Talk:The Haunting of Hill House (TV series)

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Status of the series[edit]

As it stands, THoHH is the title of the entire series, and it has been renewed for a second SEASON, not a second SERIES, per RS. The requirement for clarifications of June still exist, and a miniseries is no longer a miniseries once it has been confirmed for a second season - you cannot argue with the sources, they specifically say it is a second season of THoHH. All sources are either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is.

The status quo should remain while the status of the series is in discussion. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 10:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"you cannot argue with the sources, they specifically say it is a second season of THoHH." -- they also say it's a "miniseries". And the second season storyline has nothing to do with The Haunting of Hill House.
This article may very well stay as-is and fall under an umbrella title, just as all the seasons of American Horror Story have (see 14:00, 4 May 2019 comment by Bearcat above). Until such time, what the RSs provide is the information the article also provides. Pyxis Solitary yak 11:51, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Again, all sources referring to the series as a miniseries were either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is. What the reliable series state is that The Haunting of Hill House has been renewed for a second season, not a second related series. That automatically rules out any current state of the series as a miniseries. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 14:29, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
re "miniseries": The Paste source was published October 10, 2018 -- and the Junkee source was published February 22, 2019 (the day after season 2, The Haunting of Bly Manor, was announced). Pyxis Solitary yak 07:42, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Again yet again, all sources referring to the series as a miniseries were either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is. Furthermore, one source and its one reviewer that says "miniseries" twice in the article does not necessarily solidify the content as true; it needs to be referred to as such by a wide range of sources to be true and not just by one reviewer. If that one article did not exist and the personal review (so not exactly a reliable source, and more of a blog entry) of that one reviewer wasn't available, what would you have to fall back on? 115.64.238.117 (talk) 10:46, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The sources met the requirements of WP:RELIABLE and WP:SIGCOV. You have neither requested comments from other editors on this talk page, nor announced a request on WT:WPTV.
You have used more than one IP address -- 220.244.89.101 and 115.64.238.117 -- to dispute the same content and your are gaming the system.
As 220.244.89.101 (Australia - TPG Telecom):
As 115.64.238.117 (Australia - TPG Telecom):
By deleting cited content, you have engaged in tendentious editing. The pattern of edits that you have engaged in under two different IP addresses is disruptive editing. Pyxis Solitary yak 12:59, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And the sources are being disputed and challenged. Both the links you just cited are guidelines; WP:CHALLENGE is a policy. The content you've added is being challenged, based on the fact that what you're adding is the opinion of a single reviewer, and that is the only website that you are citing, and the only one you are able to, as the series is referred to as such in such a minimal manner. Understand that you do not WP:OWN this page, and thus it is up to you to defend your content in the manner requested. You have failed this.
Now, for your attempted listing, do look up what a dynamic IP is, then get back to me once you understand. If you need me to explain the technical details, I'll be happy to. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 13:39, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
1. Any attempt at WP:CHALLENGE was nullified when two sources were included. You may not like the sources, but your personal opinions do not create policies.
2. "the opinion of a single reviewer". Sources is plural. There are two. No one OWNs this article -- including you.
3. No need to read the yada yada about IP address. You're located in Australia, and whether you're editing Wikipedia from home, university, work, or a cafe on the side of the road ... both IP addresses you've used are provided by an Australian Internet service. You're still the one, same person in Australia diddling on this article.
4. You want consensus? Do an RfC, or at minimum ask editors who roam WT:WPTV to come to this talk page and contribute their say. Pyxis Solitary yak 14:14, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Those sources were challenged, reasons provided. The first source was released before the renewal, making it outdated and therefore useless to the argument at hand. But hey, you've got great detective skills. And you're more than welcome to hold an RFC or post to WP:TV, given that it is you trying to implement your edits on the apparent miniseries status of the series. I'm not implementing anything here, I'm restoring the article to how it's been since its creation. But until you do so and gain a consensus for your contested bold edits, the status quo remains. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 14:23, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gutting article to create a Season 1 article[edit]

