Talk:Tug McGraw

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

Needs references, but otherwise a B.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 13:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
There needs to be a section talking about Tug being the father of country music star, Tim McGraw.
 * It's already mentioned throughout the article. Besides, all Tim McGraw really did was perform the song "Live Like You Were Dying", probably chose to use it because it sounded like it could fit his father's case. It was written my Craig Wiseman & Tim Nichols, so Tim McGraw did not write the song about his father, or even write the song.  Zchris87v  16:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I plan on adding a portion on his military training during the Vietnam war. I hope that everyone thinks that will be a positive addition! 592LaurenBo 23:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)592LaurenBo

Hi- not sure how to go about this but I believe the line about getting his nickname in barber college is bogus. It's been reported over and over -and I believe I heard it from Tug himself- that it came in infancy while breastfeeding: (see: http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Tug_McGraw_1944)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.147.223.199 (talk) 03:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I removed the 'only' from 'Phillies only World Series' since right now at this very moment they are battling the Tampa Bay Rays for the 2008 World Series Champion title. I hope this is acceptable. At first I added info about the 2008 World Series but then remembered the article was specifically about Tug McGraw, so the only changes I left was the removal of the word 'only' since the Phillies are now again in the World Series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davesilvan (talk • contribs) 02:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I corrected the passage that stated that McGraw spent the 1967 and 1968 seasons in the minors with the Tidewater Tides. The Jacksonville Suns were the Mets' AAA farm club through the 1968 season, and Tidewater didn't become AAA until 1969. I only caught this because my father used to take me to Suns games, and I saw McGraw (along with Gary Gentry, Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan) pitch at AAA. orca99usa, 14:45, 18 June 2010

No mention as to if he ever got married in is life or if he had more that one child. Seems odd, by omission implies never got married - no other children Wfoj3 (talk) 20:06, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

The section that discusses Tim McGraw mentions that he didn't acknowledge Tim until Tim was 17, but they later became close. However, Tim McGraw on NPR's Fresh Air on 4/19/21 discussed going to see his dad at a baseball game while young, being ignored, and mentioned it was the last time he saw him. The article doesn't cite any sources, perhaps it should or it should be changed to reflect Tim's recollection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrrybock (talk • contribs) 12:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Mets colors vs. Phillies colors
While I became a Tug McGraw fan during the 1973 "Ya Gotta Believe" season, I think the defining moments of his career happened with the Phillies during the 1980 NLCS and World Series. Therefore I vote for Phillies' colors. user: hanksummers 7 December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanksummers (talk • contribs) 22:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

McGraw played more seasons and more games with the Phillies than with the Mets. He got his only Cy Young Award votes while a Phillie. It seems to me his colors should be Phillie colors. Kingturtle (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, he spent the same number of years with each team. Second, he is most well-known for coining "Ya Gotta Believe," which is essentially the official rallying cry of the Mets franchise. He is also a World Series hero (for a much more famous World Series team in the '69 Mets) with New York and despite getting Cy votes in 1980, his prime years (1969-73) were recorded in a Mets uniform. He should be shown with Mets colors. 68.173.209.19 (talk) 03:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * To be accurate, McGraw spent 1965 to 1967 and 1969 to 1974 with the Mets (9 seasons) and 1975 to 1984 with the Phillies (10 years). Kingturtle (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, McGraw was Top Ten in Saves 3 times with the Mets and 4 times with the Phillies, Top Ten in Games Finished 3 times with the Mets and 5 times with the Phillies.


 * His top 2 save seasons (27 and 25) both occurred with the Mets in 1972-73. And his last 3 years with the Phillies were basically as a washed-up, little-used reliever from 1982-84.Jjj222 (talk) 16:28, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless you live in Philly, the rest of the world associates Tug with the Mets. (talk) 16:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)Pascack (talk) 03:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't live in Philly. Kingturtle (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * McGraw pitched more innings with the Mets (793 to 722) and posted career-highs in wins, innings pitched, saves, and strikeouts with the Mets. He also went to 2 World Series with the Mets (one of which was one of the most famous teams ever, and the other of which he remains the #1 most representative figure) verus 1 with Philly.  If you had to pick his 4 best seasons (1969, 1971, 1972, 1980), 3 of them occurred in New York. Jjj222

