say that it's true that it never explicitly says that Ivanova and Talia were in a homosexual relationship, it's strongly hinted. If you read the lurker's guide page for Talia's last episode, JMS really intended for that to be there. And then there's the bit in "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" where Ivanova said she thinks she loved her. I don't think, based on the episode and what JMS has said, that the relationship was ever "physically consumated" as you say... however, I don't think that rules out a "homosexual relationship"; I (a male) dated a girl for two years in High School and never got any, but I would still think that it would be a heterosexual relationship. CatherS 00:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

While I don't approve of it, there is a scene in the last episode with Talia where we see Talia awaken and notice that the space next to her is empty. She then tells Susan that she noticed that she left the bed. (Ishvarlan (talk) 06:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC))


 * I think Talia stated when she woke up Ivanova was gone, not specifically saying she was missing from the same bed, but Talia does run her hand where she might have expected Ivanova to be in the bed. None of this proves a thing, and would be conclusions/original research on our part. I bet JMS intended this to be left up for us to decide, though. Kresock (talk) 04:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Judaism
Shouldn't there be a reference in the article to the fact that Ivanova's family had a Jewish background ? 161.24.19.82 19:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. In an episode of the show her uncle visits to (more or less) kick start her towards making peace with her relationship with her father, who had died recently. He advocated a specifically Jewish way to do this. Kresock 20:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible source for additional information
There was an interview with Claudia Christian published in FHM some time around 1997 in which she discussed Ivanova's relationship with Talia. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have a copy any more. But if somebody does, it might help flesh out the section on this a little. JulesH 19:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Coffee in the hydroponics bay
I recall an episode where Ivanova said she arranged to have someone grow coffee for her in hydroponics. Interesting, because I just watched "The Gathering" and Lt. Cmdr. Takashima made the same arrangement! It seemed like Takashima's traits, at least some of them, were transferred to Ivanova. GBC 21:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:B5 ivanova.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Telepathy
Should her P. whatever be mentioned??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by En sabah nur (talk • contribs) 06:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The P-ratings were determined by the PSI Corps, but since Ivonova wasn't trained by them, she doesn't have an official grade. I seem to remember the character telling Sheridan she probably wasn't even a P-1 when she first informed him of her talent.
 * Kresock (talk) 04:04, 2 February 2009 (UTC)