Talk:Trial as an adult

Countries executing under-18s
"Since 1990, only nine countries have executed offenders aged under 18 years at the time of their crime." But the table used as a source for this only lists seven countries.

Also, why not list all of them?

--Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Strange that the table only lists seven, I remember seeing United States and one other country mentioned. I didn't want to take it too far off-topic into territory that would be more suited to Capital punishment, instead offering a summary. Perhaps a 'See Also' link to Capital Punishment in Juveniles as a compromise? Cheers, &mdash; Deontalk 10:17, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. Either way, I think if we list one or some of the countries doing so, we should list all of them. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Done and done! &mdash; Deontalk 10:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry. I didn't see this discussion until after I changed the list to *nine* countries.  The original cite was old (Sudan added itself to the list recently), and *excludes* the United States (which has its own page somewhere).  I've also changed the cite to the more recent Amnesty International page, which lists all nine countries, as well as all of the individuals executed.  Rwessel (talk) 05:16, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

RFC: Lede
The lede contains the uncited statement "Sanctions handed down are often harsher, as juvenile justice systems may focus on rehabilitating young offenders, where sentencing in adult offenders may be more focused on punishment and removing the incentive to re-offend". As far as I know, rehabilitation is removing the incentive to reoffend, and as far as I can tell, the editor who wrote this is confusing punishment with retribution. Should the statement remain in the article? 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Leave as-is - I think it makes sense. But if you are confused by it, maybe it can be improved somehow.  Speaking from a US perspective, the lead is accurate: when juveniles are tried as juveniles, the sentences are very light, the sentences never extending beyond the age of 18, the incarceration, if any, is at juvenile facilities, and the conviction is typically erased when the child reaches 18.  When the same person is tried as an adult, the sentences can extend beyond the age of 18, the sentences are potentially very severe (since trial as an adult is typically for crimes such as murder), the incarceration (after age 18) is in prison, and the conviction is not erased at age 18.  I think the lead sentence is accurate.  Can you propose a new wording that is less confusing for you, but still captures the very large difference in potential punishments? --Noleander (talk) 00:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Firstly, the wording isn't confusing to me. Secondly, the lede can't just relect a US perspective. Thirdly, even if reflecting only a US perspective was appropriate, "Sanctions handed down are often harsher" covers your entire point about the difference in punishment. 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Neutral The sentence is not referenced, so it can be removed.  But the way I see rehabilitation is that it is a form of psychological counselling.  Note depending on the sentence (the judge delivers or some other body such as a jury), adults may be sentenced to rehabilitation as well.  The sentence could be judged WP:SYN.  Of course a jail/prison/incarceration sentence may be to punish, and punishment is a positive punishment so this would be an incentive to not re-offend.Curb Chain (talk) 04:21, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * also see incentiveCurb Chain (talk) 04:30, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * "Rehabilitation" in this context refers to Rehabilitation (penology), not to a form of counselling. 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Current version acceptable? 89.100.150.198 (talk) 18:21, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Leave Based on Noleander argument. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:18, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

article expansion
I've expanded the previous article by adding additional headlines (e.g. controversy, juveniles' competency to stand trial in adult court, public opinion, etc). During this process I've reorganized the article and added about 30 references. I plan to continue to work on this article for the next couple of months. Mnortonb (talk) 22:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

great work
Wonderful additions! This is a very well-written and informative article. Acal26 (talk) 21:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Globalize
Trial as an adult is not uniquely American. You've touched on the UK, but several other countries have a similar process. At the very least this needs to balance the UK and US bits Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I've added a little info on trial as an adult for other countries, and will try to add more as I can. It should be noted that most countries do not practice transferring children to criminal court, and the US is one of the primary countries that does this, which is why there much more of a focus on the US.  A few countries that might practice this are Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, etc. and it is difficult to get the all the facts/data about their justice system practices.  I will continue to work on globalizing the article though. Mnortonb (talk) 18:38, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

United States
'After a dramatic increase in violent juvenile offenses in the 1990s,[3] a greater number of juveniles were transferred from juvenile court to criminal court for their crimes'. The reference cited, http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/sp/juvenile.pdf, does not back the claim about 'a dramatic increase in juvenile offences', but in fact claims the opposite: 'Trends in juvenile crime provide no evidence that young people have become more crime prone or dangerous than in past years. The juvenile proportion of all arrests for serious violent crime in 1998 was about average for the preceding twenty-five years, while the percentage of property-crime arrests involving juveniles has actually declined throughout most of this period.' The article goes on to describe an increase in one category, murder - particularly with guns. This increase peaked in the early nineties and has since subsided, and appears to have been related to drug warfare and the recruitment of juveniles into drug gangs, as the article explains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.85.207 (talk) 23:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Wrong Information in the section 'germany'
A criminal between 14 and 18 (meaning when he or she is 14,15,16 or 17) will not be tried as an adult. Source : http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/jgg/__1.html (the law). If someone is 18 or older (but not 21 yet) he can be tried as an adult. (Heranwachsender https://www.dict.cc/?s=Heranwachsender can't find any translation, after all it is a legal term you probably wouldn't use in day-to-day German).

Google translation of the law:

(1) This Act applies when an adolescent or an adolescent commits an offense which is punishable under the general provisions of punishment. (2) young people is, who at the time indeed fourteen but not yet eighteen, an adolescent who is not yet the time of the fact eighteen, but twenty-one.

The only way a 'young people' (14-17 at the time of the crime) will be punished by adult law, is when he or she is punished by adult law together with an older crime when he or she was a minor (you get one punishment for several crimes 'Gesamtstrafe', it is way less than the sum of the punishments.)

See also: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugendstrafrecht_(Deutschland)#Alters-_und_Reifestufen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heranwachsender

As you can easily see, my English is not good enough to edit the article.

--Det&#38;cor (talk) 07:13, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Adult Development Spring 2022
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