Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C./Archive 2

Current 2007-08 season list cup results
They finished fifth and qualified for European cup play. How did they do?Radio Guy (talk) 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC) Radio Guy (talk) 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Unless I have somehow slept through the rest of this season I believe we are at thispoit in time still in the EUFA Cup and at the last 32 after coming second in the Group!Tmol42 (talk) 23:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC) PS. I'm not obsessed with wiki guidlines but by the way the convention is to add new postings at the bottom

Squad numbers for new signings
Can we have a restriction put on this article, at least until the squad numbers are announced? People keep giving new signings squad numbers that haven't been announced yet. Bluedevil04 18:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree it's been very war like. Govvy 21:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

How about applying protection or semi-protection to the article to avoid this? Then squad numbers can be added by an administrator when they are confirmed. Steve McSherry (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2007 (GMT)


 * As can be seen in these photos all players with a confirmed squad number have it on their shirt. Those without a confirmed number (Bent & Kaboul) do not have a shirt number on their training kit yet.

Bale (#16): http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6960/1750906xo2.jpg

Berbatov (#9): http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8646/1750940cj3.jpg

Keane (#10): http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8080/1750943js9.jpg

Defoe (#18): http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9495/1750936xq4.jpg

Kaboul (no number on kit): http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1476/1750934na5.jpg

Bent (no number on kit): http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/197/1750908rn4.jpg

This suggests that Bale has officially been given the number 16 while Bent and Kaboul are still to be allocated numbers.


 * But on this page,, it states that Bale's number is still to be chosen. Also, the club has not officially announced his squad number.  So I don't think that his number should be added just yet.  What are others' opinions on this matter? Bluedevil04 17:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't see them putting the number 16 on his training kit since the beginning of pre-season if it was going to change. They haven't put any number on the training kit of Kaboul or Bent and Bent started pre-season training at the same time as Bale so it would seem that Bale will be the number 16 even if they haven't updated the website (which still shows Charlie Lee in the squad with the squad number 38 despite him being released on May 23rd so it's clearly not been updated properly in a while.


 * Strange that now Bent's 23 and Kaboul's 5 are now listed on the squad section, but Bale's 16 that was on the training pics is not.  blue devil 04  talk 04:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Loan players list.
Should it not all be on the reserves and academy article extension page? and I am pretty sure there are more loaned out players than listed here!! Govvy 08:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Vice Captain
Just something simple. Robbie Keane isn't listed a vice captain under the "Current Squad" heading. I was quite suprised. I think it should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.201.84 (talk) 14:54, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

History refs
at some point we should ref what we can for history of the club, players and such from www.tottenhamhotspur.com/index.html need to get these references in, maybe use some cite book refs also. Govvy 08:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I was looking at Manchester Utd article, I think we need to split the history into a few articles like on the Man U article. Govvy 08:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that definitely seems the way to go as. One of the first things to be removed from the main article should be the list of former notable players (though the notability of some on there is dubious to say the least), perhaps to something in line with the Manchester United one. Depending on what people think to this, I'll look to make a start this weekend should I have time. Thurls 09:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding what makes a player notable, I'd suggest we use the criteria of at least 100 games for Tottenham, and also players who have received an international cap whilst at the club. Clear air turbulence (talk) 21:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's coming to something when John Scales becomes a noted Tottenham player.Northmetpit (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Honours
Why are you listing minor pre-seasons tournaments among your trophies? It seems rather desperate. Major clubs like Arsenal don't list the Emirates Cup, Amsterdam Tournament, etc. amongst their Honours section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.36.64.254 (talk) 08:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So why not try something productive and add such tournament wins to the appropriate team pages? Many preseason tournament wins are listed in the Honors section of many EPL teams.--Sesameball 09:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Andy Polston
Does anyone have a source that gives Andy Polston's date of birth? If so, could they add it to the article? Thanks! --EH74DK 14:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Managers and head coaches list?
Should we remove the caretaker coaches from the list? I personally don't think they should be on it. Govvy 10:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, although may worth looking at what other team pages have done, and what WikiProject on Football recommends. Ralphy (talk) 10:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Also agree. I mean, Clive Allen was in charge for just one game! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.248.233 (talk) 00:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Jewish
Should we add a section on the Jewish ties to Spurs? Maybe mention racism and birth of the Yid army chant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.90.42.94 (talk) 07:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

