Talk:The Tigger Movie

Just Wondering
I was just wondering why songs and the controversy are littled before the movie's plot, which I would think should be considered of higher importance. I don't want to screw around with anything; I just joined today, so I'm not comfortable with (and not sure how to) changing things around.

So, opinions? Should we move the plot to the top of the article?--DeaderRose 01:43, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I made the changes, and it looks like I don't break the website doing it. DeaderRose 19:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sequel
In an October 2008 interview, Kenny Loggins said that he is working on a children's record for Disney that will tie into a new Tigger movie. Following this interview, one of his songs was featured in a My Friends Tigger and Pooh movie. Is it possible that he was reffering to that? 69.204.109.18 (talk) 00:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Any interpretation on what he meant beyond "a new Tigger movie" is speculation and conjecture. Without hearing a followup question in a newer interview, we have to assume that he meant exactly what he said - that it is a "new Tigger movie". SpikeJones (talk) 03:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Production
Does the fact that the film was animated by Walt Disney Animation, Japan really need a citation? The studio is mentioned multiple times in the credits, so I don't see how it's any more in question than Jim Cummings being the voice of Pooh and Tigger. Much as I like TMS, they're merely one of many secondary studios who contributed additional animation to the film and they did it through a second studio. I'm not sure it makes sense to mention one secondary/tertiary studio that worked on the film in particular. Moving some of the information on the Sherman Brothers work on the film and how it became a theatrical release from the Soundtrack section to here could help to beef up this section. Demonskrye (talk) 00:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Disney MovieToon
Disney MovieToon is credited with the movie:
 * 1) MovieWeb indicates that there is a unit of Disney TV Animation involved: The art direction, character designs and storyboarding for the film were all done in California by a special unit of Walt Disney Television Animation."
 * 2) The Tigger Movie (2000) Full Production Credits: "DisneyToon Studios - Production Company" And AllMovie is not a user edited website.
 * 3) Animation Magazine: "Walt Disney Co. is shutting down Tokyo-based Walt Disney Animation (Japan). The animation studio produced many direct-to-video titles and theatrical releases like The Tigger Movie and this summer’s Piglet’s Big Movie for DisneyToon Studios."
 * 4) awn.com article: "DisneyToon Studios Prexy Morrill Steps Down": "Morrill began the division in 2001 to extended Disney's animated franchises and oversaw satellite studios in other countries which contributed to the production of many titles, such as PIGLET'S BIG MOVIE, POOH'S HEFFALUMP MOVIE, THE JUNGLE BOOK 2 and THE TIGGER MOVIE along with home video titles, such as BAMBI II, BROTHER BEAR 2, LION KING 2: SIMBA'S PRIDE, LADY AND THE TRAMP 2, POOH'S GRAND ADVENTURE and LION KING 1-1/2." Not sure how they got the year wrong here as they even indicate three pre-2001 movies including The Tigger Movie, Pooh's Grand Adventure and Lion King 2.


 * Disney MovieToons have existed since 1990:
 * 1) WP Review of DuckTales movie: "'DuckTales: The Movie' is the first feature from the new Disney Movietoons division."
 * 2) DisneyToon Studios Builds Slate Under New Name and Homes for Needy: "The animation unit responsible for Disney's DVD-premiere movies such as THE LION KING 2: SIMBA'S PRIDE has been renamed DisneyToon Studios. The new name and logo were officially unveiled on June 5, 2003, at an internal event held at the Alex Theatre in Glendale. The new division, which split from Walt Disney Television Animation in January, is overseen by evp Sharon Morrill, in charge of all aspects of production and development for the Disney Video Premieres and MovieToons produced by DisneyToon Studios."
 * 3) Variety: "DisneyToon studios has produced 47 films overall, starting with “DuckTales: The Movie Treasure of the Lost Lamp,” in 1990."

So Disney MovieToons/DisneyToon Studios should be credit with The Tigger Movie. Spshu (talk) 22:40, 8 September 2015 (UTC) -
 * @ Disney MovieToon is credited with the movie:


 * 1) MovieWeb proves that it was called just Disney TV Animation and it had no other name. Just like it was credited in the film's credits (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dxuf7CUvKE @5:34 min) and just like it was credited in all reliable sources from that time.
 * 2) Allmovie accepts user-submitted corrections if you provide a source - so it is easy to deceive them with a source that has misattributed credits. So, the Allmovie's reliability and thus the NYT's reliability are questionable.
 * 3) MovieToons is nowhere mentioned...
 * 4) MovieToons is nowhere mentioned...


