Talk:Ted Joans

Small edits
Date of death should be added. --Daniel C. Boyer 12:32, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

"Joans invented the technique of outagraphy, in which the subject of a photograph is cut out of the photograph." sounds redundant. I replaced the second "photograph" word with "image".64.117.156.20 16:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Removal of outagraph picture
What is the reason for the removal of the picture of the outagraph on this page? --Daniel C. Boyer 20:45, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Sir, that is a blantant attempt by you to self-promote yourself. You are not Ted Joans.Classicjupiter2 22:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Classicjupiter2, this is a "blantant" [sic] attempt by you to pursue your anti-Boyer agenda. Find an outagraph made by Joans and replace my illustration with it; it's not worthwhile just complaining in the abstract when you're unwilling to do anything about it!  Also, note that there was originally a different article on outagraphy which was merged with this, and it was never my intention that this be at the Ted Joans article.  --Daniel C. Boyer 19:11, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * You have a user page to do anything you like.Classicjupiter2 22:37, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Not only is this an irrelevant argument (you duck the issue about outagraphy formerly being an article), having nothing to do with the Ted Joans article, you have been one of the chief arguers against my using my user page to do whatever I'd like. So this is a particularly disingenuous statement on your part.  --Daniel C. Boyer 23:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Better to have it on your user page.Classicjupiter2 03:26, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * You are positing that it is a question between having it on my user page and here, a question made possible by ignoring everything I've said on the point. It was supposed to illustrate outagraphy, which has now been merged with the Ted Joans article; it wouldn't serve any purpose on my user page, if I'd even care to have it there, which I don't, and I don't accept the implication that the existence of this illustration is some kind of vanity on my part.  Even so, I have a deep suspicion, given your past criticism of what I did choose to have on my user page, that you'd then discover the argument that having the outragraph on my user page violated Wikipedia policy in some way.  You can't have it both ways.  --Daniel C. Boyer 15:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Just keep your art out of the Ted Joans article. If you want to show your art, you have a user page.Classicjupiter2 16:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * As you haven't answered one of my concerns in the slightest, particularly my concern that if I were to add the outagraph to my user page, something I don't have any intention of doing, you'd once again find it a violation of policy, I can't see any serious issue in reverting. --Daniel C. Boyer 18:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * We all have to do what is best for Wikipedia. Please keep your artwork out of the Ted Joans article, thank you.Classicjupiter2 23:45, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * You still have not provided any reason why the removal "is best for Wikipedia". If you have some sort of problem with the authorship of the example, find a licenced example of an outagraph or create your own and replace it; I'd have no problem with that and even if I did it shouldn't have any bearing on what you do.  Otherwise it is best left there.  --Daniel C. Boyer 16:24, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Your artwork stays out of the article. You have a user page to promote yourself and your art.Classicjupiter2 19:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * As you've not responded to any of my concerns, I'll give this statement the weight it deserves. --Daniel C. Boyer 16:03, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Please keep your art out of the article. Thank you.Classicjupiter2 16:34, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'd prefer not to protect this article, but I will if this edit war continues. Please attempt to settle this issue on this talk page. Perhaps you could list this on RfC. Gamaliel 3 July 2005 17:00 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to "outagraph." I have not seen any evidence to suggest that it is a term in widespread use, nor any evidence to suggest that Joans was its inventor, nor any evidence to suggest that it is among his notable achievements. We now have a better Joans article that contains information about his important achievements. Let's not detract from it by adding (possibly apocryphal) trivia. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 18:01, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Brother of Ted Joans
I don't know if this is the right place to comment and correct an article but here it is: Ted Joans changed his last name from Jones to Joans because he had a girlfriend called Joan and in order to show respect for her he changed his last name to Joans. He was not the biological brother of LeRoi Jones (now called Amiri Baraka) but his soul brother. All black men refer to one another as brothers (or soul brothers) like all black women could be called sisters or soul sisters. On the other hand being the only black poets (together with Babs Gonzales) in the socalled Beatnik Movement in Greenwich Village around 1959 one could say that they had a special kind of brotherhood.

Ole Lund - another soul brother of Ted joans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.56.118.23 (talk) 16:04, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Outagraph
The claim Ted Joans invented the Outagraph was contentious and was removed in 2005 as unsourced - it had been based solely on the Outagraph article (since deleted) written by User:Daniel C. Boyer (since topic banned for self-promotion) and totally unsourced. It seems the claim found its way back again, added by an IP that was almost certainly Mr Boyer. It was a long time ago, but I've removed it again as I can find no reliable sources for its even existing as an accepted art form, and nothing connecting it to Ted Joans (other than Wikipedia mirrors which, sadly, have contaminated the web with this nonsense that's been here in some form since Boyer's origin of the claim in 2003). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:45, 14 October 2018 (UTC)