Talk:The Motherland Calls

Title
I turned Mother Motherland into a dab page and cut out the Mother Motherland Is Calling. I am not sure that this is the best translation. Please discuss the title. `'Mїkka 17:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Traduttore traditori. I would personally go for "Mother Russia is calling you". Another possibility may be the very free (traditore!) "Your country needs you" by Kitchener, but that loses most of its appeal without a Soviet flag behind the text. The original idea may be French, I think: "La république nous appelle, sachons vaincre ou sachons périr. Un français doit vivre pour elle, pour elle un français doit mourir" (today many replace "doit" by "sait"). The republic is calling us, let us show we know how to win or die - a Frenchman should live for her, a Frenchman should die for her". (Be careful, those at work: music!). Interestingly, there was also a version of the refrain to be sung by the mothers of the departing revolutionary soldiers. The "Russian" version of that would be "The Soviet Union calls you", but that would not do today, so I go for "Mother Russia". I agree that my version still googles badly. --Pan Gerwazy 17:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No way it is "Russia". Like you say, it was "Soviet Union". "Родина-мать" is a culture-specific cliche, with numerous emotional loads. Like, "Uncle Sam needs you!", only different. `'Mїkka 19:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you've got "mother" twice now in your literal translation. As professional translators would say now you've "la laide fidèle" (instead of a belle infidèle) Time will tell whether people will transfer this to "Mother Russia". Have a look at the googles - some people are already doing it. The French example (which in my view influenced "Your country needs you", "Unclke Sam needs you" and "Родина-мать") did not just refer to France either, "la république" meant "Liberté, égalité, fraternité". In my view, the communists were ambiguous too, but in the other sense or direction. The French version was appealing to people's idea of freedom and equality to preserve France. The Soviet version was ambiguously appealing to Russian nationalism to preserve the Soviet Union. I have a recording somewhere of an Orthodox Moscow choir singing (in 1942, I believe) the national anthem of the Soviet Union (Stalin version). It is another example of this ambiguity. Some Western commentators, on seeing monuments like this one, are struck by this ambiguity, misinterpret it and say "this regime even conscribed the dead".--Pan Gerwazy 11:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur with Pan Gerwazy. Mother Motherland is not a direct translation; if it were, it would be Motherland Mother. However, Родина-мать зовёт! was an oft used cry to patriotism, and it is impossible to translate word for word, but rather you need to look at the actual phrase in its entireity. There are really only two ways to translate the phrase. The Motherland is calling you or Mother Russia is calling you - Родина-мать of course being poetic symbolism for Mother Russia. What we really need to find is Soviet documents in ENGLISH from the era when the statue was built, or even from when posters such as this were common, and see what was used in English. I would be guessing that 'the Motherland is calling' would be used; as look at what the Germans would translate it as Mother Fatherland is calling (in German of course) - it wouldn't make sense. Or in short, Родина-мать is simply a personification of the Motherland (or Mother Russia) - depending on usage. I would therefore be in support of a move of the "Mother Motherland" articles to simply "Motherland" and disambig if need be. Also, it should be noted that the various "Motherland is Calling You" statues were inspired by the poster in the link above (which is probably worthy of its own articles on wikipedia) - more info here, in addition to RIA Novosti also translating it as "The Motherland is Calling You"
 * Homeland-mother will be overly literal translation, for the phrase "Homeland-Mother" in English there is the word Motherland. I think that the confusion arises from the old, like a mammoth shit, cranberries(http://lurkmore.to/Клюква), what all the Russians say homeland - motnerland. So it turns out that homeland (Родина) = motherland (Родина-мать). Also, "you" is wrong to use, because the original does not appeal to anyone, the appeal goes to all at once. So "Motnerland Is Calling!" will be much closer in meaning than "Motnerland calls!"...Псс...а, оказывается, ларчик просто открывался...-- Rejf Krou 28.01.2018 17:03(UTC +3)