What happened to the "Yid Army" section ? It should be reinstated. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.&oldid=164538674#.22Yid_Army.22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.92.212 (talk) 14:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course the jewish link is a vital part of the clubs history. Some of their fans have proudly flown the isreali flag at their games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.45.71 (talk) 14:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC) I'd say the article doesn't really need that section, Govvy 08:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What nonsense, of course it does (as long as we can find sources). --86.148.57.131 (talk) 01:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The article definitely does need a section on the club's ties to Jewish culture and, more precisely, the etymological history of "Yid" as it pertains to the Spurs. I can see why some people would be offended by it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be explained here. This element definitely has a major part to play in Tottenham club culture and the culture of its supporters. BostonFenian (talk) 11:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The Wikipedia page for Dutch football club Ajax FC contains a long section on the club connections with the Jewish community : you can read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Ajax#References_to_Judaism The Wikipedia page for Tottenham Hotspur should have a similar section as it used to before it was deleted which can be read here in the archive history of this page at this url : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.&oldid=164538674#.22Yid_Army.22 Maybe it need to be edited, to match the Ajax approach, can someone with the knowledge do this please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.42.175 (talk) 13:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I was brought up in Edmonton, went to school in Tottenham and supported Tottenham for 50 years. It is only in the last twenty years this Jewish connection, used as a form of racial abuse has begun. From some of the comments I used to hear it was Arsenal who had the large Jewish following. Can we have some references on this issue? Northmetpit (talk) 11:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a bit false saying Tottenham has the largest Jewish backing, when you review each Arsenal, West Ham, Chelsea, Tottenham and even Manchester United you will find each club has a backing by a number of Jewish support, if you look at the chairman for each of these clubs you will find that they are also all Jewish. So to say Tottenham has the biggest Jewish support might not be a correct statement. Govvy (talk) 19:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're looking for some sources on this issue, particularly on accusations of anti-semitism, try these from The Guardian, Spiked, Time Out, and JBooks, which also speculates that Arsenal have as many Jewish fans as Spurs. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

AFC Ajax have a section about there Jewish connections, which also talks about the Jewish connections at Tottenham, something which isn't on the Tottenham page at all. I don't see why a balanced, factual, NPOV section about the club's Jewish connections shouldn't be included, after all it is a relevant part of our history and to effectively sweep it under the carpet is hardly something that should be condoned on Wikipedia. This is meant to be a site which contains factual information it's not here to spread or silence people's religious ideas, therefore the history of Tottenham Hotspur and it's Jewish connections should be reported in a factual way. BigTurnip (talk) 23:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I re-added a section about this, as I see no reason why it was removed. Jack ?! 21:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It was removed here, I don't know why it wasn't re-added but no reason was giving for removing it. Jack ?! 22:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

For one I never liked that sub-heading "Yid Army" I have removed that in the past myself. But as for Jewish support, I think it's down to a question of what is written and peoples point of view. I don't know how much anti-semitic nature there was. But I was under the impression the Jewish support came about when Alan Sugar became chairman but I could be wrong. What I can tell you, is that because of the nature of the supporters of the club, Spurs have always been more tolerant of others because of that background. Govvy (talk) 22:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Away Support
I posted that tottenham have a poor away following in the supporters section. I cannot understand why it was deleted you visit Everton every year with about 400 odd die hard fans and unless its the 'big four' (that group you tried/trying to break) or another london club spurs fans don't travel. Look at the uefa cup last night as another case in point. If 1.4million is true then where was 0.1% of them last night, 1400, that would have least been an acceptable turn out. For a club that has a fair amount of jewish following surely Israel is the most attractive long distance destination in Europe for your team? I think at the very least if I can't express my view on your support then this 1.4million needs to be cited or backed up with evidence because it's not apparent in the stands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.28.48 (talk) 10:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

You do realise there was about 2,500 Tottenham fans at the game against Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel? I was also at that game!! Govvy 13:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I do realise this interesting fact from the tottenham official webiste, "Following today’s meeting in Israel between Club Officials and Hapoel Tel Aviv, we can confirm that we have received a ticket allocation of approximately 700 tickets.

This is in line with our expectations and will satisfy our supporters’ current demand." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.76.229 (talk) 13:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

That's the allocation of the club for supporters coming from England, arranged via Tottenham. It doesn't result the following of the fans who turn up who live in Israel, nor from other countries who came to see the game. Govvy (talk) 14:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but that doesn't support the statement of Tottenham fans living in the UK to being 1.4million does it? Neither does it support the statement that tottenham fans travel well if they already live in Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.76.216 (talk) 12:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how it is counted, there are probably more than stated if you're counting world wide. When I was in Thailand, I saw about 50 people there watching the League Cup Final in one pub alone. So to put any number down would be the wrong thing to do. Govvy (talk) 12:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Terry Neill Flag
Anyone know why Terry Neill has the Ulster banner next to his name? The Ulster banner has no official status after 1972 (see ) and he was manager in 1974. Ralphy (talk) 10:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This topic crops up frequently elsewhere and has been discussed in the article called Northern Ireland flags issue. The relevant points seem to be that the flag or more correctly the banner is still used by civil organisations including the Northern Ireland Football Team and is registered with FIFA as such. In Wikipedia it is used by nearly all other football articles refeencing NI players and managers with perhaps the best example being Martin O'Neill on the Aston Villa F.C. page. Tmol42 (talk) 18:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the explanation. Ralphy (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
There has been a lot of vandalism on this page. Please may it stop. Ashe613 (talk) 09:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Nothing too major, but if it does get fairly bad we can always stick the page on semi protect. Govvy (talk) 17:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The Angels
Going back to the 60s Glory Years.Does anyone out there remember a group of fans known as the Angels ? .They were allowed to parade around the perimeter of the White Hart Lane pitch dressed in white heavenly outfits before floodlit European games.One of them that springs to mind held a placard proclaiming BBC for sport.Did it really happen? Your memories please Northmetpit (talk) 16:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Its true. The Angels are seen celebrating the clubs FA cup win of 1962 in this clip (Northmetpit (talk) 12:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)).

