Talk:Transformers/Archive 1

Duplication
It seems that much of the information on this page is duplicated on the Transformers series page -- so much so that they appear to be almost the same article. Perhaps we should either merge the two (along with perhaps the Transformers Comic page) or differentiate more between them. For instance, the Transformers Universe page seems to be overly focused on the Television Series relative to the comic storyline.

Perhaps the Marvel Comics relative to the Marvel Comics Universe page is a more helpful guide to give a distinction?


 * User:Anon 2006 Jan 9 16:22 (UTC)

Most of the stuff here could be done elsewhere, and is of little to no use here. There is a legitimate need for a "Transformers: Universe" entry, either discussing the specific toy line (consisting of repaints of other lines) or the "Transformers: Universe" comics done by 3H. (With a probably need for disambiguation for the "Transformers Universe" (note the lack of a colon) done by Marvel comics.

But most of this should be deleted.
 * User:G.B. Blackrock 2006 Jan 25 10:30 (PST)

In what entry or entries elsewhere would you propose to file it? I agree, it's rather a mess ('Generation One' didn't end in 1992, for instance -- the toyline is still in production in Japan) and I've just added a bit of stuff about IDW as the entries only went up to Dreamwave folding.

Renaming this entry something along the lines of 'Transformers mythos' would avoid conflict with the Transformers Universe profile series published in the 80s, plus the modern Universe comics and toyline. It might also more accurately reflect the tangle of timelines and continuities in fiction produced under the Transformers brand.

Denyer 05:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, although the G1 toyline is indeed being produced in Japan today, these are reissues. To say that the line ended in 1992 is more or less accurate, give or take a year or two depending on what criteria you use. But no one suggests the G1 line of today (some call them "neo-G1) has been in continuous production since their introduction. They've been brought back.

As to the question of where most of this article should go, it's enough of a mess that parts would go in different places. The most of it is already repeated (largely) in the "Transformers (toys)" article. The fact that this article attempts to talk about the "continuities" while that article is supposed to be about the toys, per se, doesn't change this article's redundancy. Other parts would go well in the "comics" TF article.

Or, we could go with the original discussion and just merge this with the "Transformers series" article.
 * User:G.B. Blackrock 2006 Feb 8 11:15 (PST)

Agreed, it's a revival, but the tendency to date chronologically -- in addition to being rather inaccurate -- also seems to be responsible for a lot of squabbling amongst Transformers fans. Attitudes such as the past being a closed book, etc. when original series material and characters have been under a lot of development recently with new product from Takara, plus several years of comics from Dreamwave and IDW. The series names are, after all, trademarks and brand labels -- to a large extent the parent company directs use and that's a more neutral way of framing things than fan politics. Even if it leads to mention of things such as Animorphs. Heh.

What's the procedure for a merge? You seem to know what you're doing, whereas I've only just about gotten to grips with wiki syntax.

Denyer 18:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is there more information on the Transformers universe than there is on Isaac Newton? This is a very interesting encyclopedia. -VOMGivesUp

I agree that it should be merged. 70.111.251.203 23:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The Transformers universe is so huge due to the amounts of writers making alternate timelines etc. Maybe we should have our own portal.


 * I'm surprised no one has started a transformers wikiproject!--D-Boy 08:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

IDW Timeline
A safe place for this: the IDW timeline moves like this


 * 6.2 million "meta-Cycles" ago - The first Ark was launched from Cybertron and mysteriously lost.


 * 600,000 "meta-cycles" ago - Shockwave discovers Cybertron is dying and begins his "Regenesis" plan, seeding planets including Earth with the makings of Energon.


 * End of the Ice Age ~12,000 years ago - Shockwave Spotlight. He comes to Earth to stabalize his new energon brew, is jumped by the Dinobots and all are burried there. Megatron assigns Bludgeon to look into his files.


 * Unknown - Thunderwing discovers Cybertron is dying and invents Pretender process, goes bonkers, destroys the world. (This must happen after the above, since Megatron and Bludgeon are still stationed on Cybertron when their above exchange occurs).


 * 700 "stellar-cycles" ago - Cybertron became completely energy-dead After Thunderwing's rampage.


 * Unknown - Bludgeon discovers Ultra Energon in Shockwave's notes, digs up Thunderwing's courpse and gets busy with it.


 * Unknown - Starscream's unit arrives on Earth, eventually discovers Shockwave's ultra-energon/Ore 13 and goes rogue.