That disambiguation page should be edited to conform to the Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). (Although I think I preferred the combined article.) Ewlyahoocom 05:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
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Move to The Motherland Calls. Duja ► 12:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Mother Motherland Is Calling → The Motherland is Calling — Mother Motherland is Calling is a word-for-word translation of the name of the statue, however, when translating from the Russian the entire context needs to be looked at and The Motherland is Calling is the more correct translation as Родина-мать literally means The Motherland (and in other contexts can also mean Mother Russia) —Russavia 05:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Weak Support. definitely better than the present one. But a (spelling) alternative may somewhat preserve the motherly idea: "Your Mother Land is Calling (You)". --Pan Gerwazy 15:18, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I switch my support to another one resembling this proposal: "The Motherland calls". That wins the google test hands down. --Pan Gerwazy 20:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose Mother Motherland should be moved to Mother Motherland (disambiguation), and Mother Motherland Is Calling should be moved to Mother Motherland. Ewlyahoocom 05:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Mild oppose - Based on what appears to be the most commonly used name, following the Google results below, "Mother Motherland" seems the most likely option. Rename the current "Mother Motherland" to Mother Motherland (disambiguation). Magnetic hill 19:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Support the idea to remove duplicates. In Russian Родина-мать is a single idiom, and you can't translate them literally. Родина is closer to homeland, "the place where you were born", and the overall meaning of Родина-мать is most properly conveyed by The Motherland. I have no definite opinion on the verbal formation; "is calling" possibly is better, as the name represent a slogan used during the War, not a permanent conception; however, the Russian name also includes the exclamation mark, so The Motherland is calling! would be the most prudent translation (again, no opinion on capitalization). Notice also that in Russian Wikipedia, ru:Родина-мать is dedicated to a concept/slogan, ru:Родина-мать зовёт! to a poster that first used the phrase, and the statue is located under ru:Родина-мать (Волгоград), although ru:Родина-мать зовёт! (Волгоград) would have been better, IMHO. Súrendil 13:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments: --Russavia 05:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Why not introduce some pronouns? "Your Mother Land is calling you", eg, immediately looks and sounds less typically Russian (though perhaps some want to keep that Russian-ness? --Pan Gerwazy 15:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Starting with "your" this is obviously a neologism, and as such cannot be the titele of a wikipedia article. Withdrawn. --Pan Gerwazy 20:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment If we base this on the most commonly used name, which is how pages should be named (according to WP:COMMONNAME), we get the following results from Google (including the different suggestions on this page) -
 * 631 results - "Rodina Mat"
 * 584 results - "Mother Motherland"
 * 23 results - "Mother Motherland Is Calling"
 * 6 results - "Mother Russia is calling you"
 * 5 results - "The Motherland is Calling"
 * 2 results - "The Motherland is calling you"
 * 0 results - "Your Mother Land is calling you"

I included "Volgograd" in the searches to keep the results specific to this statue, but if Volgograd is replaced with the former name "Stalingrad" then the above results are similar. Google isn't an exact test, but it's a good indicator and it shows the two most obvious choices. Magnetic hill 19:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Normal google text searches aren't a good test, as you mention, as it is unknown how many of the "Mother Motherland" results are as a direct result of people consulting this article in finding an English name. Perhaps a more accurate search is by using scholar, books and news.

Google news find no relevant results for "Mother Motherland", but finds plenty of relevant results for The Motherland is Calling. Google books finds plenty of relevant results for The Motherland is Calling, and only one relevant result for Mother Motherland. Google scholar finds a couple of relevant results for Mother Motherland, and a couple of dozen relevant results for The Motherland is calling. The only real question is whether it should be "The Motherland is Calling" or the "The Motherland is Calling You", and I believe it should be simply The Motherland is Calling as the statue is based on the poster with the same name which was used during the Great Patriotic War, in which it wasn't calling individual Soviet citizens, but calling ALL Soviet citizens. --Russavia 20:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Magnetic hill, a correct google count does not count Wikipedia pages or wikipedia mirrors! That would be self-referencing. And you checked Stalingrad and Volgograd separately, but you should have OR'ed - otherwise pages where Volgograd and Stalingrad occur, get two votes! So let us do your work over, but adding the possiblity "calls " instead of "is calling":
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "The Motherland Calls" -wiki -> 275
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "The Motherland Is Calling" -wiki -> 109
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "Mother Motherland Is Calling" -wiki -> 96
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "Mother Motherland Calls" -wiki -> 6
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "Mother Russia Calls" -wiki -> 62
 * Volgograd OR Stalingrad "Mother Russia Is Calling" -wiki -> 8
 * So, I think we should go for "The Motherland Calls". "The Motherland Is Calling", however, contrary to what you think, is actually the highest placed of the ones we checked until now.--Pan Gerwazy 20:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * }

Some one edit please
Ive added the last bit in the main article regarding the simularitys beetween Motherland state and the Winged Victory of Samothrace but im terrible at speling anyone want to lend a hand and edit it if anyone feel that its inapropiete for the article just delit it then --JvlivsCaesar 02:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Another edit needed: Does anyone have the faintest idea what is meant by "It is understood that the sword, forged on the bank of the Urals, was later raised by Motherland in Stalingrad and omitted after the Victory in Berlin." (it is at the end of the lede)1812ahill (talk) 16:20, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Removal of the following...
A exact scale replica is located in Glasnevin Dublin - Source: Ken's Magic Jumpers