‎Pyxis Solitary, please state your opposition to the split. None has been provided. I split the article to make the distinct separation between the first and second seasons. As the articles stood, there was only an article for the parent series and the second season, as, yes, Bly Manor is a second season and not a sequel series, as determined by reliable sources and past discussions. The split therefore separated these seasons and made content clearer. The article was split with the correct attribution and thus was acceptable and allowable per Wikipedia policy, and not every split requires a discussion to go ahead, so I recommend that you recind your OWN accusation; an OWN behaviour would, for example, include reverting good-faith edits, without a reason or because it was "unnecessary", or requiring your personal approval. -- /Alex/21 04:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This top-to-bottom article restructure edit was not discussed in the article Talk page prior to being done. This latest edit is an example of WP:OWNERSHIP by User:Alex 21 over this article -- an attitude first displayed when he renamed the article on 22 February 2019 -- which resulted in the page move being reversed on 14 May 2019 after objection by editors.
These "my way or the highway" edits are not examples of WP:BOLD editing, where editors are encouraged to "fix problems, correct grammar, add facts, make sure wording is accurate, etc.," but also advised to be WP:CAREFUL. They're a one-finger salute to other editors. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 05:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've merged the two sections on this topic. Please actually respond to my comments above, where I have explained my good-faith edits in detail and noted the lack of content-based explanation behind your revert, instead of merely throwing out accusations; remember, talk pages are to discuss content not conduct. Thank you. -- /Alex/21 05:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am respecting you by discussing this content civilly; please do the same by taking part in this discussion with your replies civilly. Thank you. -- /Alex/21 05:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pyxis Solitary, I see you are active on this talk page. Do you, or do you not, intend to actually discuss the content civilly? -- /Alex/21 05:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing 'civil' about appropriating another editor's comment: 1x, 2x. You do not have the right to decide what an editor writes, where, and why.
Suffice it to say: I'm not buying your snake oil. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:43, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So, you have no intention to discuss the article content. This is sufficient basis to restore the content. Thank you. -- /Alex/21 06:47, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do not manipulate any comment to fit your pre-determined intention. WP:BOLD does not support your edit. If you do not attempt to seek the opinions of other editors, you're here for a one-track-mind self gratification, not collaboration. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then respond to the content, and not the conduct, like a collaborative editor. Stop deflecting. -- /Alex/21 06:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
1. Seek consensus.
2. Seek consensus.
3. Seek consensus.
Until the premiere of The Haunting of Bly Manor looms and there are reliable sources to support splitting the article, it should remain as-is.
4. Seek consensus.
5. Seek consensus.... Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 07:03, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are still not here to discuss the revert, then, just to try to drive your own point home. You have presented zero arguments in the face of it, and one cannot seek consensus if you refuse to actually discuss it. Do you want to discuss it and have me seek consensus, or not? If you cannot provide a reason for your revert, then you have and had no reason to, and thus have nothing and no-one to support your position; it seems that it is you that needs to gain a consensus. -- /Alex/21 08:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Splitting the articles seems a bit unnecessary, since there doesn't appear to be enough content to warrant a split. As of now, having both The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) and The Haunting of Hill House (season 1) seems redundant. Bly Manor, of course definitely deserves its own article which it currently does. This was a similar issue with The Terror (TV series) (another anthology) where season articles were created, but were just redirect back due to little content. The problem is that the series is not called The Haunting of Hill House, that is the title of the first season. Renaming the article The Haunting of Bly Manor to The Haunting of Hill House (season 2) is a terrible idea. American Horror Story seasons are named after their actual titles: ex. American Horror Story: Asylum not American Horror Story (season 2). WP:TVSEASON also says, "Alternatively, if each season is referred to by a distinctive name, that should be used instead." and uses Survivor: The Australian Outback as an example. The Haunting of Bly Manor is obviously a distinctive name. In the press release for the Bly Manor announcement, Netflix refers to it as "The Haunting anthology". The Haunting being the umbrella term for the series, while Hill House and Bly Manor are season titles. I think we need to wait for it to be released to see how Netflix treats it, though Netflix already has a separate entry for Bly Manor on its website. My biggest concern here, is that The Haunting of Hill House (season 2) should not be the article title. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:27, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for actually being willing to discuss.
Can you show other widespread examples where a parent article and a non-first season article exists, without the first season(s) having an article? The Terror does not apply, given the now lack of a second season article. As far as I've known, no such example exists. If one is going to split into season articles, then all season articles should exist; at the very least, from the first.
As for the whole franchise being titled The Haunting... we tried that, and again I got severely attacked from the above editor for even trying to implement that. See the discussions that only recently just got archived ([1], the first three discussions of this version). As it stands, The Haunting of Hill House is the title for the parent series, and there is no subtitle for the first season; hence, per WP:NCTV, if one season is named something special, this should be noted through redirects and in the article's WP:LEAD, but the article should be named in the same fashion as the other season pages. Only one season is currently known under a subtitle, whereas all AHS seasons have their own separate title.
