Talk:Tassos Papadopoulos

Akritas
This article does not mention the President's position as the Deputy Chief of Akritas, nor his involvement in the development or attempted execution of the Akritas Plan. Given the consequences that this has had on the island ever since, it seems relevant. I will leave it to your judgement.


 * On that note, former Greek Cypriot leader, Glafkos Klerides, speculates in his book "Process of Country" that it was Papadopoulos who wrote the Akritas Plan, "I firmly believe that the writing phase of the work in question was done by Tassos Papadopoulos rather than Polikarpos Yorgacis, who did not have the necessary education and knowledge on law to prepare such a document."


 * Klerides also talks about the point mentioned in another post below re the book "First Partition", about how Papadopoulos planned to massacre the Turkish Cypriot population in the event of Turkish intervention. According to Klerides, Papadopoulos said "We will have one hour and 45 minutes to clean up the Turks from Cyprus" during a visit to the American Embassy in 1964.

FAO Valentinian
Hi Valentinian, you removed my addition to the article concerning Greek Cypriot views on His Excellency President Papadopoulos, unless you give reason here I will restore it within 24 Hours.--GreekWarrior 00:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi GreekWarrior. I don't mind the fact that you included references to the concerns of the Greek-Cypriot community regarding the proposed Annan Plan (I've actually read much of it myself thanks to Cyprus Mail publishing it on the net, and well, it is certainly not the prettiest paper ever produced by the UN). But I had several problems with the edit, and I didn't have the time to go over it. 1) It is not good encyclopedic practice to use a lot of value-loaded or grandiose words. Using phrases like "His Excellency" could be used in another 10,000 articles but is generally avoided. It is deliberate that the articles about other statesmen generally avoid such phrases. 2) Some of the words you use (words like Heroism (with a capital H), wholly justified and similar cases) will be considered to be POV by many readers. This is not allowed by Wikipedia policy. If you write the same content in a more neutral tone, I will not have any problem with it, but your first edit was not neutral enough according to Wiki standards. We are not supposed to be carried away, even though we write about some of our heroes or favourite subjects.


 * So my problem has little to do with the content of your edit, but more with the form of it. Mentioning the importance of the issue of the Right of Return in the Greek-Cypriot community is a very relevant observation. Adding that many Greek-Cypriots supported / supports Papadopoulos in this and other cases is relevant too. Your oberservations about the entry into the EU are relevant as well, but please write a bit more neutral next time :-) My regards. --Valentinian 21:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, I understand your point, I'll work on a more NPOV edit when I have the time.--GreekWarrior 19:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely pathetic, could you provide substantiation for your comment that President Papapdopoulos said "The best Turk is a dead Turk"?

No, you can't. Remove it immediately.

I have never read anything however about Papadopoulos reaching out to the Turkish Cypriots as Abraham Lincoln did when the USA was split. Has he ever referred to the Turkish Cypriots as "fellow countrymen?", offering "Malice to none, charity for all?" or pledging not to change the 1960 constitution should a reconciliation take place? It was Makarios' intention to change the constitution to the detriment of the Turkish Cypriots that started the whole mess in 1963. I look at that man and all I see is a Greek. not a Cypriot. As long as he simply demands his government controlling the whole island and not making clear any intentions that can assauge Turkish Cypriot fears, then the partition will prevail. -- Expatkiwi 16:35 19 September 2005.


 * Lets keep the Lincoln/Washington/Founding Fathers e.t.c. love in to a minimum here, if you want to do that, there are plenty of places on the Web that will accomodate your laughably innacurate views about them. Secondly, only a complete idiot would claim the 1960 Constitution was workable, you cannot afford a 11% minority (as it was at that time) complete and utter electoral and veto equality with the 88% majority. It is simply impossible to create a working democracy that way, it's idiots like you who helped to create the 'Stab in the Back' myth after WW1 among the German Populace because of the idiots who helped craft the Treaty of Versailles and the ensuing, doomed to failure Weimar Republic. The 1960 Constitution proposed a doomed Weimar style of Government, as did the Annan Plan with it's 'rotating Presidential council'. As His Excellency said: "I received a state; I will not deliver a community."


 * Your points with regards to His Excellency opening up to The Turkish Cypriots are equally as laughable. The Legally recognized Cyprus Republic has always, and will always offer equal opportunities to the Turkish Cypriot Minority, that is why we have bilingualism on everything in The Republic, that is why we offer our Education, Health and Social Services to the Turkish Cypriots, even our flag promotes this kind of unity. But the so called defacto 'TRNC' offers no such thing, it is a racist, apartheid pseudostate that discriminates on the basis of religion and ethnicity, it has no bilingualism and it's Crescent flag is indicative of The Turk's ultimate aim with regards to Cyprus. Apologists like you will eventually realise the truth, but only, I fear, when it is already too late and Muslims have formed their United Islamic Republic of Europe. As Ali Sina says, you are the 'useful idiots'.


 * Tassos had it spot on in regards to the Annan Plan, we will not be played around by the Great Powers, we will not be subjected to living like a scared minority in our own country, we will not be treated as though our concerns about Right of Return are something to be simply gambled away at a Blackjack table. Oh, and one final question, when has the leader of the pseudostate or any of his 'Cabinet' ever offered peace and reconciliation towards the Greek Cypriots? Go to the pseudostate and visit one of their 'Schools', and see what young Turks are being taught, you will be astounded, I guarantee you. Even Turkey itself is no more than a geographical expression, there is no binding culture (other than that stolen by a group of nomadic barbarian thugs after the fall of the Byzantine Empire, there is no binding History, there isn't even a binding language - It is a state built on lies about a so called 'Turkish ethnicity', defined simply by roughly drawn borders, Turkey is, quite simply no more than a geographical expression.