Reason: The source is not linked anywhere and appears Bogus. Also I do not know of any replica in Dublin and have researched this fact too. If I am mistaken please add this back in with a link to the Dublin statue. --Mcgon (talk) 07:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Tallest Statue
This page conflicts with List_of_statues_by_height, the Spring_Temple_Buddha is almost twice as tall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omicron91 (talk • contribs) 05:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

You're not familiar with the concept of grammatical tenses, I assume. LaFoiblesse 2009-05-08 21:02 (GMT)

It should probably be amended to be the second-tallest non-religious statue in the world, following the Statue of Unity in India, although that is so specific that one should wonder whether it's worth including at all. Or maybe put a time frame on it, like "until 2018". SeverityOne (talk) 07:27, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Composition
What is it made of? And can we have more information on its structure and construction? Cs302b (talk) 20:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

5500 тонн бетона и 2400 тонн металлических конструкций. 37.194.189.130 (talk) 14:36, 18 December 2015 (UTC)Basilissa

Deletion notice
The lead image of this article has been nominated for deletion on Commons, on the basis that the statue is copyrighted and there is no acceptable freedom of panorama in Russia; see Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rodina mat zovet.jpg. If deleted this image may be re-uploaded here at a lower resolution under fair use. Dcoetzee 07:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be nice to get that low-res picture in here. Un  sch  ool  17:16, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Statue of liberty
In the statue comparisons, the Statue of Liberty is included at 93 meters; however, this includes it's plinth, with the statue itself being 46 meters tall; should this be changed to (using the style from the statue of David)

2. Statue of Liberty 46 meters (statue 46m + base = 93 meters)

115.124.4.18 (talk) 10:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * yes; if it was the World's tallest statue 1967 –1989, cannot be the Statue of Liberty tallest.Assianir (talk) 17:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Larger non-Buddhist statues
The linked list of large statues includes two larger statues that are newer than "The Motherland Calls": a statue of Peter the Great, clearly not a Buddhist image, and one of two emperors of China, which probably isn't Buddhist. Superlatives are nice, but not at the expense of accuracy. Vicki Rosenzweig (talk) 05:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Triptych
The sculpture is the second part of triptych consisted from sculpture in Magnitogorsk and sculpture in Soviet war memorial in Treptower Park Berlin. Someone should write a word or two abut it --95.82.220.34 (talk) 16:39, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Sculpture name and translation
The phrase "The Motherland of my Birth is Calling" does not make sense. There is no word "birth" in the original name of the statue. "Motherland" is a good analog for russian word "Rodina". Secondly the statement "The duplication of the wording in the title "Mother Motherland" does not exist in the original" is not true: this is excactly how the first part of the statue's name sounds in russian. Paragraph "Sculpture name and translation" worth deleting.145.255.181.87 (talk) 18:26, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Nobody replied so I'm deleting the paragraph... 145.255.180.190 (talk) 12:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Rodina is a feminine word which is derived from the root "birth" - simply put, it's Personification Of Birth Country. It has no Mothers in it, which is why Russians are able to pair it with "Mother" in a poetic cliche "Родина-мать". Homeland Mother, like it's in the article now, is a fine compromise. AyeBraine (talk) 09:28, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Structural problems need to change paragraph
http://v1.ru/text/news/257051762909184.html - Source. Monument will be restored in 2017-2018 year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.81.203.161 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for interesting and important info, I added it to an article. But, next time try it yourself:) Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Facts section
The facts section says that a replica exists in the "city" of Manchuria China. It most likely refers to a city in Manchuria, if someone would like to find it and edit that section.

== Tallest statue of a woman

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 * Volgograd and the Motherland statue.JPG

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 * Родина Мать зовет.jpg

Section Deletion
I deleted the Facts sections for trivia reasons. I will redistribute the facts to their respective pages, but if anyone could help with that, that'd be wonderful. Here's the list:
 * The sculpture is depicted on the postage stamp of the GDR 1983.
 * A copy of the sculpture is present in Manzhouli, China.
 * The sculpture is also depicted on a 1975 one Ruble commemorative coin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beansohgod (talk • contribs) 13:38, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

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 * Почтова марка "Родина-мать зовёт!" ГДР 1983.jpg

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 * The motherland calls Mamayev Kurgan Volgograd.jpg

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 * The Motherland Calls.webp

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