If, however, we come to a clear consensus that The Haunting is an overall title, and Hill House and Bly Manor are season titles (which I would agree with), then that would further support the existance of the season articles; one for the overall series, and then separate articles for each season. -- /Alex/21 23:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As someone who has not watched the show or been involved in these article before, I just though I would add my opinion to help with the discussion. The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor are clearly two separate installments of a single anthology called The Haunting (per Netflix's press release that Drovethrughosts provided above). What that means in terms of logical article structure is there should either be separate articles for Hill House and Bly Manor plus an overview article for The Haunting, or just an overview article of The Haunting with separate articles spun-off for Hill House and/or Bly Manor once enough content becomes available. Having an article for Hill House and then a sub article for Bly Manor makes no sense at all. The only reason I am not using specific series and season articles here is because it is not clear to me from the press release whether they are considered separate seasons of one series or separate series of one anthology franchise. Those more familiar with the show may know better than me on that one. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:17, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's a discussion above titled "Requested move 7 May 2019". The closure states: "per consensus in the two discussions on this page". A longer discussion preceded it: Changing the name of the article. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 03:11, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Those discussions are outdated and irrelevant to this one. If the articles are to be restructured then the titles of the new articles will need to fit their content, not the content from before the restructuring when those previous discussions took place. And the articles do need to be restructured. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:51, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"two separate installments of a single anthology called The Haunting..... That's why I pointed you to the 2019 discussion that resulted from Alex 21 moving the page based on presumption without sources to support the change. When Hill House was developed, Bly Manor was not planned. The series was not promoted as "The Haunting" and not released as "The Haunting". The series is still known and referred to as The Haunting of Hill House. The idea for Bly Manor resulted from the success of Hill House, and the point of that "outdated and irrelevant" (your words) discussion was to floor the brakes and not jump the gun when it comes to page restructures based on WP:FUTURE. Until Bly Manor is released, we don't know exactly how to change The Haunting of Hill House. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 13:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Excepf for now it is referred to as The Haunting, sources included. The press release, from Netflix, clearly states "The Haunting anthology" and "The Haunting series" - direct quotes. Can you argue against that? -- /Alex/21 23:16, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus's can change, discussions can become outdated, and remember, consensus does not mean unamity. There's more editorial support for The Haunting then there is against it in this discussion. Also looking at the RM, there were two !votes: one was a direct support for The Haunting, and the other stated Support series as The Haunting, the first season as The Haunting of Hill House and the second season as The Haunting of Bly Manor. -- /Alex/21 06:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Alex 21, to your point regarding American Horror Story, the first season was simply originally just known as American Horror Story; it was given the Murder House subtitle after the fact. This is essentially the same situation. It doesn't make sense to refer The Haunting of Bly Manor as season 2 of The Haunting of Hill House, meaning the actual title would be something like The Haunting of Hill House: The Haunting of Bly Manor, which is simply incorrect. Now, Bly Manor being season 2 of a series called The Haunting [anthology]? Well yes. It is not a subtitle, the full title is simply The Haunting of Bly Manor per all official sources: Netflix.com, Netflix Media Center, its entry at the WGA, and the official logo per the infobox. I'm thinking this deserves a bigger venue for discussion, maybe some input from members at MOS:TV and WP:TV. Drovethrughosts (talk) 12:48, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've been combing through the AHS articles for information as to when the Murder House subtitle was applied, but it seems that Wiki is lacking in this information... I would agree with the overall series being titled The Haunting, with The Haunting of Hill House serving as Season 1 and The Haunting of Bly Manor serving as Season 2. That does seem to be the common consensus forming here. In fact, this reminds me very much of Criminal, a Netflix anthology series made up of four separate TV series. -- /Alex/21 13:04, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're using the opinions of the IP editor from Australia for support? LOL! Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 13:40, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now is hardly the best time to start being racist. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:07, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't matter who they are, their lack or holding of an account, or where they're from. They supported the change. As far as I can tell, you're the only one to disagree with it, and Consensus on Wikipedia does not mean unanimity. Please try to keep your internalized racism to yourself (especially during times like these). -- /Alex/21 23:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Editors should be aware of attempted canvassing. Per WP:CANVAS, this is Vote-stacking: Posting messages to users selected based on their known opinions. Please see methods of appropriate notification at WP:APPNOTE. Cheers. -- /Alex/21 23:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Editors should be aware of pots calling kettles black: "Adamstom.97, hey again. The discussion has moved to a move civil manner, without the drama, after the inclusion of another editor, if you wanted to drop by. Thanks again." -- Alex/21. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 07:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pyxis Solitary, did I post first, or did they? Big difference. -- /Alex/21 09:42, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No. It's the same. If he has the intelligence to find your talk page on his own, he has the intelligence to find this discussion on his own.
But pathetically, and more important, is that in your rush to find fault and indulge an accusation you failed to notice what is considered to be an appropriate notification: "On the user talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include: Editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics)." Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 21:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You reached out to one editor with a known opinion. Another editor reached out to me, and I most certainly did not post on their user talk page. Try again, lassy. -- /Alex/21 23:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"You reached out to one editor with a known opinion." Do you not understand what "Editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic" means? It's become evident that you are seized by a wisenheimer compulsion, but do try taking a look at the 2019 discussion. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 04:25, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break[edit]

