Talk:Titanic acid

This is an imaginary compound and does not exist. Possibly proposed by geochemists to explain mobilization of TiO2 under acid conditions. This article should be killed.--Smokefoot 04:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * FYI, added the disputed flag to the article, per above. Before removing the flag, please provide specific links regarding Titanic acid's existence and the information in the article.  (The general link currently in the article isn't specific to Titanic acid.) Dugwiki 22:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm no chemist, but there seem to be a number of google hits associated with Titanic acid, including some articles. Some of them are related to "peroxo titanic acid" - but even excluding that there are around 427 ghits http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Titanic+acid%22+TiO2+-wikipedia+-peroxo . Is existance of this chemical disputed ? I.e. some people say it exists / some people don't - or is this an outright hoax ?


 * If it's disputed - then we should have the article, if it's a hoax then we shouldn't. Megapixie 23:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Upon reflection and with a greater appreciation that WE describes stuff, for good or for worse, there should be an article on titanic acid. At the present rate of writing for content-rich chem articles, it will be a few years before this one is fleshed out.  --Smokefoot 00:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There are plenty of google links to titanic acid.

--Light current 20:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There are suppliers that advertise selling it and articles that discuss making and using it. Sounds real to me. DMacks 21:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I could not find any links to suppliers (but I did not look very good). Could you provide some (deep)links for Smokefoot, Dugwiki (see post of July 20) and me? (on the talk page), and some chemical data in a chembox new on the page?  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 22:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking about ghost: 183.000 hits in Google. Which supplier does sell titanic acid? --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Polywater gave me 63,000 hits in Google.--Smokefoot 23:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For now I don't see any links, I am putting back the disputed tag. Remember, this is not a delete tag or something similar, it's just, many of the (few) hits on Google are not titanic acid, they are 'titanic acid anhydride' (or similar wording).  The article has a right to exist, if it explains clearly what it is, for now, it may be real, it may be unreal.  Please do not remove the disputed tag until the article contains some serious chemical data (I mean mp, bp, density, but not Mw), and some links to literature (patents, peer reviewed journals, not including calculations on (maybe) hypothetical compounds).  I will also have a look myself.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 06:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Not at work now so I can't get the full ref and track the footnotes or CAS numbers, but a quickie so you know I'm not completely off my rocker here...an ACS abstracts search pulled up: "Sulfated titania catalysts were prepared by precipitation of titanic acid from titanium tetrachloride using aqueous ammonia, followed by impregnation with sulfuric acid." (Ind. Eng. Chem. Res., 37 (10), 3869-3878). Googling for the formula "H2TiO3" found me Chem. Mater. 2004, 16, 1062-1067 and an apparent supplier: http://tmc.co.kr/tio2MTAhan.htm supplier] (apparently...I can't read .jp, but the MW matches). DMacks 07:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC) (moved down --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC))
 * I have seen some of those, also, indeed (that is, the summary in the google-hit). First, I don't believe Mw here, in general you calculate that (if there is an Mw-measurement, it's OK with me).  For me this feels more like 'TiO2.H2O', than like H2TiO3.  Therefore I wanted to hear something about measured values, determined stuctures, connectivities, whatever.  If this is the name given to 'hydrated titanium oxide' by engineers, OK, then the article should state that.  It is just (and I am a molecular chemist), TiO2 does not dissolve in water (well, maybe homeopatic concentrations), If you hydrolyse TiCl4 by pouring it in water, you get TiO2 and HCl.  The supplier link gives '94% TiO2', 'TiO2 . 1 H2O' would require approx. 81.5% TiO2.  I'll give it a go when I have access to real literature (and a Strem catalogue?).  Cheers anyway.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 07:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

To make it more confusing, in addition to H2TiO3 ("metatitanic acid"), a bit more searching finds references to H4TiO4 as "orthotitanic acid"—googling for that latter formula if you can read chinese or russian might be useful. Aha...looks like the meta one is CAS #12026-28-7. I'm organic, not that familiar with the inorganic/ceramic-centric databases we might need to find properties. DMacks 07:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The naming meta and ortho is here systematic, so that makes sense. But having a CAS number is helpful (the page is further completely useless, no data at all, as it already disclaims ..).  I'll have a go in Chemical sources when I am in the lab.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 07:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * CAS number is 20338-08-3 (verified). Physchim62 (talk) 15:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)