Talk:Swiss Psalm

Psalm in English
Could somone add an English version? Rmhermen 15:50 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Okay, added a translation. For some reason I have not found any English translation of the fourth strophe but for 1-3. Maybe someone can add the fourth strophe. Patrice Neff 16:57 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

the text itself should go on wikisource. dab (&#5839;) 15:38, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry but the english translation is completely incorrect and the context is only about 6% right.

Would Stephanz then please be so kind as to fix the translation if it is unacceptably incorrect? Weatherguy1033 19:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The last verse of the English version is actually quiet amusing, ("You, all-powerfully whale tender, saving!" for "Du, allmächtig Waltender, Rettender!" My guess -> Google translation?). Since this is utter rubbish, I would suggest to just remove it and wait for a proper, hopefully official, translation to come about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.185.199 (talk) 19:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is an english version needed? I've never heard anybody sing it in english, and I don't find it strange, I guess it's normal begause english is not a national language of Switzerland. Have you ever heard the "The Star-Spangled Banner" in russian? I agree with the removal. And when english will become a Swiss national offical language, I'm sure there will be an offical translation... Momet 13:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Momet, this is the English Wikipedia. Star Spangled Banner in Russian would not be relevant, but an English translation of the Swiss Palm is relevant. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Could I propose to use the denomination Romantsch instead of Romansh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.245.83.221 (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

The English version is not a correct translation. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 21:19, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

history translated
I've translated the history section but it needs a good cleanup. I will make a start at this but always good to have another pair of eyes, which is why i like to make small edits-- gives other editors a chance to see it, a monolithic edit sometimes you can't see the meat for the potatoes.

I know this is relatively small but it is quite complicated to translate and we must get it right. Other stuff is a lot easier to do and you breeze through it. With French there is almost a deliberate willingness in what Fowler calls Elegant Variation i.e. using different words to mean the same thing, which of course we don't really do in English so much, and certainly not on English WP (and quite rightly since it sends the reader thinking what's the difference?) So I have tried my best there but some still need discussion which I will do on its talk page, and of course there may be some typos that one doesn't see oneself, especially as I have a new notebook and miss the keys sometimes.mn/

In particular we need to settleI think on consistent use of psalm/hymn/song/tune (except when referring to the tune of God save the queen, where definitely it is the tune and not the song of course). We could perhaps put the details of the tune there but since it is mentioned on that article I am not sure it is necessary.

So, time to wikify and cleanup!

Best wishes, SimonTrew (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Translations
One need not be a polyglot to realize the translations do not pair well and are incongruent: for instance, while the last lines of the German version of the first and second stanzas differ slightly, there is no such subtle variation in the French and Romansh. the English version reports this difference. The Italian version has the two stanzas ending in a completely different manner from each other. Furthermore, the Italian version is completely different from the English translation altogether.

I am not competent enough to provide the four versions and the English translation, but I am more than competent to realize that they need an overhaul and that someone competent enough needs to revise them. As they are, the translations do not match, even when allowing considerable poetic licence.

I regret that I cannot be more useful.

Sapienza (talk) 14:09, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

New "anthem"
Was the quest for the new "anthem" actually a search for an entirely new anthem or simply one for new lyrics for the existing anthem? From the site of the project for a new anthem I can only make up new lyrics on the music of the existing national anthem (and all the unselected proposals used the existing music as well). Tvx1 19:08, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * There have been approaches for both. Recent requests focused on a new text only, but previously there have clearly also been proposals for a completely new anthem. --PaterMcFly talk contribs 17:55, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

About English translation
I think you should translate each all four languages versions as like of the anthem of Belgium. --Propatriamori (talk) 13:14, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Any translations that are added have to be proven to be in the public domain. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:53, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the english translation is unsourced. But apparently it was done by some musician, because it matches the melody, and is not a literal translation (hence also the old english wording). Since it's unsourced and there doesn't seem to be an official english translation, maybe a literal translation would be better? --PaterMcFly talk contribs 17:52, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