Anyways. If there's agreement from the other editors to split the articles into Hill House and Bly Manor under the series name The Haunting, which the consensus certainly now seems to support, I'll go ahead and restore the edits, then move the three relevant articles. -- /Alex/21 23:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is not an RfC. The only editors in agreement are you and adamstom97. Drovethrughosts stated: "I'm thinking this deserves a bigger venue for discussion, maybe some input from members at MOS:TV and WP:TV." So if you want consensus, you announce the discussion there. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 03:23, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no requirement. Can you state such a policy? Cheers. -- /Alex/21 09:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now it is. Cheers. -- /Alex/21 10:25, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RFC[edit]

Consensus in favor of either D or E-1, further discussion needed. !votes were evenly split between options D and E-1 (4–4). Two editors argued against all present options, saying that it is too soon to do anything at this time, and one editor advocated for E-2. I note that editors suggested that E-1 and D are two different ways of arriving at essentially the same result, so hopefully editors can tease out a solution without needing a second RfC. signed, Rosguill talk 20:06, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How should this article and its subarticles be titled and structured?

  • Option A This article is titled The Haunting of Hill House (layout), with no Season 1 article and only The Haunting of Bly Manor article as a subarticle (layout).
  • Option B This article is titled The Haunting of Hill House (layout), with The Haunting of Hill House (season 1) (layout) and The Haunting of Bly Manor (layout) articles as subarticles.
  • Option C This article is titled The Haunting of Hill House (layout), with The Haunting of Hill House (season 1) (layout) and The Haunting of Hill House (season 2) (layout) articles as subarticles.
  • Option D This article is titled The Haunting (layout, but retitled), with The Haunting of Hill House (layout, but retitled) and The Haunting of Bly Manor (layout) articles as subarticles.
  • Option E Some other title and structure.

