Talk:Taipan

Untitled
I also think this page should be parted into 2 different pages; one for taipan in general and the second for the coastal taipan alone containing more information only about this particular snake. User:TT100 19:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone think that the content of this article might be better off if it was moved to the individual species' articles? This article on the genus is starting to contain more and more info on the species it contains. Smacdonald (talk) 04:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The book I have (Living Snakes of the World) does not mention Oxyuranus microlepidotus but rather Parademansia microlepidotus (Smooth-scaled snake) which lives in New South Wales and Queensland. RedWolf 06:41, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Parademansia was the old designation before is was properly researched and published in the same genus as the coastal Taipan which also has a cousin in Papua Euc (talk) 23:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

After reading this article, I have some questions. What regions of Australia are Taipans found? Where are Coastal Taipan found? Where are the 'Fierce Snake's found? What is their habitat? How many offspring do they have? How often? What times of year? -- CraigKeogh 06:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Coastal From from Cape York South Along the coast to perhaps new south wales mostly along the coast. Inland mainly in Cooper Creek and Diamantina basins on the Queensland SA border. Fierce snake = Oxyuranus Microlepidota and from one who spends time in the area - they are. Euc (talk) 23:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

This site from the University of Melbourne explains that Taipans are not docile at all, and are in fact quite aggressive. The site also says that the range of the Taipan is from Darwin to Brisbane, mainly along the coast.

I can confirm that [at least the inland] taipans are or can be extremely aggressive. They have a reputation among the locals west of Cairns (north east coast of Australia) for attacking both animals and humans seemingly without reason. I've only ever seen an inland taipan once, and it was in captivity. As soon as we walked into the room, the young snake (maybe 6 months old, about half a metre long and very thin) immediately began striking in our direction, smashing its head over and over into the wall of the glass box, we could see venom poo sliding down the side of the glass and it didn't stop until we left the room. The guy who owned/looked after the snakes said if you stay in there long enough, it will eventually injure itself to the point of bleeding. I've seen coastal taipans a few times in the wild, and while they've never attacked me they also never fled or attempted to hide like most other snakes. Rather they simply watched me to see what I'd do next. Since I was usually at least an hour from any medical help I've always left the area immediately. --Abhi Beckert 08:51, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Can I make a special plea please for clarification of the last para of the introductory section? The first sentence reads inter alia "The coastal taipan (O. scutellatus) is among the third-most venomous land snake in the world ..." - a mess that presumably is the result of multiple edits as you subject experts wrestle with the technical details. The final sentence is "The coastal taipan is often considered to be one of the deadliest species in the world."; a sentence that would be redundant if the first could be fixed. Happy to tidy the english but have no idea what would be least contentious way to express this snake's 'venomous-ness'. Ellayhere (talk) 14:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Pic
Is it possible to get a picture on Wiki. Mike.

Hi Mike, If you would like to upload an image, you have to sign up first. It is very easy and, of course, free. We would really appreciate your image. Thanks --liquidGhoul 14:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I might be able to organize a picture, I know someone who has many snakes in captivity, and he had a young inland taipan last time I visited (over a year ago). Abhi Beckert 08:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I just uploaded a picture of an Inland Taipan into this page. I took this photgraph while on holiday in Australia. The specimen was on display at the Manly Beach Aquarium near Sydney, and this was as close as they would let me get.--Merkurix 16:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Diet
It is NOT specialised to feed on rodents - not unless they got specialised in 200 years, which is about as long as rodents have been in Australia since Europeans introduced them. What did they eat before that?

They are rodent feeders, especially the inland taipan. Australia has an awful lot of native rodents. Australia's not just about marsupials. We have about 196 placental mammals, including native rodents, bats and marine mammals. Smacdonald 04:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Some fallacies in this discussion
I have just read some incorrect information posted as truth.

"Parademansia microlepidota" is old taxonomy. It has since been classified as been a Taipan (Oxyuranus). It occurs in North Eastern SA, North Western NSW and South Western QLD. It is not believed to occur in NT. There are very old, possibly incorrect records of them occuring near the junction of the Murray/Darling river.

Whilst Coastal Taipans are not "docile", they are not an agressive species. No snake is. Coastal Taipans are highly intelligent animals and when provoked, can move with lighting speed and amazing accuracy. They are by far the most dangerous species for a snake handler to work with. In the bush, they will normally be gone without a trace if there is any disturabance.

Abhi Beckert, I suggest you learn more about herpetology before posting. There are no Inland Taipans west of Cairns.

The reason the young Inland Taipan was striking was because it was feeling vulnerable. You would, too, if you were locked in an enclosure. Small pythons will do the same thing. The liquid on the glass would have been saliva. The amount of venom a juvenile Inland Taipan produces (less than 1mg) wouldn't be noticeable.