French, Italian, Romansh
Disregarding WP:BRD, User:CuteDolphin712 has now twice removed the French, Italian, Romansh texts with edit summaries "Removing French, Italian, and Romansh lyrics as they are rarely used or Not Used" and "From what I've discovered recently, Switzerland only show German lyric. I don't know the rest...but the other languages are rarely sung or used." Those versions are sourced to the Swiss government website. Any assertion along the lines of the argument in the edit summaries must be cited. Even then, the text ought to be kept as encyclopedic content. I'm going to restore the texts until a consensus to remove them is formed. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:58, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * User Michael Bednarzyk (sorry can't spell it right) mentioned there are French, Italian, and Romansh lyrics. How did they exist? I can't find the video anywhere! First, from what I've observed recently, the video only shows German lyrics. Second, I think they are unused.--CuteDolphin712 (talk) 12:35, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Whether you can find videos or not has no bearing on the status of those versions that are sourced to the Swiss government's website. Your assertion that they are unused needs to be reliably sourced. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:27, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, so ... I know like nothing about that statement, and I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me about. Sorry, because I'm a bit lost. I knew it, though.CuteDolphin712 (talk) 07:19, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Copyright of the English translation
While the original version of the lyrics by Leonhard Widmer is definitely public domain, it seems that the English translation is not and so it should probably be deleted. The oldest publication where I found it was the 1997 book German Songs. It cannot be found in any book available in HathiTrust before 1997 either. The other language translations should be probably checked too. -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * BTW: The lyrics have already been deleted twice in English Wikisource as a copyvio. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:17, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

English translations
The English translation may be apparently "copyrighted" but Wikipedia has a fair use policy. You need to translate foreign lyrics on the English Wikipedia into English and other necessary languages. Also, can't we just ask Wikipedians who speak German, French, Italian and/or Romansh (translations of all of those would be great) to translate the lyrics into English for use on Wikipedia? Please add the English translation back. Thanks!

P.S: to be fair several national anthems have copyrighted lyrics and translations yet we still leave them on Wikipedia, why is Switzerland somehow an exception? 49.186.105.237 (talk) 07:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I am afraid that fair use cannot be applied so widely to the whole text of a song according to Non-free content. I am also not convinced about appropriateness of including the whole text into the encyclopaedia article, as such articles should be about the song. See also Quotations allowing quotations of brief excerpts, not of the whole text. In fact this rule should be applied not only to the English translation, but to the German original as well. Full texts are usually added to Wikisource. Swiss anthem is definitely not an exception, so if you know of any other articles violating copyright laws, feel free to tag their problematic content for deletion too. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:04, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If we really need to only have portions of the lyrics, we could just remove all but the two verses of the German/French/Italian/Romansh lyrics and make a free English translation of the first two verses and provide links to Wikisource for the full lyrics. Generally only the first two verses are sung, but it's also good to include the full lyrics and at least one full English translation. 49.186.105.237 (talk) 21:47, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would be an ideal solution. Unfortunately, it seems there is no public domain translation available and so English Wikisource cannot host the full text. But it should be possible to do with the German, French and Italian versions (I think). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:14, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Question
Can I add my own translation (of the French version) to this article? Thiscouldbeauser (talk) 07:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Musical commentary
Thought to add a short musical commentary for the anthem to pay respect to the composition itself:

The Swiss Psalm is a choral composition in E flat major, in the time signature of 3/4 (andante tempo).

- This is based on the sheet music found in the article.

Originally a church hymn, the tune was based on the psalm Diligam te Domine. In 1841, Zwyssig set the text of the Swiss Psalm to the tune of his melody.

- This is taken from here: https://www.nb.admin.ch/snl/en/home/publications-research/dossiers/national-anthem.html Qfwfq&#39;s Qwerty (talk) 11:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)