Talk:Theological veto

Seems odd to me that this article doesn't mention Islam at all, because partial limited versions of this prevailed at different periods of Muslim history (e.g. the defeat of the Mu`tazilites, the rise of Occasionalism, the influence of al-Ghazali, etc.). -- AnonMoos (talk) 01:27, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It's about theism in general. The article doesn't mention Christianity in particular either. If we get into particular theist religions we should at least try to be equal opportunity about it. Greg Bard (talk) 01:45, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Nevertheless, there's an obvious reference to the Scopes "monkey" trial (1925), and most of the linked terms in the second sentence of the first paragraph are specifically Christian (sometimes specifically Protestant). It's a little strange that the article seems to effectively focus on Protestant fundamentalism over the last 85 years only, when the topic of the article has probably played a greater role in Islamic-influenced civilization over the last centuries than Christian-influenced civilization... AnonMoos (talk) 02:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm not seeing it at all. The linked concepts are present in varying forms Christianity, including Catholicism (even if the actual articles linked only portray the Protestant version of the particular concept). If you perceive that the article is focused on some particular brand of theism, I would suggest politely that it could be a persecution complex that has become very very common lately. Certainly any instances of theological veto in Islam would be welcome, but I think several of the same concepts apply in that case also. Perhaps those articles need content on Islam too? Happy Holidays. Greg Bard (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps there are concepts in various religions that have similarities. But I am concerned by the attempt to collect them all and stick the phrase "theological veto" to them. Does this phrase as it is actually used really apply to all of them? Is this phrase even notable in the first place? At the moment there's really only one article linked, the Ferre citation. Plus a one-off quotation from 1925. Trying to come up with our own examples from Islam or anywhere else so we can stick the phrase to it, I think just makes things worse.


 * And sure, I may well have a persecution complex, but as they say, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. --God made the integers (talk) 20:50, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Lack of context
The first several book citations of this associate it strongly with Karl Barth. I think we need a lot of expansion along those lines. Mangoe (talk) 21:22, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Not fundamentalism
We have a problem here already in that if the Ferre citation is any good (which I can't tell because there's no page number), it's unlikely that a general reference on philosophy of religion would make such POV statements if it were of any merit. But be that as it may, the issue of a theological veto is not limited to fundamentalists. I'm pretty sure that Catholic and Orthodox theology would admit of such a limitation on reason as well. Mangoe (talk) 00:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The inclusion in a category doesn't imply exclusion in others, so I don't see what the problem is. I'll look into the page number issue soon. It is certainly not the case that the theological veto is "not fundamentalism." Greg Bard (talk) 01:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

What is a "theological veto"? And what should we do about this article?
A lot of concerns have been raised about this article. Among other concerns:
 * The article's topic lacks notability.
 * There are only two sources.
 * The few sources we have are themselves poor.
 * These issues have persisted over a long period of time.

I decided to look up the first of the two sources: Frederick Ferre's book Basic Modern Philosophy of Religion. The term comes up on page 22 of the book. It's also discussed in The Modern Predicament: A Study in the Philosophy of Religion by HJ Paton. I think the notion of a theological veto is a real one. It's a very small issue in philosophy of religion, and is lucky to get a paragraph or two in most Phil of religion books (hence the scant sourcing). The real issue I think is the name of this issue. The issue doesn't have a particularly well-established, widely-used name. "Theological veto" is more like slang, or an arbitrarily coined term for it.

At its core, the issue is raised as an objection to the enterprise of philosophy of religion as a whole. As such, I think in philosophy of religion, this topic ought to be a subsection of a larger article which attacks philosophy of religion as a whole. I'll think about this issue more.

—Approaching (talk) 23:04, 1 June 2018 (UTC)