Hall of fame
I'm confused:

The article says there have been 24 hall of fame inductees, the latest of which is Martin Chivers. Underneath that statement is a list of 24 players, Martin Chivers isn't one of them!either he hasn't been and it's the wrong name or the number should say 25 and his name needs adding! Which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.134.118 (talk) 13:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Good spot! There are 26 members of the HoF. Have added Willie Hall and Martin Chivers Tmol42 (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Arthur Grimsdell
I thought it was a bit sad that Arthur Grimsdell one of our 'Legends' was the only Hall of Fame entrant not to have his page so have added one. It needs some refinement and adding of one or two references etc from some excellent external links from which I drew material which I will add in, in due course Tmol42 (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Stats 2007-08
I have adjusted the season stats to include performances for Martin Jol and overall 2007-8 to date. Table format could be improved but not yet sure how to do this yet! Meantime welcome any comments happy to revert if consensus prefers previous content Tmol42 (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Peter Baker (footballer) – calling all Spurs fans
Just a 'Heads Up' about the discussion and proposal with the above heading on the following page. In brief the proposal is to change the article title for Peter Baker (footballer) this has arisen because there is a second Peter Baker (born 1934) who was for a short time an amateur for Spurs around the time the first team regular Peter Baker (born 1931) also started his career. Following the discussion on whether to change the article name this has been progressed to a polling to be found at Tmol42 (talk) 12:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Current seasons/ Recent Seasons
Would it be worth giving these their own page and linking them? Just that these two bodies of text occupy a large chunk of the history, when really they are only 2-3 years. --Blinkjim (talk) 22:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree we need to do something about them they have turned more into a blog and are as you say very long and unbalance the article. A quick look around other Premiership sides also indicates the format is not one others have adopted generally. I am not sure if having a series on individual pages describing specific seasons fits with the Football WikiProject guidelines or if its the only / optimum way forward anyway. I will go and do some checking and feedback here. In any case mid season is not the time to make a change particularly given the hyper interest in Spurs at the present. Tmol42 (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Follow up on article content and style. The typical approach is to include within one or more 'History of the Club' pages. These tend to group 5-10 year periods or more normally notable 'eras' of the club. Some good Premiership examples include History of Liverpool F.C., History of Manchester City F.C., History of Everton F.C. and from the Championship History of Ipswich Town F.C.. If one were to continue with the year by year approach then the most comprehensive approach and requiring a large amount of dedicated work by several editors I should add, is possibly History of Manchester United F.C. (1999-present).  Whatever approach there is a fair amount of work invoved. What do others who may have been regularly editing / developing new content on this page and probably for longer than I have, think? Tmol42 (talk) 10:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

2005/06 season
A reference clearly needs to be made to the fact this was such an incredibly short season consisting of just 40 games as this is undoubtedly of note (as well as a useful overall and to the point summary of the season). Maybe someone else can write it seeing as my version is unacceptable for some reason. --Shakehandsman (talk) 22:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see that as particularly noteworthy or useful overall Stephenb (Talk) 08:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As the individual who reverted these edits I was of the view they were not notable currently and historically nor in the way it was written was it even a new/ worthy insight Tmol42 (talk) 12:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Length
This article, while enjoyable to read, is just too long, especially the sections about specific seasons. --138.49.19.84 (talk) 15:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

2007/08 season - Jol's Departure
Would it be best to move this part of the 07/08 (specificly the events surronding Jol's departure) to either a new page or to the page on Martin Jol. Although Relevent, its cluttering up the page where it is --Blinkjim (talk) 16:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

pre season honours.
Do we really need to list those on the article? I am rather inclined to remove them. Govvy (talk) 10:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree, non of these are worthy of retention in this section. I would not find a one sentence reference to the club's participation at the end of the relevant season report out of place.Tmol42 (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I removed them because I didn't think they impact on the article at all. They don't look impressive either! Govvy (talk) 18:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

All Hallows Church....where?
I was thinking to wikilink this but which one? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have been dubious about this connection with All Hallows in this particular context in the earliest / inaugural period of the club's history for a while. if you read some of the local history of the Tottenham area it points to a connection between the ex Grammar school boys plus those attending the Presbyterian school known as 'Mr Cameron's' which was also known as St John's Middle Class School which was Scottish Presbyterian rather than C of E. See http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22125&strquery=St.%20John's%20Middle-Class%20Sch. There is a reference to the support provided in the early days by the Rev Wilson Vicar of Tottenham see http://www.spurshistory.com/pages/12.htm  Tmol42 (talk) 10:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)