 * 2 "megacycles" ago - Prowl and co. arrive on Earth. (Ratchet says this like it's a long time, "years" maybe, but then in #6 the Decepticons use "mega-cycle" with a hyphen to mean a MUCH shorter length of time, like an "hour." So *shrug*.)


 * 2006 AD - Infiltration 1-2


 * Infiltration 3/ Stormbringer 1 - In #3 Ironhide sends Prime a message he recieves in Stormbringer #1 -


 * Stormbringer 2/Infiltration 4


 * Stormbringer 3/end of Infl. #4 begining of #5 - occur simultaniously as we see both sides of Megs conversation between the two.


 * Infiltration 5/ Stormbringer 4 - After Thunderwing's defeat Jetfire connects Bludgeon's work with files about Earth and So Prime decides to follow up there and sets course for Earth.


 * Nightbeat Spotlight - Prime contacts Nightbeat on his way to Earth to join him there.


 * Inflitration 6 - Prime arrives on Earth.


 * Escalation

Wiki-newbie 16:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Spin-offs
This topic is kind of a complicated one. In truth, "G.I. Joe vs. The Transformers" and "Evolutions" (and quite probably the live-action film, but we'll know better when it's actually OUT) should all fall under the Generation 1 heading - they're just alternate takes on the G1 setting and characters, in the same manner as the Sunbow cartoon, Marvel, Dreamwave and IDW comics are all alternate to each other. They belong to the same "continuity family," to borrow a term from the Transformers wiki. - 217.42.30.167 19:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No they're not. Otherwise everything would fall under "G1", given it's all Transformers. The film is just as based on G1 as Armada is. Wiki-newbie 16:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, maybe not the movie, but... Evolutions and G.I. Joe are absolutely variants of the G1 universe. They're just alternate versions of the G1 characters in new settings - not entirely different characters who happen to have the same names. You just have to look at the series, and the way the characters represented, both visually and in terms of personality. - Chris McFeely 22:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Move suggestion
For some reason back in the earlier days of Wikipedia, people saw fit to write an article on the comics, the cartoons, the toys, and the films, as well as an oddity on continuity. However, no one wrote an article about Transformers' place in the world. I suggest moving this page to Transformers (Hasbro) so this article can juggle a lot more on being about the whole franchise with the older pages serving as daughter articles. Ultimately we can make a single article all the more comprehensive and become FA.
 * Support as nominator. WikiNew 19:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion of video games?
Would it be a good idea to discuss fictional universes of video games? Alientraveller 11:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Broken grammar
"The Transformers began with the 1970s Japanese toy lines Microman and Diaclone. The former utilized varying humanoid-type figures while the middle presented robots able to transform into vehicular modes, with the latter robots mimicking everyday electronic items or replica weapons." doesn't scan right. How can you have the "former", "middle", and "latter" when talking about two things? --Randal L. Schwartz 04:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Speaking of: While the original Microman line started in 1973, the successor New Microman and its sub-line MicroChange, as well as the spin-off Diaclone, both started in the early 1980s. People often get confused by the "1973" copyright stampt on toys line Megatron, but that's due to some weird differences in Japanee copyright law. The date merely signifies when the original line started. The pre-TF version of Megatron didn't come out until 1982.--87.164.81.148 11:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

From the Intro: "The primary concept of G1 is that the heroic Optimus Prime, the villainous Megatron, and their finest soldiers crash land on pre-historic Earth in the Ark and the Nemesis before awakening in 1985, Cybertron hurtling through the Neutral zone as an effect of the war."

The last part of the sentence about Cybertron seems to make a comma splice.

Redundant Links
Seibertron.com and TFArchive.com do not offer unique content and are redundant with TFormers.com being more all-inclusive than the two former sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.77.187 (talk) 14:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Seibertron is the only website recognized by USA Today, and TFW2005 is on the film's DVD. Alientraveller (talk) 18:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank Primus this was moved from Transformers universes to Transformers (fiction). The previous name was in-universe, this is out-of-universe. I was fearing there were overlapping articles with partly duplicated content, but I am relieved it is not so. This has to be kept separate from Transformers (toyline) though, because even from an out-of-universe perspective, the physical toys and the fiction providing a backstory to them are separate, which can be easily proven by the G1 backstory having outlived the original toyline by over a decade. J I P | Talk 21:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Megalitho 20thanniv.jpg
Image:Megalitho 20thanniv.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs a better picture
The picture is so small and busy that it looks more like a Jackson Pollock than a representation of characters.--Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 16:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Huh?
"...The Transformers began with the 1970s Japanese toy lines Microman and Diaclone. The former utilized varying humanoid-type figures while the middle presented robots able to transform into vehicular modes, with the latter robots mimicking..."