-- /Alex/21 10:25, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    • Option E-1 (Example added after initial RfC creation): This article remains The Haunting of Hill House dedicated to the first season/series as a subarticle. A new The Haunting overview article is written. The Haunting of Bly Manor to serve as the second series/season subarticle. (This is basically Option D with a different approach.)
    • Option E-2 (2nd example after E-1): [1] This original article, The Haunting of Hill House, remains as-is for the miniseries that it is. [2] Create umbrella article The Haunting (Netflix anthology) for a general summary of the anthology. [3] Article for the second installment of the anthology, The Haunting of Bly Manor (The Haunting season 2), with similar individual coverage as pre-anthology Hill House article. (note: I should have added this option at the same time that I responded to the survey. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 05:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Survey[edit]

  • Option D The article requires splitting make the distinct separation between the first and second seasons. As the articles stood, there was only an article for the parent series and the second season, as, yes, Bly Manor is a second season and not a sequel series, as determined by reliable sources and past discussions. The split therefore separated these seasons and made content clearer, into a parent article for the anthology series, and the two separate seasons titled The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor respectively. This is supported per the discussions above, with the press release from Netflix that clearly states "The Haunting anthology" and "The Haunting series". -- /Alex/21 10:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option D If this is considered an anthology series much like American Horror Story, then this article should be about the anthology as a whole (which appears to be The Haunting), and then you have your subsequent subpages names for each "season" of the anthology, in this case Hill House and Bly Manor. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option E (E-1 for now, pending additional proposals, if any) I actually agree with the article structure of Option D, but I don't think proposed way to get to the structure is the most efficient. I added E-1 as an example above, and I elaborated in the discussion below. -2pou (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option E (E-2). Umbrella article The Haunting (Netflix anthology) – for general overview about the original limited series The Haunting of Hill House, and general info about second season The Haunting of Bly Manor.
    Individual articles: (1) The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) remains as-is; (2) The Haunting of Bly Manor (The Haunting season 2).  [And if there's a third season, The Haunting of Wikipedia (The Haunting season 3 ).] Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 08:30, 6 June 2020 (UTC); (added "E-2" to option) 05:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Would the (The Haunting season 2) after The Haunting of Bly Manor be necessary? As it’s not a season 2/sequel for anything. I think having the parent article The Haunting (TV series) then The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor is enough as the titles already consist of The Haunting. I could be wrong. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 06:36, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I could go either way, with or without "...(The Haunting season 2) ", but there are editors who may be adamant about Bly Manor being referred to as a "Season 2" in sources and, therefore, the title should identify it as such. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 12:52, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option E-1 Having a parent article with just The Haunting (TV series) or The Haunting (Netflix anthology) with subpages The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor is something I strongly support and agree with. Bly Manor appears to be a completely different series, not a sequel to Hill House. If this is option is to go forward, this current page should be entirely on The Haunting of Hill House, with a new page either titled title The Haunting (TV series) or The Haunting (Netflix anthology), which presents information about the entire anthology in general. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 10:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure it's "D" that you're going with? Because I don't think that what "D" proposes equates with your sentiment. You said, "this current page should be entirely on The Haunting of Hill House", but that's not what D suggests. Then again, I may be misreading your comment. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 14:59, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree. KaitoNkmra23, is that what you intended? In Option D you wouldnt need to draft a new article because this one would become the umbrella article. -2pou (talk) 16:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pyxis Solitary 2pou My apologies, I meant Option E-1. I’ve already made a draft article here as this option seems to be the one that makes the most sense. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 21:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KaitoNkmra23: I'm glad you sorted it out. But you did not change your selection from "Option D" to "E-1". Or did I not get the gist of your response? Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:08, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pyxis Solitary Changed it. Apologies, I completely missed it. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 06:25, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KaitoNkmra23: Good to know I'm not losing my mind. ;‑) Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:30, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wanted to point out the possibility that proceeding with Option E-1 instead of Option D will be much easier as D requires a full layout reorganisation and the creation of a new article, where E-1 keeps this article’s (The Haunting of Hill House (TV series)) current layout and only requires an article to be created and published. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 13:29, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option E-1. I'm liking this option the most. A new parent article titled The Haunting (TV series) with subarticles titled The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) and The Haunting of Bly Manor. The Hill House article would basically be the version it is now, except Bly Manor would only be mentioned in the lede and the infobox ("followed by" paraemter); the subsection about the second season would be eliminated. The lede for the subarticles would read something like "The Haunting of Hill House/The Haunting of Bly Manor is the first/second season of the Netflix horror anthology series The Haunting." Drovethrughosts (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option Do Nothing - Evidence that this will be called a The Haunting series or franchise lacking. Don't split The Haunting of Hill House into "seasons" as that is also weak on sourcing. Treat The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor as completely separate TV series made by the same creative team. Wait and see how media describe them after some time. Simply TOOSOON to make a change. -- Netoholic @ 19:01, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is one of the options I’m considering. I agree that there is a lack of sources that indicate that this is The Haunting TV series. Part of me says that it should revert back to how it was before, with the current page The Haunting of Hill House (season 2) becoming The Haunting of Bly Manor. However, there could be sources that we haven’t found/ looked into that may say otherwise. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 21:47, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also really like this idea as well. Simply forgoing a traditional parent article (The Haunting) in this instance seems fine since they're isn't enough content for Hill House and Bly Manor to create another article about it. I'm totally for separate "series" articles and that's it. I agree with Netoholic regarding WP:TOOSOON and we should wait. I do think we can scrub the "Second season" subsection in this article and let The Haunting of Bly Manor do the work. Drovethrughosts (talk) 23:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option D or Option E-1: These two seem to line up with my thoughts in the initial discussion above. I definitely think the restructure is needed, but which one of these two it should be depends on whether we consider these two seasons of a single series or two series of a single franchise. I can't tell (based on my limited knowledge of the topic and the few sources I have seen) which one is most appropriate. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option D per Favre1fan93. Use of the model of American Horror Story and treat as an anthology. Hadassah16 (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