 * @ Disney MovieToons have existed since 1990:


 * 1) DuckTales the Movie: Treasure of the Lost Lamp is the only film credited with Disney MovieToons. 10 years later they chose not to use this label - why not, it is not important. They credited WDTA and this article should reflect that. Something more about MovieToons.
 * 2) DisneyToon Studios Builds Slate Under New Name and Homes for Needy: "The animation unit ... has been renamed DisneyToon Studios. ... The new division, which split from Walt Disney Television Animation in January...." So, before January 2003, there was Walt Disney Television Animation. Even more, it says "The new division, which split from Walt Disney Television Animation in January, is overseen by evp Sharon Morrill, in charge of all aspects of production and development for the Disney Video Premieres and MovieToons produced by DisneyToon Studios." So, MovieToons and Disney Video Premieres were separate labels. DVP was credited with The Return of Jafar and not MovieToons, so, by your interpretation, The Return of Jafar is not a MovieToons' production. The correct answer is - DVP and MovieToons were just labels, for which a unit within WDTA was producing films.
 * 3) DTS is credited because it is a quasi successor to a no-name WDTA unit, which was specialized for DTV films. What happened to that unit afterwards and what names it has been given is of no relevance for the infobox. WDTA was its name then, so the infobox should reflect that and should not be updated whenever its name changes.
 * Another thing. You are inconsistent with yourself. You want to credit the production studio by its current name, while you let the the distribution company be called by its original name, and not by its current name.--Carniolus (talk) 20:39, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

-
 * Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios) is credited with the movie:
 * MovieWeb "proves that it was called just Disney TV Animation and it had no other name." No it doesn't not. While Disney TV Animation (DTVA) is correct as a division, in this case MovieToons, is a part of it. The article indicates that there is some other unit internal to DTVA with out specifying its name: "...by a special unit of Walt Disney Television Animation."
 * NYT also uses Baseline with Allmovie. Allmovie doesn't guarantee acceptance per your link.
 * "MovieToons is nowhere mentioned..." As the article was written post June 5, 2003 (Sep 23rd, 2003), its then current name under Disney Feature Animation/Walt Disney Animation Studios is mention: "DisneyToon Studios". I even provided it in "Disney MovieToons have existed since 1990" #2: "DisneyToon Studios Builds Slate Under New Name and Homes for Needy"
 * Again DisneyToons, the division's current name, was cited as the article was dated June 21, 2007.
 * Note that your BFI indicates that DTS/DVP VP "Sharon Morrill Robinov" (I assume she doesn't use her married name professionally) as "Executive in Charge of Production".
 * Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios)
 * Your links shows that Disney MovieToons became DisneyToon Studios. This supports my position. WDTA is credited in the article. Is that your point, that some how if we indicates DTS's involvement that some how that undermines WTDA's credit in the article? Do you have any concept of what a division is? If you credit DTS pre-2003 then you in effect credit WTDA, since it was a division of WTDA.
 * Yes, there was a DTVA before and after January 2003 that negates or disproves anything. So what that MovieToons and Disney Video Premieres were separate labels, they were labels from a single division based on whether the film ended up as a theatrical release (DMT) or DTV releases (DVP). You don't have any type of argument here. It had a cumbersome name. I wish I could find the source, but the division/unit name was something like "Disney MovieToons/Disney Video Premieres and TV Specials". "DVP was credited with The Return of Jafar and not MovieToons, so, by your interpretation, The Return of Jafar is not a MovieToons' production." Yes and no, It is the same unit, DMT/DVP/TVS (WP common name to DMT & given its unwieldiness the reason for its name change), thus a MovieToon production but not under the MovieToon label. "The correct answer is - DVP and MovieToons were just labels, for which a unit within WDTA was producing films." Then why are you fighting against this?
 * "DTS is credited because it is a quasi successor to a no-name WDTA unit, which was specialized for DTV films. " No the AWN articles ("New Name") clearly indicates that it was a part of DTVA then moved to Disney Feature Animation complete with its head EVP Morrill and its slate. It wasn't a no name unit but just present one of its labels at a time if allow at all.
 * It currently is consistent and with myself (as I did not mess with the distributor). First correction I made was DTS instead of DMT, but you have not bother to look to see that it is currently correctly credit as DMT (DTVA).
 * Reliable sources indicate what the unmentioned by name unit is called as they gave it credit. So they should included instead of not being included based on the policy of the time of crediting them or not not crediting them. Spshu (talk) 15:37, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

-
 * @ Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios) is credited with the movie
 * MovieWeb does not say that it was called MovieToons, so you only assume that. The only thing for sure is that there was a group of people working within WDTVA. With a name or not.
 * Of course it does not guarantee acceptance, but there exists a probability that Allmovie would change credits when someone provides them reliable sources. Allmovie's and thus NYT's credibility is questionable.
 * Again, this article does not connect MovieToons to this film or to DisneyToons since MovieToons is nowhere mentioned. Even if it would, MovieToons isn't credited in the film. The other source only proves that the MovieToons label was used once, in 1990. Nothing about its existence since then.
 * Yes, DisneyToons Studio was cited in this article, and it does not establish a connection with MovieToons.


