Talk:Three Beauties of the Present Day

Hairstyle
Per the comments on the FA review, I discovered what the hairstyle is called. It is 燈籠鬢島田髷 （とうろうびんしまだまげ）. Here is an illustration of how to make it. They use a kind of brace ( 鬢張り　びんはり) to hold up the flares on the side. There are videos of how to make it -- it takes almost 30 minutes. This hairstyle seems to be a characteristic of Utamaro. It appears in almost all of his bijinga and he's often mentioned in connection with it.

Here is an academic paper on it, called The Birth of "TOROBIN" : The Reception of Chinese Culture in Edo Period [in Japanese]. If we talk about it, it could be used in a cite.

So perhaps the text could say that Toyohina's kimono is more elegant than the simple ones of the other 2 models, but all 3 models have a distinctive flaring hairstyle was popular at the period and that is a characteristics of Utamaro's bijinga. I don't know if we have to mention the full name in the text -- "tōrōbin-shimadamage" is quite a mouthfull. But we could mention it in a note. Also I've seen 2 explanations for the name Lantern 1) Most often, that there is space between the individual strands of hair, so that you can see through it to the background, like a lantern. 2) Once, that it resembles the overhanging eaves of a lantern. And I don't like the word "sideburns" that you see used to translate "鬢 Bin". We'd have to think of a better word than that. – Margin1522 (talk) 07:23, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I just dropped mention of the hairstyle right when you messaged me about this. I'm not sure how well it will go down to talk about the hairstyle if the sources for the picture don't talk about it.  There's an article on the Shimada (hairstyle)—perhaps this info could go there, and we could link to it?  I have seen "sideburns" used to describe female 'burns, but always in the context of white men who find it disgusting that Asian girls won't shave them. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:54, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I've restored mention of the hair (without a comparison to the other two) and linked to Shimada (hairstyle). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:59, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * How about if we add the following to the Shimada article?
 * "An elaborate version of the Shimada that became popular in the mid-Edo period (18th century) was called the Tōrōbin Shimada. It featured wide flares at the side and is often seen in ukiyo-e prints by artists such as Utamaro. The name means 'Lantern Shimada', and is said to refer to the way that the background can be seen through the flares on side, like scenery seen through a tōrō lantern."
 * And we could add the print of Toyohisa reading the letter, where you can see the background showing through. Or the Hairdresser print from the Utamaro article. That would give an idea of how the hairstyle is made.
 * And then in this article, we could say that like the other 2 models she is wearing this elaborate hairstyle that was popular at the time. But the kimonos are different. The hairstyle is pretty striking, I think people might be interested. – Margin1522 (talk) 14:00, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 21:42, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done. – Margin1522 (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Sumptuary edicts
I found a reference for the censorship mentioned on the FA review pages. "Another example was the ban in 1793 on prints with the names of women other than courtesans. The intention appeared to involve a desire to maintain social distinctions by protecting the reputations of women who, although connected with the floating world, were not actually prostitutes, such as geisha and teahouse waitresses. FAQ: What were sumptuary edicts?" This is good overall on this topic. It also explains what was in the sharebon that got Kyōden in trouble. – Margin1522 (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course it's plausible—even likely—but without a Reliable Source linking this driectly to Utamaro, this is WP:SYNTHESIS, or possibly even WP:OR. Both the Viewing Japanese Prints article and Julie Nelson Davis's Utamaro and the Spectacle of Beauty mention the edicts, but only in the context of Kōmei Bijin Rokkasen from 1796.  Japanese sources are the most likely to spell these things out, but I think you're probably aware that that means you probably won't find something online (unless it's a blog or some other non-RS)—Japan seems intent on keeping its texts analogue. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:20, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * How true. Hmm. Rather than OR it seems to me like this is more of a logical deduction. But I guess if we don't have a direct source it could be left as a topic for further study. – Margin1522 (talk)
 * OR is probably too far (I'm just not sure where the line between SYTH and OR is), but "deduction" is pretty much what WP:SYNTH is: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." This means that, sometimes, something you know to be true simply has to be dropped from the article.  For instance, I happen to know that Françoise Mouly's birthday is October 24, 1955—I even have e-mail verification—but it's a fact that hasn't been mentioned in RSes—so we're stuck with plain 1955 in the article. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:01, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

TFAR discussion for this article
Please see Today's featured article/requests/Three Beauties of the Present Day. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 00:44, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

== File:Kitagawa Utamaro - Toji san bijin (Three Beauties of the Present Day)From Bijin-ga (Pictures of Beautiful Women), published by Tsutaya Juzaburo - Google Art Project.jpg to appear as POTD soon == Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Kitagawa Utamaro - Toji san bijin (Three Beauties of the Present Day)From Bijin-ga (Pictures of Beautiful Women), published by Tsutaya Juzaburo - Google Art Project.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on June 1, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-06-01. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:42, 15 May 2016 (UTC)