Talk:The Real Housewives/Archive 1

Untitled
The "Real Housewives" page, which was created to link to the several Bravo TV series with Real Housewives in their titles has been marked. The reasons are, according to the page, no references or citations are given and very few pages link to it.

The page right now not only lists the titles of the series (eg. Real Housewives of Orange County, Real Housewives of Atlanta, etc.), but also names the participants of the shows, both past and current. This information would need to be cited, as without citations there is no way to verify the validity of the names of participants on these series.

As to the issue of linking to the page, I don't think this is an issue as the reason the "Real Housewives" stub was created was so when people typed into Wikipedia "Real Housewives," they wouldn't have to type the entire title of a particular Real Housewives series into the search engine. Having this page is convenient. Perhaps the pages on Wikipedia which refer to the specific series should each mention the fact that the "Real Housewives" branding has been popularly used for different series on the network. Thus, then the Real Housewives page could be referenced through these mentions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrickm5 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Linking to particular series
Use transparent links. Don't abuse piped links by linking to, e.g., The Real Housewives of Orange County with the text "Orange County". The link's target should be obvious by the link text alone. -- C. A. Russell ( talk ) 04:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Outdated
"The actor Bruce Willis, for example, might not be accorded as much prestige as former U.S. President Bill Clinton."

Obviously that was written before Die Hard 4 came out. --194.98.58.121 (talk) 13:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

General note
Hello all. I just wanted to remind everyone that this page is for "The Real Housewives of...." series. Any other series that are about housewives that do not contain "The Real Housewives of...." shouldn't be placed on this page. I removed Mulheres Ricas due to it being a series that is simply INSPIRED by the franchise. I hope this can clear up some confusion. --Recollected 00:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

These last two lines in the intro section make no sense (what "package" was not renewed?), but I will leave that to others to edit:  "More episodes of Orange County and an encore of Atlanta finished off the season. However, the package was not renewed for a further second season due to low ratings." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.14.200.52 (talk) 03:55, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Opening Sequence Statements
Although the material probably does not belong to this article page, The Real Housewives, there have been on-going contributions by editors in each individual series where the opening-sequence "quotations, "ie:(posted/displayed under each Housewife's name), like this: Lisa Vanderpump "In Beverly Hills, it's who you know, and I know everyone." (Season 1) "Life in Beverly Hills is a game and I make the rules." (Season 2) '''"Life isn't all diamonds and rosé, but it should be." (Season 3)''' (followed by a paragraph or so describing each Housewife) (and so on...). That is one example, but all of the opening-statements, (128 at last count), and the formatting that had been used was deleted by consensus in February of 2013. Currently, the information is not permitted to be used on Wikipedia.(again by consensus see The Real Housewives of New Jersey Talk Page for more info. about that process-and fear of having the info deleted again if it is added in any other format unless another consensus is reached.) Although the past way that editors had agreed to maintain and update the info.(with the most recent or current statement "bolded", along with the exact location, makes sense to me and the other editors who were able to update as new seasons and new statements were added, The information is/was vulnerable to deletion by editors who are mainly not familiar with the significance of the items. Wikipedia has policy in regards to "quotes"-so referring-to the quotations as "quotes"-is problematic, and to editors who were not aware that the statements were changed on a season-by-season basis, and the fact that the personal statements were/are anticipated elements of the series, and discussed online as-well as the mainstream media,(reasons why it is relevant!)... I am approaching this from a portal-wide view here, Television[], and trying to define the info. a little better such as adding it to this list, see the section titled "List of television series whose title sequences have regular subtle changes", at this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_sequence[]. Also there is the subject of sourcing. If anyone has any constructive ideas for re-formatting the information, or presenting it in a different way, please post those ideas. Right now the consensus has been made, but I plan on doing a portal-wide appeal the next time that any The Real Housewives franchise begins a new season,(the time when the new statements would be revealed and added to the currently unpublished, (at least here on Wikipedia), list.24.0.133.234 (talk) 00:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Points to keep in mind:(copied from the current section titled Cast Information from the Manual of Style guidelines page on Television Page)[] editing: ..."this could include main plot points about the character—followed by any relevant real world information that could include, but is not limited to, casting of the actor or how the character was created and developed over the course of the series. The key is to provide real world context to the character through production information, and without simply re-iterating IMDb."- I have done extensive research on Wikipedia for any reason why the information should not be included, and I have not found any other reason except for that the consensus noted above concluded that they don't like it.Everything else that I have seen points-to the info. being allowed/or encyclopedic reference material with an element of almanac-isim, (from 'The Five Pillars of Wikipedia"[]), which would indicate to me that it is "good"-info.24.0.133.234 (talk) 01:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Google Book Search for "Title Sequence" http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&tbm=bks&sclient=psy-ab&q=title+sequence+%22the+real+housewives%22&oq=title+sequence+%22the+real+housewives%22&gs_l=serp.3...16726.23158.5.23477.22.22.0.0.0.0.70.1147.22.22.0...0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.3BHgznYenBo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42452523,d.dmQ&fp=fcf2f3393d5460c4&biw=1440&bih=742http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&tbm=bks&sclient=psy-ab&q=title+sequence+%22the+real+housewives%22&oq=title+sequence+%22the+real+housewives%22&gs_l=serp.3...16726.23158.5.23477.22.22.0.0.0.0.70.1147.22.22.0...0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.3BHgznYenBo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42452523,d.dmQ&fp=fcf2f3393d5460c4&biw=1440&bih=742 From The OC: A Critical Understanding http://books.google.com/books?id=hnipAZkbVi8C&pg=PA183&dq=title+sequence+%22the+real+housewives%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=w2QdUanJOu6E0QHG5oAo&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=title%20sequence%20%22the%20real%20housewives%22&f=false page 183. (and this s/b a citation really) "For instance, each housewife has an associated tagline, which changes with each season and is included within the opening sequence of each episode. ...Bold text"24.0.133.234 (talk) 22:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the messy code there. Here is an example of what has been done with The Simpsons. In particular, "Opening Credits" is classified under, "Hallmarks"-("The Franchise"-bottom of page-expand to see).[]. There has been extensive editing and interest in The Simpsons Title-sequence, and I am not suggesting that The Real Housewives is of equal importance to The Simpsons movie or television, just illustrating how, (another) TV-show Opening Sequence info. has been, and how it has been included on Wikipedia. 24.0.133.234 (talk) 23:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Another The Simpsons example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Simpsons_couch_gags "Couch Gags"-in detail!24.0.133.234 (talk) 23:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