 * According to this source: "The Return of Jafar was never intended to be a movie sequel to Aladdin. Rather, the story was composed of the first five episodes of the Aladdin animated television series produced by Walt Disney Television Animation. Because the episodes told a complete story in roughly 90 minutes, Disney decided to release them on video as a single movie. The success of this decision launched a new division within TV animation which develops and produces animated films specifically intended for direct-to-video release."


 * So:
 * The Return of Jafar was produced by Walt Disney Television Animation - the same company and the same unit that produced other episodes for the Aladdin series.
 * Only after the release of The Return of Jafar in 1994, they created a direct-to-video unit within WDTVA. In 1997, they called it (unofficially) Direct-to-Videos: "which Sharon Morrill, Vice President of Direct-to-Videos at Walt Disney Television Animation..." So, why did they have to create a new unit if MovieToons had already existed since 1990? Even the MovieToons logo that is shown in front of DuckTales the Movie: Treasure of the Lost Lamp is just a label. The actual studio that was credited with the film was Walt Disney Animation (France): BFI.


 * @ Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios)
 * Where do my links say that MovieToons became DTS? In fact, as I've explained above, a direct-to-video unit was established in 1994 - four years after the MovieToons' first and only film. As I am saying since the beginning I don't deny that DTS is now credited with the film, or that a division whatever-was-called-then actually produced the film, I only insist that the infobox reflects actual credits. Disney credited WDTVA as the producer, so only this studio should be there. All additional explanations can be in the production section.
 * Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials was mentioned by Variety in 1998, 1999 and 2000, so obviously some entity or label with that name existed at the time of the film. But, they still chose not to credit MovieToons. Infobox is for the companies that were originally credited. Any other info belongs elsewhere.
 * AWN does not say that it is the successor to MovieToons or to Disney Video Premieres, just that DTS was producing for MT and DVP before its split. Actually this article says that "the animation unit responsible for Disney's DVD-premiere ... has been renamed DisneyToon Studios" and that "Morrill's group produces MovieToon theatrical releases". So, according to this article, the DTS' predecessor was a unit that did not produce theatrical releases.


 * Your inconsistency was regarding your conclusion here that DisneyToons Studios should be credited with the film, and regarding your refs which mostly just give credits to DTS.