He should definitely be in Mets colors, he is one of the top 5-6 most important figures in Mets history. Jjj222 (talk) 16:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * He is a World Series hero to both franchises, but if you had to pick one, I'd say it has to be the Mets colors. 1980 aside, all his other best seasons were in New York, and you can't discount "Ya Gotta Believe," which he coined and which remains as the team's eternal slogan. He grew up in the Mets farm system and appeared in 2 World Series for the team.  And as someone mentioned earlier, he spent the last 3 seasons of his career as a little-used member of the Phillies bullpen anyway. Gmh224 19:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmh224 (talk • contribs)

I only ever hear of him discussed as a Met and so I believe that most people consider him to be a Met before a Philly. The fact that Mets fans still say "ya gotta believe" and Tug didn't leave the Phillies with anything of such great impact has helped to solidify his status as a Met over a Philly. Sure he did a lot for both teams, but that all seems to be about equal amongst the two so I'm going with Mets because he seems to be a lot more important in New York Mets culture than he is in Philadelphia Phillies culture. OlympianX —Preceding comment was added at 01:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

This page had Mets colors ever since its inception, it is not the place of Googie Man or anyone else to come in and make the single decision of what this should be. The colors should stay Mets or blank until a consensus is reached. Gmh224 18:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmh224 (talk • contribs) I think he should have Mets colors--Yankees10 (talk) 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Then he should have a picture as a Phillie. Googie man (talk) 02:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS Jjj222, Gmh224, and banned IP address 68.173.209.19, are all the same person, so this whole discussion is a fucking farce, especially when I think what this site used to be back in 2002 and 03.

Googie man (talk) 02:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Banned IP address 68.173.209.19, Jjj22, Gmh224, JoeIdaho, and Pascack
....First off, uhhhhhh, I KNOW those are the Phillies colors, that's the point! Second, just Google Tug McGraw and see how many searches, pictures, etcetera, come up of him in a Phillies uniform. Like I said, if we're going to have this silly convention of infobox colors, at least make them neutral. But the REAL point is, that you're in your element again. I see that you make ZERO edits on Mets who are unequivocal, such as Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden. You find EVERY LAST borderline case, then instigate trouble. You are *one sick fuck*. Googie man (talk) 18:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The only reason you find more photos of him as a Philly is because that part of his career was more recent and camera technology was better (resulting in a great deal more photos available on the internet.) OlympianX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.43.127 (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And perhaps because Tug McGraw threw the last pitch in the 1980 World Series? Some World Series, people more or less forgetten about, like the 1983 WS, or the 1990 WS.  The 1980 was pretty well known at the time.  It was an exciting series, and made national stars out of Mike Schmidt, and Tug McGraw. Yes, McGraw's peak as a pitcher was as a Met, I'm not disputing that.  However, the total disavowal of his time on the Phillies on the infobox shows bias.  Googie man (talk) 03:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * PS You said yourself you live in a city of 18 million people. Jesus Christ, go to a restaurant, see a show, feed pigeons in Central Park. The last thing *I'd* being doing if I lived in the best city in the world is fucking around on Wikipedia.  Googie man (talk) 18:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I just thought I'd say I am going to bring this to mets=y to have neutral colors on retired players infoboxes like the Retired football players have--Yankees10 (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Brilliant edit, for which I give my unqualified support. Googie man (talk) 18:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I think he's more known as a Met. Rbc224 (talk) 23:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Any relation to John?
Is Tug McGraw any relation to old-time baseball great John McGraw? There should probably be a mention in the article of whether he is or isn't, as that's probably a common question for anyone who's heard of both. -- CWesling (talk) 22:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Frank Edwin McGraw was born in Martinez, California, on August 30, 1944, the second of three sons of Frank and Mabel McGraw (a fourth child died shortly after birth). He was never called by his given name.Kaymen369 (talk) 03:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[User:kaymen369] 22:08, 10 June 2016