IF opening Sequence was done like The Simpsons/Made into a page
IF opening Sequence was done like The Simpsons/Made into a page

If The Real Housewives opening sequence was re-formatted from the previous way of doing-it, how would that work? Looking at the idea of making it a page like The Simpsons "Couch Gag"-page, and then I guess maybe linking it to each Real Housewives character paragraph on the individual show page, and/or in cases where a Real Housewife has her own page as well.

Q:How would it be laid-out?

Seasonally and by character in my opinion.But would it be better to create or use a template for ease-of-updating for future edits? Or lay it out like a page, like The Simpsons Couch Gags. (which is different in that The Simpsons changed by episode where The Housewives change Opening by season)

Q:What info should be included?

Who said it. Which season. Which franchise. ::+Sources-How should this be done? Some of the lines are more infamous, well-known and quoted than others. Some are only notable because they are part of the group.A little WikiQuote box could be added to the bottom of the page-The Real Housewives page IF all of the lines were moved to WikiQuote as a group, but to me that is not how it looks like it is done at WikiQuote, but personally I don't have experience with that so it could be do-able without creating new templates or categories at WikiQuote.

Q:Linking to other pages on Wikipedia/classifying and categorizing. I've already begun to add The Real Housewives to other pages that mention Opening Sequences. If this is created it should probably be linked to The Real Housewives pages and the women's individual pages if they have them unless a distinction is ever made between the women in "real" real-life, and the character they are on the show-(themselves, because it is reality television).