 * And another thing - I am against crediting in infoboxes companies that are not explicitly credited as "produced by", which, in this case, is only Walt Disney Television Animation. Why? Because, if you watch the film's credits, you'll see that, beside Walt Disney Animation (Japan), Inc. and Simex Digital Studios, there are many other companies that contributed to the film:
 * Tandem Films Entertainment, Ltd.
 * Cornerstone Animation Inc.
 * Studio Basara
 * Tama Production
 * Creative Capers Entertainment
 * Telecom Animation Film Co., Ltd
 * Studio Fuga
 * Studio Moonflower
 * Studio Frontier
 * Buena Vista Imaging
 * Digital Filmworks, Inc.
 * E-Film
 * Listing every single company in the infobox would be untidy and would not give the proper importance to the studio that actually initiated and managed the production. This studio (or its parent) chose all other companies which can be regarded as "contractors". Better place for them would be somewhere in the production section.---Carniolus (talk)
 * Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios) is credited with the movie:
 * No, you are twisting what you found and are miss stating what I said about the MovieWeb. article. You found MovieWeb and attempt to incorrectly claim that it "proves that it was called just Disney TV Animation and it had no other name." The article expressly indicates an internal unit did work on it and did not give its name, not that no name was given.
 * This still does not show that it is a wiki level editing and no editorial oversite of Allmovie. Errors still crop up in regular news article with one indicating that MovieToons/DisneyToons started in 2001. Heck even newspapers are know to print that they made an error (at a reader's promoting) or correct their articles.
 * Yes, it does as it states in the opening paragraph: "The animation studio produced many direct-to-video titles and theatrical releases like The Tigger Movie and this summer’s Piglet’s Big Movie for DisneyToon Studios." Yes, the "DisneyToon Studios Builds Slate Under New Name" shows that the unit transfer from Disney TV Animation did both MovieToons and direct to video. "The new division, which split from Walt Disney Television Animation in January, is overseen by evp Sharon Morrill, in charge of all aspects of production and development for the Disney Video Premieres and MovieToons produced by DisneyToon Studios" "In addition, Morrill's group produces MovieToon theatrical releases, including the successful RETURN TO NEVERLAND, THE JUNGLE BOOK 2 and PIGLET'S BIG MOVIE." It does not as you assert prove that MovieToons label was only used in 1990.
 * Regarding the start of the DTV unit in WDTA with "Return to Jafar". True. Being only an unit, which is the name for the smallest of business units/divisions, it could be a unit (but a division by the time of the article) within the MovieToons division, a division of WDTA. Then DTV (Video Premieres) grew to be an equal part in the MovieToons division (in the scenario being a unit of DMT, thus DMT and Video Premieres only being labels). MovieToons could have merged later with Direct to Videos. The original DMT unit could have been dismantled (having little output) with the remainder either used to start or transferred into the DTV unit thus inheriting the MovieToons name. We don't have the full history of the unit(s). "So, why did they have to create a new unit if MovieToons had already existed since 1990?" Doesn't have a clear answer. Perhaps their was an assumption by the writer that entering a new market means a new division. Article stated the division started in 2001, which is clearly wrong. All I can do is go back as far as I can. So, the possible separate Movietoons and Direct to Video (Disney Video Premieres) are handled in the same article
 * MovieToons is just not a label, that is your assumption, as per the source I cited indicated that MovieToons was a division at that time. [[Washington Post article ‘DuckTales: The Movie‘]: "'DuckTales: The Movie' is the first feature from the new Disney Movietoons division."
 * Disney MovieToon/Disney Video Premieres/TV Specials (currently DisneyToon Studios)
 * "Where do my links say that MovieToons became DTS?" My sources do and MovieWeb supported that possibility. "As I am saying since the beginning I don't deny that DTS is now credited with the film, or that a division whatever-was-called-then actually produced the film, I only insist that the infobox reflects actual credits." Yes you have denied DMT/DVP/TV Special credit: edit at DMT/DTS that removed credit, denial of DTS/MTS in 3,4. "MovieToons is nowhere mentioned..." looking past the DTS credits.
 * Now you are getting warmer. They don't have to credit a division if they don't want to.
 * No. You completely contradict directly your own source which "In addition, Morrill's group produces(sic) MovieToon theatrical releases, including the successful RETURN TO NEVERLAND, THE JUNGLE BOOK 2 and PIGLET'S BIG MOVIE." Return to Neverland was in 2002 (while in WDTA). Jungle Book 2 was in February 2003, which was one month (?) after being transferred. While Piglet's movie came out 2 months after transferred. A one month turn around on a movie? Note "In addition..." is in addition to "video/DVD premiere movies." So, no the article does indicate that they do not make theatrical releases; in fact the article states it does make theatrical releases. "AWN does not say that it is the successor to MovieToons or to Disney Video Premieres..." No it directly states that it is that division, while new to Disney Feature Animation: "The new division, which split from Walt Disney Television Animation in January, ..."
 * "Your inconsistency was regarding your conclusion here that DisneyToons Studios should be credited with the film, and regarding your refs which mostly just give credits to DTS." You still don't make any sense. You indicate that I inconsistent in concluding DTS should be credit because I have sources that credit DTS because that it is current name. That is not inconsistent that is consistent. The articles are about DTS or related unit Disney Animation Japan. My credit DTS does not in any way stop you from crediting other companies. The whole of this discussion about whether or not to indicate DTS/DMT is involved give after the fact sources that indicated in effect that they were uncredited.
 * Regarding infobox credits, sure a laundry list of companies isn't necessary given that not all did the primary work. Yes, I did see a bunch of company's at BFI's Sight and Sound Review for Tigger thus included SimEx Digital Studios in the infobox. So I am fine with DTS not being in the infobox if it is listed in the production section as being uncredited or credit as WDTA. Spshu (talk) 14:44, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Why is it referred to as the first feature Pooh film? It isn't.
The second line at the top of this article says:

"The film was the first feature-length theatrical Pooh film that was not a collection of previously released shorts."

This is patently false. The 1997 film "Pooh's Grand Adventure: The Search for Christopher Robin" fits this description too, and came out three years earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pooh's_Grand_Adventure%3A_The_Search_for_Christopher_Robin

I figured I would inquire before fixing this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falkenstein007 (talk • contribs) 04:54, 8 May 2022 (UTC)