Taipans are specialised mammal feeders, mainly rodents. Before white man settled, they would prey solely on native animals, now they have a wider selection.
 * This was the only page which Abhi Becket posted, I doubt he/she is still contributing to Wikipedia. If you find any wrong information in the articles (not the talk pages), please change them to the correct info. Thankyou for setting everything straight. --liquidGhoul 08:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I cannot find any information to support that the LD50 scale for venom toxicity is not equally applicable to humans. Due to the dubious authenticity of the statement in the article, I think it should be removed. At the very least it needs a source. Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 11:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * How do you think this would be tested? We can't exactly go around killing humans. What makes you think that mice react the same way as humans do to snake venom? The LD50 is calculated using mice, and this page should certainly make reference to that fact, and suggest that readers interpret the results with caution when extrapolating to humans. Inland taipans are certainly adapted to eat rodents, so there's every reason to think (but admittedly no proof) that their venom is especially effective against rodents. I've put the statement back in and provided a reference for the possibility of a murine bias in inland taipan LD50 results, and a reference for a species of snake that exhibits a taxa-specific increase in venom toxicity. Let me know what you think. Smacdonald (talk) 09:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would assume that toxicity tests could be carried out on primates (or some other animal) which would reveal whether there is a murine bias, and perhaps the extent (the LD50 test does not require mice, although I grant that this is almost invariably the case). Mostly I was just trying to get a reference for this information. In response to your question; I'm not trying to claim that you can extrapolate from mice to men. I did, however, think that it was a stretch to claim that because a snakes diet primarily consists of rodents that its venom was specifically targeted to such. In essence, my complaint is that we should not be adding information about potential murine bias unless there is direct citable evidence to suggest such (not that I don't believe that this is probably the case). I cannot easily check your references. If it refers to the Taipan's venom being particularly deadly to rodents (or a general tendency of the venom of snakes that target rodents to be particularly deadly to rodents), the murine bias comment should stay. If this is not the case, then the comment should really be removed until a source can be found that does indicate that the venom of the Taipan is particularly deadly to mice. Assuming that we leave the article as is, there is another problem. These two lines overlap: "The LD50 figures cannot be directly compared with toxicity in humans, however, as there is considerable variation in results from species to species and a host of environmental variables can further impact the results[4]." and "Calculated LD50 values might not be applicable to non-mammalian species, and may even be inaccurate for mammals other than mice and other rodents."  One of these two lines should go. Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 14:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to add, primarily what I am trying to do here is to ensure that we do not violate the Wikipedia rule No original research.Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 14:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Primate testing with death as an end point is virtually impossible to do nowadays as far as I'm aware (in Australia, at least). I'll summarise the two references for you and you can let me know what you think. Mackessy et al (2006) said that brown tree snakes switch from eating lizards to birds as they get older. This change in diet is accompanied by a change in the toxicity of their venom, with young snakes having venom that is more toxic to lizards than adult snakes. The researchers also found that the snake's venom was not very effective against mice (i.e., you'd need a greater quantity of venom to kill a mouse than to kill a gecko or bird). Wilson (2004) simply states that there may be a murine bias in the venom of the inland taipan. It's a widely held thought, but there's no direct evidence from research done on this snake species. If Wikipedia has a rule that says an article can't contain realistic ideas that aren't confirmed, then we should get rid of it. It's certainly not breaking the 'no original research' concept because it hasn't been researched. Smacdonald (talk) 23:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I found the information related to this issue, and have added a reference. I have removed the comments on murine bias, as I can find no reference to this in relation to the taipan, or snake venom in general. If a reference can be found, please feel free to put it back! Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 08:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

From the original reference, the LD50 of the Coastal Taipan is NOT THE most toxic in the world even to mice. LD50 for Coastal Taipan given as .013 mg/kg but Pseudonaja textilis given as .01 making it quite a bit more toxic. The reference to the new species also contains the toxicity of the longer known. It was Thomas, Séan; Griessel, Eugene. "LD50 Scores for Various Snakes." December 1999. but even this supports the fact that inland, common brown (Pseudonaja textilis) then coastal is the correct order for LD50 in mice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euc (talk • contribs) 00:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

"I cannot find any information to support that the LD50 scale for venom toxicity is not equally applicable to humans" - This is the wrong argument: unless there is evidence to the contrary it is not known whether it is equally applicable or not and therefore it is valid to raise doubt both about whether it is and about whether it isn't. AlexFekken (talk) 07:37, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Change to toxicity scale
From the original reference, the LD50 of the Coastal Taipan is NOT THE most toxic in the world even to mice. LD50 for Coastal Taipan given as .013 mg/kg but Pseudonaja textilis given as .01 making it quite a bit more toxic. The reference to the new species (Ox. temporalis) also contains the toxicity of the longer known species. Closeup pictures on the way in a few days.

It was Thomas, Séan; Griessel, Eugene. "LD50 Scores for Various Snakes." December 1999. but even this supports the fact that inland, common brown (Pseudonaja textilis) then coastal is the correct order for LD50 in mice. Euc (talk) 00:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Red Tanami Taipan
Can somebody knowledgeable here look at Red Tanami Taipan, listed as Oxyuranus carotherensis? It's an article with no references, created by a new editor, and this page doesn't mention the species. Does anyone know anything about it? Rigadoun (talk) 06:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've added a taxobox and a fact tag to the first paragraph where a few things were mentioned which could use citation. Also added an expert request to the head of the article. Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 01:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Improvement?
This article actually says very little about the snake other than the effects of its venom on humans who are bitten by it. I wonder if any herpetologists might fill in some informatio describing the animal in and of itself? Its evolution, life cycle, reproduction, diet, preferred habitats, etc. As it is now its more a lurid web page and less an encyclopedia article. Larry Dunn (talk) 21:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Western Desert Taipan
This media report refers to the identification of a Western desert Taipan only the fifth collection of the species very little detail size 1m+ location of collection Great Victoria Desert in WA. Gnangarra 08:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

"Taxonomy"
"Oxyuranus microlepidotus T" - What does the T mean? 68.156.95.34 (talk) 08:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

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Taipan
Can a taipan kill a 100 people in 10 seconds? 102.220.210.61 (talk) 14:21, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:NOTFORUM. AviationFreak💬 22:02, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Tai-pan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 06:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)