Two toy lines, yet three separate phases. Something's missing here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.72.45 (talk) 18:35, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, Diaclone didn't exist until the 1980s, and neither did the Microman spin-off New Microman: MicroChange. This is a common misconception based on Japanese copyright dates on the toys which reflect when the toyline as a whole was launched, not when the specific toy was developed.--87.164.108.79 (talk) 20:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

CYBERTRON
Unicron wasn't the only transformer god.In the cybertron series,crybertron wasn,t just a planet,he was a warrior of massive size and seemed like a walking warship.He and unicron had been in mortal combat for more than a 1,000 years.It was said that the god would awaken if the omega lock(which is just a giant key.)was inserted into his body which would awake him from a long sleep and the he would save the univerese from a black hole bigger than a galaxy. --74.225.65.107 (talk) 01:16, 22 April 2009 (UTC)By Flavio Osco 4/21/09
 * Yes, we note who Primus is. Alientraveller (talk) 08:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Can someone clarify this paragraph under Beast Wars / Beast Machines?
Not sure what this is suppose to mean: Although the organic origin of Cybertron, the presence of female characters and Starscream's appearance hinting at his demise in The Transformers: The Movie brought the series closer to the G1 TV series, the appearance of Ravage's intelligent Marvel incarnation[44] and the comics only terms the Ark left the show in a gray area of "a" Generation 1. Strongsauce (talk) 22:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * There were two conflicting "Generation 1" continuities in the 1980s (well, actually more, but these are the main ones): The Sunbow cartoon and the Marvel comic.
 * The cartoon had Cybertron with an organic core (episode "Desertion of the Dinobots"), female Transformers (Arcee, Elita-1, Chromia, Moonracer, Firestar, as seen in "The Search for Alpha Trion") and Starscream being killed off by Megatron ("The Transformers: The Movie").
 * The Marvel comic, meanwhile, featured an intelligent Ravage who could talk (whereas in the carton, he acted like a barely sentient animal) and identified the Autobots' Spaceship as "The Ark" and the mountain it had crashed into as "Mount St. Hillary". In the cartoon, neither was ever identified by name.
 * The comic and cartoon continuities aren't reconcilable. This paragraph suggests that the Beast Wars cartoon was set in a continuity that uses elements of both the original Sunbow G1 cartoon and the Marvel comic.--87.164.98.31 (talk) 10:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that! I was pretty sure the sentence was trying to say something like that but just poorly structured. I'll modify the article to make that sentence more coherent. Strongsauce (talk) 18:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

About TF Animated
It was produced by Cartoon Network, not Nickelodeon! Will someone please change it to the correct one?65.173.90.94 (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 03:42, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Transformers → Transformers (franchise) — A Transformers is a transformer. 75.142.152.104 (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose Yes, a Transformer is a Transformer.  But Transformers is Transformers.  There are hatnotes in place for those confused, so what's the problem?  Skinsmoke (talk) 21:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I believe that, if someone were to search for or link to the the term "transformers" with an "s" at the end, it is more likely they'd be referring to the franchise than to the electrical devices. Transformers is fine where it is, and so is Transformer; and as Skinsmoke pointed out, we already have the notes at the top of the page to deal with any confusion.  -- Joren (talk) 21:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose Parentheses should be avoided unless strictly necessary, which is not the case here, as there are no other transformers to disambiguate from. Further, I think there are many people that consider "Transformers" to be an invariable noun, as in "one Transformers, several Transformers". I have no opinion on that. walk victor falktalk 01:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External Sites
I was trying to figure out what the process is for getting external sites recognized and referenced by wiki. I notice that all of the 'fan sites' for Transformers are listed on this page (Seiberton, TFW2005, etc etc) I can't suggest the following site because I volunteer as an administrator there (www.behindthevoiceactors.com) But, I do believe the site at some point does deserve some references on wiki. It provides information that NONE of the fan sites do and it provides items (sound clips and photos) that wiki cannot provide. I thought I read somewhere that a site offering things like that which wiki doesnt that it can warrant a reference of the site. Any help I could get in this area would be greatly appreciated. I am NOT trying to spam the site or use wiki as an advertising mechanism. I just feel that certain pages on our site would be more helpful to wiki users than fansites that seem to be overly redundant with what they offer.

