Talk:Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic

Sejm?
Any sources why this was called Sejm, which as I understand was a Polish word? If it were Russian I could understand as it wouldn't put one of the nation state tongues above another, but Polish seems more than a little odd here without any context. JesseRafe (talk) 22:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)


 * South Caucasians wanted to break away from Russian Empire. So, Azeris, Georgians and Armenians probably wanted to use a word which wasn't Russian. But, not sure. --Ottoshmidt (talk) 09:06, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

length of the nation
according to the list of shortest-lived sovereign states List_of_shortest-lived_sovereign_states this is the shortest standing recognized nation known. could it/should it be added to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lockmelon (talk • contribs) 10:37, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thank you for bringing it up, feel free to expand on the topic in the history section if you have sources, I added only a short sentence to the lede. JesseRafe (talk) 12:56, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * There's no citation for that, so until one is found I'm going to remove it. Also calls into question what it takes to be recognized, which I'm sure is arguable on its own (that whole article is quite questionable). Kaiser matias (talk) 23:33, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Proposing rewrite of lead section
The lead section is mostly written in passive voice. That makes it harder to read. A few redundancies could be reduced and a few wordings could also be changed. Proposing the following rewrite for consideration:


 * The Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic (TDFR; 22 April — 28 May 1918) also known as the Transcaucasian Federation, was a short-lived South Caucasian state extending across the present-day countries of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia, plus parts of eastern Turkey as well as Russian border areas. The state lasted only for a month before Georgia declared independence, followed shortly by Azerbaijan and Armenia.
 * The region that formed the TDFR had been part of the Russian Empire. As the empire dissolved in 1917 February Revolution and a Provisional Government took over, a similar body, called the Special Transcaucasian Committee (Ozakom) did the same in the Caucasus. But after the October Revolution and rise of the Bolsheviks in Russia, the Transcaucasian Commissariat replaced the Ozakom. The Commissariat initiated peace talks with the Ottoman Empire in March 1918, but that broke down quickly as the Ottoman refused to accept the authority of the Commissariat. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which ended Russia's involvement in the First World War, conceded parts of the Transcaucasus to the Ottoman Empire, who continued their invasion of the region in order to take control of the territory. Faced with this imminent threat, the TDFR was proclaimed as an independent state on 22 April 1918. Further negotiations began immediately with the Ottoman, which recognized the state.
 * Diverging goals of the three major groups (Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians) jeopardized the TDFR's sustainability. With peace talks broken down again and facing a renewed Ottoman offensive in May 1918, the Georgians proclaimed their independence as the Georgian Democratic Republic on 26 May, seeking aid from the German Empire. With the Georgians no longer part of the TDFR, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis each declared themselves independent on 28 May, ending the federation.
 * Diverging goals of the three major groups (Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians) jeopardized the TDFR's sustainability. With peace talks broken down again and facing a renewed Ottoman offensive in May 1918, the Georgians proclaimed their independence as the Georgian Democratic Republic on 26 May, seeking aid from the German Empire. With the Georgians no longer part of the TDFR, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis each declared themselves independent on 28 May, ending the federation.
 * Diverging goals of the three major groups (Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians) jeopardized the TDFR's sustainability. With peace talks broken down again and facing a renewed Ottoman offensive in May 1918, the Georgians proclaimed their independence as the Georgian Democratic Republic on 26 May, seeking aid from the German Empire. With the Georgians no longer part of the TDFR, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis each declared themselves independent on 28 May, ending the federation.