This doesn't actually answer the question since there would be a generation gap between John (1873-1934) and Tug (1944-2004). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TFuesh (talk • contribs) 14:05, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

picture
How about a new picture without the belly? --Npnunda (talk) 23:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed it back to the hall Of Fame Plaque. --Npnunda (talk) 23:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Hall of Fame plaque is not a good one because it overemphasizes his time with the Phillies at the expense of his career with the Mets, which is just as well known (if not more so) than his time in Philly. The point of getting rid of the infobox colors was to eliminate the association of players with one team over the other, especially in close calls such as with Tug.  Keep the belly picture or something else more neutral.Rbc224 (talk) 04:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

leaving behind
Tug left up coming superstar and son Tim be hind.tim never new his father that well. At the age of 11 Tim found his birth certificate by accident. At the age of 18 his mom took him to meet his father.tug later engaged him as his son. After tugs death in 2004 tim wrote the hit song live like you were dying. the lyrics match up really well. after reading the bio. of tug look at these lyrics.

He said I was in my early forties with a lot of life before me when a moment came that stopped me on a dime and I spent most of the next days looking at the x-rays Talking bout the options and talking bout sweet time I asked him when it sank in that this might really be the real end how�s it hit you when you get that kinda news man what�d you do

and he said I went sky diving I went Rocky Mountain climbing I went 2.7 seconds on a bull named fumanchu and I loved deeper and I spoke sweeter and I gave forgiveness I�d been denying and he said someday I hope you get the chance to live like you were dying.

He said I was finally the husband that most the time I wasn�t and I became a friend a friend would like to have and all the sudden going fishin wasn�t such an imposition and I went three times that year I lost my dad well I finally read the good book and I took a good long hard look at what I�d do if I could do it all again

and then I went sky diving I went Rocky Mountain climbing I went 2.7 seconds on a bull named fumanchu and I loved deeper and I spoke sweeter and I gave forgiveness I�d been denying and he said someday I hope you get the chance to live like you were dying.

Like tomorrow was a gift and you got eternity to think about what�d you do with it what did you do with it what did I do with it what would I do with it?

Sky diving I went Rocky Mountain climbing I went 2.7 seconds on a bull named fumanchu and then I loved deeper and I spoke sweeter and I watched an eagle as it was flying and he said someday I hope you get the chance to live like you were dying. To live like you were dying To live like you were dying To live like you were dying To live like you were dying —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.21.186.213 (talk) 00:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life
On behalf of the Tug McGraw Foundation, there seems to be a consistent entry from an individual claiming that Tug fathered twins under his personal life. This is simply untrue. False statments will be reported to wikipedia if this entry continues. The Tug McGraw Foundation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.122.254.209 (talk) 17:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

USMC
I've searched the internet, and found no source at all that McGraw was ever a marine. I will continue to look, but if I don't find anything, I'm removing it.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 16:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Tug McGraw certainly was in the USMC... I have his old uniforms, duty boots, and pictures from his USMC days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.215.78.2 (talk) 18:45, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Career Stats
Can someone get these sourced and cited?? Eric Statzer (talk) 07:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Other work
I moved this paragraph by 69.114.172.154 from the article:

In late September/ early October 1981 Tug McGraw was participating in a promotional advertisement. The promotion was to benefit the neo-natal center located at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. At the time my daughter was a patient in the neo-natal center and was filmed with Tug for that promotion.

 Mini  apolis  01:53, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Foundation
Can someone rewrite this section? It looks like it was copied/pasted directly from the web site, and therefore looks and sounds promotional in nature. 64.134.242.147 (talk) 15:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Tug McGraw. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130616032243/http://www.bigleaguesmag.com/new-york-mets-a-rallying-cry-is-born/ to http://www.bigleaguesmag.com/new-york-mets-a-rallying-cry-is-born/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110613151437/http://www.tugmcgraw.com/news/gala2007_awards.asp to http://www.tugmcgraw.com/news/gala2007_awards.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081202212145/http://sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Tug_McGraw to http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Tug_McGraw

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:28, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Jacksonville Suns.
Someone needs to change this. Back in those days they were the Jacksonville Expos. 2600:1700:60F0:2360:397B:BB37:950C:6837 (talk) 12:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The sources describe the late 1960s / early 1970s team as the Suns, even when they briefly had an affiliation with the Expos in 1970. They weren't the Jacksonville Expos until the mid-1980s as far as I can tell. Larry Hockett (Talk) 13:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)