Thanks again

Optimussolo (talk) 21:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

This franchise needs a merge spree (EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE)
There is a plenty (dozens?) of completely, absolutely worthless Transformers bio articles like Sixknight (SINCE 2006). That's while the pretty good video game articles like this are being merged mercillessly by the vidyagame crew. WTF? GTFO.

That's the first step. The next one - over 90% of the current number of SEVERAL HUNDRED Transformers articles, I guess. Only those with enough notability should be allowed to stay - maybe a dozen or two, but actually I have no idea (never seeing the movies I know only 1, the red truck guy whose name I forgot now). The rest should go to the List of Transformers article and then to Transformers wikia(s). Like what happened to the Pokemans already, leaving only this many... I mean, like 5 years ago. --Asperchu (talk) 17:17, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, maybe I was too harsh. But this Sixknight bullshit seriously pissed me off. A recolor. On Wikipedia for 4 years. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Oh, and the same goes for the almost equally huge pile of the GI Joe crap, btw. See, I actually like GI Joe, but come on. --Asperchu (talk) 17:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Two major articles about Transformers
There are currently two major articles about Transformers: this one (started in 2004) and Transformers (toy line) (started in 2003). Both are over 40 kilobytes long. While the former concentrates more on the fiction, and the latter on the toys, there is a significant amount of overlap between the contents of the articles. A possible merge or partial merge should be investigated. J I P &#124; Talk 10:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Reverted recent edits
I have reverted the recent edits by User:Info Transformers2011 for obvious reasons: complete lack of sources. J I P &#124; Talk 20:11, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Incomplete(?) sentence in intro
The intro paragraph currently contains the sentence: "There have been other incarnations of the story based on different toy lines during after 20th-Century."

This sentence doesn't make sense, but I don't know what it's trying to say so can't fix it myself. Thryduulf (talk) 15:43, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Prime/War for Cybertron Continuity?
I have been reading several articles that say that the above series have the same continuity. I believe that this is a fan-made rumor that has gone out of control being recorded as fact. Leaving "it has been said..." doesn't mean it is a truth, and there are no sources to support it. Unless I can get a reliable source that agrees with this so-called continuity, I say all articles must separate the two series as different continuities. --71.204.250.225 (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2011 (UTC)


 * In Hasbro's own words: "The TRANSFORMERS brand team would like to confirm that Transformers War for Cybertron video game, Transformers Exodus novel, and the Transformers Prime television show are in the same aligned continuity. Hasbro is creating a single continuity to tell the bulk of our TRANSFORMERS stories going forward." Here's the link to the announcement --Khajidha (talk) 21:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

"Race for the cube"
From the start of the Generation 1 section:
 * Generation One (G1) is a race for the cube between Megatron and Optimus Prime, retroactive terms for the Transformers characters that appeared between 1984 and 1992.

What the heck? What race for which cube? And since when have Megatron and Optimus Prime been retroactive terms? J I P &#124; Talk 15:31, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, ignore this. It was vandalism. I have removed it. J I P  &#124; Talk 15:42, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Optimus Prime and Gundam
This may not have anything to do with any things that should be edited, but one thing I've noticed was that Optimus Prime of this series takes a heavily similar resemblance to the RX-78-2 Gundam from the 1979 Japanese anime series Mobile Suit Gundam. I'd like to ask anyone if Transformers is supposed to be a knockoff to the Gundam series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.27.233.5 (talk) 00:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing any resemblance. --Khajidha (talk) 20:15, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Interwiki links everywhere! STOP THE MADDNESS!
C'mon guys, you have got to be kidding me. I'm seeing the following interwiki links:
 * Film
 * Comic_Book
 * Japan
 * United_Kingdom
 * Robot
 * Asteroid
 * (etc)

The page is nearly as much blue as it is black. Let's maybe ease up a bit on this. We can assume that the user knows a little about the English language. I was half expecting to find a The sooner or later.Tgm1024 (talk) 01:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

In consideration of WP:OVERLINK, I'll go and remove those obvious ones now.Tgm1024 (talk) 20:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I removed the obvious offenders, but there are SOOOOO many repeats as well which are also covered under WP:OVERLINK. Please people, in general the suggestion is to link the first occurrence. Reading pages that overdo it like this is not easy.Tgm1024 (talk) 20:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)