  • Comment. According to Netflix's press release, the subject is referred to, in the following order, as (1) "The Haunting anthology", (2) "horror series The Haunting of Hill House ", (3) "The Haunting series".[1] It seems that Netflix, itself, is not entirely sure of how to describe it. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 13:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the actual title of the overview article is of significant importance immediately. Given that the concept is relatively new to the show, Netflix will likely still iron it out, but the page can simply be moved/renamed as required. That said, The Haunting (anthology series) would be an option that captures both (1) and (3). This would also allow Hill House and Bly Manor to be "series" articles, as Alex 21 compared to Criminal above (allowing the current dab to stay (TV series) for Hill House without worrying about season/series, etc). I concur that each one should be treated as a series. New characters, new story, new setting. Black Mirror is another show comprised of several series', though that page has chosen to capture them in a single article vice subarticles. -2pou (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies, Pyxis Solitary, I noticed that I was referencing the wrong number you had posted earlier, and I meant to edit my own comment to match. In my haste and the syntax view, I must not have realized where I was editing. -2pou (talk) 16:45, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
2pou: We're cool. Thanks for the explanation. ☮️ Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:15, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, I think it's pretty clear from reading that press release in its entirety that Netflix is not confused. "The Haunting anthology" and "The Haunting series" are the same thing; what's important here is that The Haunting is italicized, indicating that it's a title–of the anthology series as a whole. As for "horror series The Haunting of Hill House", it's referring to the 10-episode series that was released in October 2018 and has nothing to do with Bly Manor. It's obvious when you look at when they use the title Hill House as opposed to The Haunting; such as "Following the success of The Haunting of Hill House" and "The Haunting of Hill House, a modern reimagining of Shirley Jackson's iconic novel" – they are referring to Hill House in past tense in the first statement and Bly Manor has nothing to do with Shirley Jackson's novel of the same name, as Bly Manor is based on a difrerent novel by a different writer. Drovethrughosts (talk) 15:54, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Should this discussion be trying to determine the structure or how to carry it out? The editors that have contributed to this article thus far have mainly been contributing to an article about the first season/series of this show/anthology. It seems like more work would have to go into changing the existing article into an overview article and moving it than to create a new overview article. An overview article is typically brief blurbs (following WP:Summary style). This article has all the specifics already of a subarticle/specific article that goes into summary style subarticles. Transforming this to the overview article would require significant stripping of the content. Creating a new overview article would require smaller additions of content. Although history attribution can be captured with {{Split from}} or {{Copied}} templates, keeping this as the first series is much more straightforward for history attribution. This also provides stability for the current article/title, and there's WP:NORUSH to have a concrete overview article title set in stone just yet. -2pou (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Created draft article The Haunting (TV series) in case the change occurs. Draft article will require improvement in the event that it will be published into the mainspace. KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 12:32, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Should we also discuss the naming convention/subtitle that would belong to The Haunting of Hill House? The current (TV series) wouldn’t be valid as Hill House is part of the series, and isn’t actually one. Pyxis Solitary Perhaps the (The Haunting season 1 (and/or) 2) may be necessary after considering this. The only reason I’m debating over this with myself is that it seems too long to include for an article title, and that I don’t think I’ve seen any other articles with titles similar to this format. Perhaps because this series is one of a kind. ;) KaitoNkmra23 (talk) 13:35, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Netflix Makes Overall Series Deal With Mike Flanagan and Trevor Macy" (Press release). Hollywood, California: Netflix. February 21, 2019. Retrieved 5 June 2020.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Layout[edit]