I like the idea of having all of the info. on a page but it is a lot of work and I'm also wondering if a smaller template (with room for expansion), that can be hidden/or shown or a plain template right where the info. used to be featured is still the better location.24.0.133.234 (talk) 04:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)24.0.133.234 (talk) 04:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Before you start worrying about layout, begin by worrying about reliable sources that establish the notability of the topic. Note that List of Simpsons couch gags has about 12 references entirely independent of the show that talk about it. Also, The Simpsons is a multiple award winning show, and is the "s the longest-running American sitcom, the longest-running American animated program, and in 2009 it surpassed Gunsmoke as the longest-running American primetime, scripted television series." This means that it's reasonable for it to have lots of ancillary pages, because it is a tremendous, long lasting phenomenon. The Real Housewives...well...isn't. Maybe in 20 years it will be...but that's not for us to decide now. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll have to agree with you there with most of what you said and right now it looks like the interest is not there for an entire page. Another reason not to give an entire page to "Opening Sequence", is that the characters/women, are not all considered interesting enough or notable enough for someone to create individual pages as far as I know, unless they just haven't been linked properly. If each woman already does, or did have her own page, the statements could fit there, although the statements are part-of the show and for past-characters/Housewives, such-as Danielle Staub, for instance, the statement, "You either love me or hate me"-probably would not be appropriate for a biographical page.I'm going to go up to the Q & A part here and add "Sources", because that is another thing that does need to be considered.24.0.133.234 (talk) 00:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is an Opening Sequence Wikipedia page,for a British television show which is less notable than The Simpsons, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_and_closing_sequences_of_The_Prisoner. Opening and closing sequences of The Prisoner. How it compares to The Real Housewives, that would depend-you could go by viewership numbers, or genre, since The Prisoner is a drama from the 1960's.-or other criteria such-as notability of the series in general since I don't know what if-any the Opening Sequence has to do with The Prisoner to make a stand alone page for that show. 24.0.133.234 (talk) 00:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Imitators/International
I added a remark to two international imitators of The Real Housewives. "Not affiliated with The Real Housewives"-just because those 2 international shows are technically not The Real Housewives, not named, "The Real Housewives"---BUT, they are kind-of similar, and people keep editing them back in. Rather than edit them out again, I left them in the "International"-section with some corrections. Sometimes news articles which are written for these imposter programs call them the "The Real Housewives of"--but really they are not. Maybe we could add an "Imitators"-box? I don't know-but I have watched these fake imitators and they may be of interest to people interested in The Real Housewives topic, so maybe there is a reason to keep them on the page?24.0.133.234 (talk) 04:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest adding a "Related Shows" box for the two 'imposter' programs, and clearly stating that these programs aren't affiliated with "The Real Housewives" franchise, even though they have a very similar concept.

'''But I'm not sure if ANY of the programs under the "International" section are affiliated with the franchise, except for The Real Housewives of Vancouver. In that case I would recommend adding the Vancouver installment to the first box under the "Current Installments" section and renaming this one "Related Shows". ''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.213.42 (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of adding Vancouver to "current installments"-and any other shows that are actually named "The Real Housewives of...", (part of the franchise, international or not). "Related shows"--for what is there now, I would agree is a pretty good idea, but there is a future problem. Brazil, and Israel, are not even called, "The Real Housewives...".

-That makes me wonder, what about a show like "Sin City Rules"-which was produced by the same people who produced The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and was considered for The Real Housewives of Las Vegas, but rejected--that would fit with those, "related"-shows, as far as The Real Housewives is considered-Not a "Housewives" title, but same style and format. I still like putting real "Real Housewives" in a separate section, and Vancouver is currently "current"---if it were done like that, would anyone mind if I put "Sin City Rules"-in the related pile? And are there others that would apply there? If no objections I'll change it like that in a few days 24.0.133.234 (talk) 16:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Over 1 year with this sloppy error!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Real_Housewives&diff=prev&oldid=481929917 That is when it happened. i have tried everything to get at this piece of code. Look at the bottom of the page. I don't even know what to call it. And I cannot fix it. If anyone knows how-help please. If not please leave this here as a place to make notes for this error. The protected Navbox? It looked like this when it went onto the page, "((The Real Housewives}}"--and there is some weird CSS error that I cannot seem to get to---HELP!24.0.133.234 (talk) 08:05, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. - DVdm (talk) 08:59, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank-YOU! That is so much better. I feel like I owe you a beer for that one24.0.133.234 (talk) 13:05, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem, make that a fourpack of Duvel Tripel Hop. Note that the problem was not here since 1 year. It was here since you made this edit to the template earlier today. The reason why it did not show in the old version you pointed to, is that in that edit the template was made unreachable due to a bad call. - DVdm (talk) 13:28, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

The funny thing is that I thought that I probably was the one who did that, but I didn't even know what kind of error it was--thank-you again for fixing it. I thought that if I could find a page version that didn't have the error I could find it that way and that was the latest non-error version that I could find-(but I still did not know what it was!)24.0.133.234 (talk) 07:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Because that "latest non-error version" of the article had an error calling the template. The article said ((The Real Housewives}} in stead of : mismatching opening parentheses instead of curly braces (See ). Look again at the diff and the bottom of that old version. You can actually see the failed call. There was nothing right or wrong with the template at that time — this article just failed to call it. - DVdm (talk) 07:43, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes I could see that part but I when I tried to actually get to the code to fix it, I could not. Maybe because I was IP editing?24.0.133.234 (talk) 16:24, 14 May 2013 (UTC)