Talk:Towers of Midnight

Constant daily updates of progress bar
There is no reason wikipedia needs daily updates not only that the progress bar on the author's website has changed, but that the progress bar has NOT changed. This is an encyclopedic article. If people want daily updates - they can go to the author's website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caidh (talk • contribs) 17:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That is correct actually, we only use the "as of" date indicated independent by sources. Rehevkor ✉  18:16, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree also. The only thing this kind of constant updating does is irritate an article's other maintainers; it's of no value to the readers. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 23:06, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Summary Problems
I dispute a few things in the summary:
 * "Isam kills Hopper in the dream, forever ending any chance the dead wolf can be reborn."

I don't remember anything in the series saying dead wolves are reborn, just that they go to the wolf dream. Maybe I missed something, but I suspect the author just assumed wolves and heroes are similar in their cycles of rebirth without having that idea backed up. 67.158.43.41 (talk) 20:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I've got counterevidence for this claim...see Towers of Midnight p. 395. I've restored the text.  Billebrooks (talk) 19:27, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * "Gateways cannot be made anywhere in the Black Tower, indicating that a dreamspike Ter'angreal is there as well."

I personally agree, but it's only implied that a dreamspike is in use. There's no direct confirmation. I find it a little remarkable that not one but two of these incredibly rare things suddenly make an appearance at the end of the series, so a small part of me hopes a more creative explanation will be used.
 * "The book ends with a prophecy from "The Prophecies of the Shadow" that predicts the demise of the world at the hands of the Lord of the Evening, and the death of Perrin."

Again, there's no direct evidence for these interpretations. The wording of the prophecy is intentionally vague, and the difficulty of interpreting prophecy is a recurring theme in the series. I think quoting a line or two of the prophecy is the best that could be hoped for, to avoid interpretation issues.

I actually subscribe to different interpretations. As for Perrin's predicted death, the book says "...the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers." I'd suggest the "Broken Wolf" doesn't necessarily mean Perrin. Noam, the guy who was once a man but who seems to have died and become basically a wolf and who Perrin was just talking to before the end of the book, is much more likely, I'd say, since he could be described both as broken and dead. Hopper might also work, if Slayer turns out to be Seanchan. Moridin is also skeptical of this interpretation in his conversation with Graendal earlier in the book. As for "the demise of the world", reading through the prophecy again, each phrase that could be taken to support this interpretation could be interpreted to refute this interpretation. That, and I strongly doubt a 14 book series of WoT's magnitude would end with the good guys losing. 67.158.43.41 (talk) 20:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * After waiting a few days for a response, I went ahead and edited the summary. I also noticed the plot summary didn't mention the cold/lifeless quality some people in the Black Tower took on, so I mentioned that as well. I tried to quote the prophecy as little as necessary for the final section while still including the most ominous bits. The last two sentences are included since they're a nice conclusion; feel free to remove them if the article is ever expanded. 67.158.43.41 (talk) 04:00, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Removed Next Book Tie-ins
I disagree with removing tie-ins for the next book from the plot summary. Separating them from the rest of the summary might be good, but when I want to read the summary, it's probably because I'm about to read the next book and it's been a while since reading Towers of Midnight.

To be clear, by tie-ins, I mean the Black Tower material, Aviendha's journey, the Waygate in Caemlyn, and Lan's plot. I may have forgotten some, which is my point. 67.158.43.41 (talk) 09:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the summary should stick to the main plot. The attacks into Caemlyn and Malkier have no detail.  The Black Tower section is a status update about the problems in the Black Tower, but nothing is done about them.  Aviendha finds information about the future, but she doesn't act on that information.  She doesn't even interact with any of the other main characters.  Contrast those with the complex interactions between Perrin, Mat, Rand, Egwene, Elayne, Gawyn, Galad, and Morgase. Billebrooks (talk) 06:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Why is the paragraph about Aviendha...
... stuck randomly in the middle of the Rand section? (It even makes the "he" in the paragraph after it somewhat puzzling.) Intentional? Cut/Paste mistake? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orbst (talk • contribs) 04:54, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I hadn't noticed that, but you're right. It shouldn't have been there.  I put it in a separate section. Caidh (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2012 (UTC)