So, the RFC closed with either:

  • This article is titled The Haunting (layout, but retitled), with The Haunting of Hill House (layout, but retitled) and The Haunting of Bly Manor (layout) articles as subarticles, or
  • This article remains The Haunting of Hill House dedicated to the first season/series as a subarticle. A new The Haunting overview article is written. The Haunting of Bly Manor to serve as the second series/season subarticle. (This is basically Option D with a different approach.)

I recently updated The Haunting of Bly Manor to use {{Infobox television}} rather than {{Infobox television season}} for conformity. As noted on that article's talk page, Amblin's website states The Haunting of Bly Manor—based on Henry James' classic shocker, The Turn of the Screw—the second chapter in The Haunting series, is currently in production, as well as Deadline Hollywood talking about The next chapter of The Haunting anthology series. I'd say that there is a clear consensus now that The Haunting is the title of the overarching series, so how should we best deal with this? -- /Alex/21 22:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I would just expand this page: Draft:The Haunting (TV series) since it's already been drafted and would require minimal changes to this page (if any). Seems like the least amount of work. -2pou (talk) 23:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the second option (Option E-1) seems to be the most appropriate and logical way to approach this. Since the announcement and teaser trailer have been announced/released, a variety of sources have stated that it is The Haunting anthology series. Seeing other articles such as Criminal (TV series) its related articles and how they have been approached, creating a new The Haunting article would make sense. (A draft article has been created in case we proceed with this option: Draft:The Haunting (TV series)). KaitoNkmra23 talk 00:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In addition, The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) may need to be renamed as it’s a season of the entire anthology series. KaitoNkmra23 talk 00:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This may be true, but I would recommend starting with getting the article structure in good shape and then using the WP:RM process to later finalize the article titles themselves. -2pou (talk) 00:09, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've made relevant changes to Draft:The Haunting (TV series); once Bly Manor is released, I believe it can be moved to the mainspace and the tables transcluded to the overview article. I'd also recommend E-1, in which the separate articles stay at their current titles. -- /Alex/21 07:50, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The series is not loosely based.[edit]

If the series has nothing in common to the source material then it’s not loosely based. It just took the name of the original material. 2806:2F0:9261:C827:2913:F203:BCB0:B8DA (talk) 23:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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