Talk:Tokenism/Archives/2015

Franklin from Peanuts
From the Franklin page: "At a time when segregation was an ongoing national debate, the introduction of Franklin proved somewhat controversial. Schulz, however, insisted that there was no political motivation in his introduction. No one in the strip ever mentioned the fact that Franklin was black, merely accepting him as part of the gang.

Franklin sits in front of Peppermint Patty in school, and is the center-fielder of her baseball team. Franklin acts as a thoughtful foil to Linus, and is as adept at quoting the Old Testament as Linus is. One connection that Franklin and Charlie Brown have is their mutual interest in their grandfathers. With few anxieties or obsessions, Franklin could be considered one of the less interesting of the characters in the Peanuts universe." I don't know if this would qualify as a token character, being that his color, not his personality, is what sets him apart as a character.

Tolkenism in Early Modern Art
The following was recently added to the article. I believe it needs a lot of cleanup, NPOV and sourcing before getting placed into the article.
 * Tolkenism in Early Modern Art
 * Tolkenism is often employed by a majority in order to avoid the charge that a minority group has been excluded. Within art histories and biographies, women artists were often shown as examples who were exceptions to the rule and illustrated that it was possible for women to create art.  Despite this, a women's education did not encourage the creation of fine art, but served rather as a tolken measure that allowed them to learn specific skills and subjects termed "accomplishments" that were useful for the running of a household and amusement of her husband.  Reading was encouraged, particuarly of conduct books that would properly socialize an unruly woman; writing was not encouraged because self-expression was deemed dangerous and inappropriate.  Training in the arts was structured in a similarly token way with arts such as embroidery and flower-painting encouraged for women yet belittled as lower arts, deemed “crafts”.  Entry into more important arts such as historical portraiture was barred because drawing from the nude figure was not allowed.While these tokens tend toward an increase in  women's education, it is possible that they had the opposite effect, allowing those in power to claim that a woman's education was already sufficient and that change was in no way necessary or desirable.

Don't merge--but needs more tolkenism sections
Tolkenism isn't just about token characters in casts of shows. It also exists in the workplace, where a member of a minority group is employed more for the sake of diversity than for his or her skills. It also exists in social situations, such as a black acquaintance being asked to a party primarily because of their skin color. For these reasons, this topic shouldn't be merged with "token character".

External references: Tolkenism in the workplace, http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/token.htm

Satirical website on social tolkenism, http://www.rent-a-negro.com/

For the same reasons as above I also oppose merger--LukeSurl 01:12, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm pritty sure that Tolkenism and Tolken Character are not the same, but what if Tolken Character was changed from being an artical to being a sub-section in the Tolkenism article?
 * Support merge into Tolkenism, per above anonymous comment.  Neon    Merlin   17:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Support merge into Tolkenism: the 'tolkenism' page should be sufficient to cover both real-world tolkenism, and token characters in fiction. The word 'tolkenism' can refer to either phenomenon. Terraxos 01:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I did the merge, placing token character in its own section. Breed Zona 16:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Definition is too narrow
Tolkenism refers to making any type of symbolic effort, not just in regards to race. It could just as well be used to describe an ethnic female boss' response towards a white male employee, whose cause she sees as insignificant but requiring some type of action. Article as it stands should be merged with tolken character and a new article should be written using a broader definition.

George W. Bush
Hi I was just wondering if anyone could add information that George W. Bush practices tokenism, since he hired Alberto Gonzales, Colin Powell, and Condoleeza Rice, when he is, in fact, a racist. (See Hurricane Katrina)


 * Bush doesn't control the weather. however, political tokenism, might deserve mention 67.176.160.47 (talk) 04:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

This entire section should be deleted, it is highly offensive and contains absolutely no citations for the ridiculous claims that it makes. If no one objects I will be deleting the George W. Bush segment from this talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.214.65 (talk) 21:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Spelling!
It's spelled T-O-K-E-N or T-O-K-E-N-I-S-M not T-O-L-K-E-N or T-O-L-K-E-N-I-S-M. There's no L in the word! Anywhere! Ever!

Yeah out of interest where did the "tolken" spelling come from ?? Machete97 (talk) 21:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Death
Should it be mentioned that the 'Token Black Guy' is often the only/first member of the protagonist group to die in a number of blockbusters?
 * I think it should, in many blockbusters the 'Token Black Guy' die, usually he sacrifice himself to save the 'good white couple', and he shoots enemy like a brutal crazy gunner => stereotype of wild black guy with bigs muscles. The sacrifice stereotype is showed in South Park episode "Die Hippie, Die".

Ira Kane: Hey, cool! Snag one!

Harry Block: Snag one?

Ira Kane: Yeah, snag it and put it in the bucket!

Harry Block: No way!

Ira Kane: Come on, it's for science.

Harry Block: I've seen this movie, the black dude dies first. YOU snag it!

from the film evolution Machete97 (talk) 21:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * a citation would be nice, also, listing movies that actually do it would be better, than ones that parody it. of course the reason they are killed off, is they are secondary characters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.160.47 (talk) 04:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Token Black
Is Token Black (of South Park fame) really all that notable to the subject? Quite frankly, I think that the reference feels a bit added on, and it doesn't really contribute to understanding of the subject. I therefore suggest that it be removed - I would do it myself, but I feel that I do not have enough experience to make an informed decision on the matter. Does anyone else have any input? 76.71.34.9 (talk) 01:34, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Woody Allen quote
It's hard to tell if he was just relating his experience or making fun of the concept. Anyway I don't think it reflects the typical experience of a person hired as a token. Kitfoxxe (talk) 03:57, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I took off the joke. It seems to me that it could also be a copyright issue. Do we have the right to reprint people's jokes? Kitfoxxe (talk) 04:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)