Thanks. Farhan nasim (talk) 04:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. I've made the change. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:47, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Suggestions
Hi thanks for rewriting this article. I've had a cursory glance at the lede and the first part of the "Background" section. Few suggestions/remarks:
 * "The Commissariat initiated peace talks with the Ottoman Empire in March 1918, but that broke down quickly as the Ottoman refused to accept the authority of the Commissariat. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which ended Russia's involvement in the First World War, conceded parts of the Transcaucasus to the Ottoman Empire, who continued their invasion of the region in order to take control of the territory." -- Why did the Commissariat iniate peace talks with the Ottoman Empire? What was happening at the time in the region? IMO this part needs further clarification.
 * "Further negotiations began immediately with the Ottoman (...)" -- I presume "Ottoman" needs to be changed into "Ottomans".
 * "The South Caucasus had been conquered by the Russian Empire in the early nineteenth century, with the last annexations taking place in 1828" -- The Treaty of Adrianople hadn't been signed yet in 1828. Kars and Batum were taken through the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878). Do you mean the bulk of the South Caucasus? If you're referring to that, I suggest changing it to:
 * - "The bulk of the South Caucasus had been conquered by the Russian Empire in the first half of the nineteenth century through wars with Qajar Iran." OR:
 * - "Most of the South Caucasus had been conquered by the Russian Empire in the first half of the nineteenth century."

I can post more comments later if you're interested. Please don't hesitate to let me know. - LouisAragon (talk) 13:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions, it's definitely good to have someone with some familiarity of the region looking it over. I definitely welcome further comments to improve the article, and will go through what you have above when I get some time. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Is this correct?
the Armistice of Erzincan, was signed on 5 December 1917 [O.S. 18 December], shouldn't be other way around?--Jarodalien (talk) 09:45, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Also "With the fighting paused, on 3 January 1918 [O.S. 16 January]", "Two days later, on 5 January [O.S. 18 January]", "17 January [O.S. 30 January]", but before this we have "the Special Transcaucasian Committee (known by its Russian abbreviation, Ozakom[e]) on 22 March 1917 [O.S. 9 March]", "7 November 1917 [O.S. 25 October]", "and other groups on 28 November [O.S. 15 November]", is 13 days before or after?--Jarodalien (talk) 09:51, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That's correct. The issue seems to be I got confused with the template for the conversion: it notes Old Style first in the code, but the Old Style comes second in the text. I've corrected it all now though. Kaiser matias (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * "22 March 1917 [O.S. 9 March]", "25 October 1917 [O.S. 7 November]", "28 November [O.S. 15 November]", I'm still not sure which one is correct.--Jarodalien (talk) 02:30, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The October 25/November 7 date was incorrect, but fixed now. They should now be all good, but if not let me know. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, translation done.--Jarodalien (talk) 05:32, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Very neat, well done. Kaiser matias (talk) 06:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Flag
Why isn't the flag of Transcaucasia not anywhere in the article? Is it inaccurate or something? --96.22.228.193 (talk) 20:13, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * As far as I'm aware, the Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic never had a known official flag, the flag you're probably familiar with (Gold/Black/Red tricolour) has been disputed as to whether or not this is the TFDR's flag. Robertocomics (talk) 23:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Is there any description on the disputed nature of it? FOTW, which is generally reliable from what I've seen, states the tricolor as the flag, with the source listed as page 72 in the 1994 book "Tre secoli di storia attraverso le bandiere — Dall’Imperio Russo all’Unione Sovietica e alla Comunità degli Stati Indipendenti" by Aldo Ziggiotto (Rivista Marittima: Roma (Italy)). HapHaxion (talk / contribs) 14:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * from everything i've been able to look at, that seems to literally be the only source reporting that, vexillographia.ru says its bullshit and that it may be a misreporting of the georgian flag NorthTension (talk) 23:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Was Nikolay Chkheidze really the president?
I noticed that Nikolay Chkheidze's Wikipedia page never mentions that he was president and that other than the infobox, this article doesn't even mention a president, instead referring to Chkheidze as "chairman of the Seim". I can't find a good source on this, could anyone with more knowledge of the republic weigh in on this and try to find a citable source for the nature and identity of the head of state?  pluma  ♫ '''♯ 02:53, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Good catch, and you're right there never was a "president" with that title. I've modified the infobox to reflect Chkheidze's proper title. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:59, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Did these guys have a CoA?
If so please show. And no not the soviet one. Peachy1621 (talk) 00:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)