 * As His Excellency once said: "I received a state; I will not deliver a community." And all Greeks stand behind him. You will never defeat the Hellenic Spirit, I would gladly give up my own life and the lives of all my family if it meant Turkey ceased to exist. --GreekWarrior 20:52, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Greek Warrior, very well said above, just one note with regards to the president's page... unless I missed it you did not mention "Enosis Kentrou", the party he formed in the 80's which didn't do too well but factual and worth mentioning as political life info. Regards, Marios Polycarpou.


 * His "Excellency" also once submitted a plan detailing how to exterminate every Turkish Cypriot within 75 minutes (documented by Makarios Drusiotis in "First Partition: 1963-64 Cyprus", and confirmed by US archives) - but apparently this only serves to raise his approval among his target audience. This gushing article completely overlooks this side of Papadopolous - which GreekWarror, albeit with pride, has presented on this discussion page with various anecdotes.

Bold text

To PMA and others, re: so-called "Greek POV"
First of all, I'm not Greek, I'm Cypriot. If you want to qualify that with "Greek Cypriot", fine. But I try my best to avoid any POV statements.

Secondly, I could argue that a simple "TRNC" (in quotes) communicates the same meaning as the rather more complicated "the de facto (but not de jure) state that is the TRNC". Someone who doesn't know what the terms "de facto" and "de jure" mean (and I'm sure there's many people that don't, especially when used in this context) would have to look them up. In addition, the general definition of de facto at the top of the page suggests that it means something that's generally accepted (even if it's not legally true), which is certainly not the case here. Sometimes we need to consider brevity and ease of comprehension as well as the accuracy of the description. Otherwise, we could replace all instances of the word TRNC with something like "the area occupied by Turkish armed forces and controlled by a de facto Turkish Cypriot administration that has no legal international recognition". That, of course, would be ridiculous.

So I'm willing to agree to calling it "TRNC", but if we don't qualify this name with quotes (or some other simple way) then there is a connotation of legitimacy that I believe is wrong. Yes, it's true that I'm particularly interested in this issue because I'm a Greek Cypriot. But I'm willing to find a compromise and my goal is to avoid POV and describe this complicated issue in a way that reflects reality as simply as possible. Csymeonides 10:26, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Only a traitor would consider himself 'Cypriot', Cyprus is part of Greece in all but name, we speak Greek, we eat Greek, we live Greek - We are therefore, Greek. Those who choose to ignore our past will be dealt with harshly when we get a good Government in Greece like the Golden Dawn.--GreekWarrior 20:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * GreekWarrior, what rubbish! Did you know we Greek Cypriots have DNA closer to that of the Turkish Cypriots than that of Greeks? You're a fool - only a traitor would deny his/her Cypriotness! Cypriot stud (talk) 00:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

A statement which (definitely) requires a source
I've moved the following comment from the article itself to the talk page:

"In late 2004, in an interview with a middle Eastern newspaper, Papadopoulos flatly denied that Greek Cypriots murdered Turkish Cypriots between 1963-1974, despite evidence to the contrary."

I don't know if he has actually said this or not (and I'm neither Greek nor Turk), but in order for a remark like this to remain in any article, it has to be backed up with a credible reference.

Please don't restore this sentence to the article until such a reference has been established. I'd prefer the name and date of the newspaper in question. --Valentinian 21:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The name of the publication is the Khaleej Times and it was an interview with TP on 4 Spetember 2004. The interview is available online here.


 * http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?section=exclusiveinterview&xfile=data/exclusiveinterview/2004/september/exclusiveinterview_september2.xml


 * The claim is near the end of the interview and is as follows


 * "Papadopoulos: From the beginning, they were planning for a separation. But, in fact, the Turkish Cypriots were the ones who committed massacres and in 1963 we asked to increase the police patrols, but they refused. From 1963 to 1974, how many Turkish Cypriots were killed? The answer is, none."


 * Erolz 22:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Could I please note to editors that the user 'Erolz' is a member and operator of the 'Talkcyprus' message boards (As well as many others), in which he has frequently expressed extremist opinions regarding Greek Cypriots and Greeks, in one thread claiming he was 'glad' that 'so many' Greek Cypriots died during the 1974 invasion, in another flatly denying that Greeks had been persecuted and driven out of the island Imbros and Tenedos, then quickly changing his tune and claiming that although this did happen, he was 'glad' of it because 'Greeks are animals'. He is an untrustworthy editor and clearly has an extremist POV to push, I would recommend that because of these reasons he be banned from Wikipedia.


 * The only truth in the above libelous comments are that I am one of the founders and admins of the talkcyprus.org discussion forum. This is a bicommunal forum with both Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot as well as non Cypriot mods and admins and members. Nothing other than spam posts has ever been deleted from this discussion site. I have never said the things that this annoymous poster claims I have said and if I had then they would be able to provide a link to these posts. These allegations are simply untrue. That someone can annoymously come here and try and spread these lies about me and then call for me to be banned from wikipedia for unproven allegations of extremism says far more about the integrity of this poster than it does about me. I have NEVER said 'greeks are animals' or ever expressed any joy at the suffering of Greeks or Greek Cypriots or indeed anyone else for that matter. These are just lies. Erolz 03:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

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