Talk:Tympanuchus

Proposed merge
I propose to merge Prairie Chicken here because all of the kinds of Prairie Chicken are within this genus, and a reader may wish to refer to the general concept rather than a particular species. bd2412 T 01:13, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the link here from Prairie Chicken (a dab page) is good enough. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 05:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem with that link is that the dab page is WP:DABCONCEPT, if it possible to explain the relationship between the different kinds of things called "Prairie Chicken". Put another way, there may be instances where a reference indicates that, for example, some early settlers survived by eating Prairie Chicken. Of course, we can't know which kind that source would intend, so a link to the disambiguation page would be impermissibly unfixable. Of course, we could turn Prairie Chicken into an article of its own, but it seems to me that it would be redundant to this one. bd2412  T 11:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Merged. It should be renamed to prairie chicken. We don't have separate articles for Spheniscidae and penguin either, just to mention one example of hundreds. Prairie chicken is the common name for the taxon.FunkMonk (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Well done. Cheers! bd2412  T 01:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Does "prairie chicken" normally include the Sharp-tailed Grouse? I haven't run into that. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 13:40, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would that be a requirement? The Little White Tern is a noddy, but unlike other noddies, the word doesn't appear in its name. FunkMonk (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Whether it's in the name or not, I think the criterion is whether people include the species when they use the proposed article title. Do people say "the three prairie chickens" or "the only species of prairie chicken left in Canada" or "two of the prairie chickens have rounded tails and one has a pointed tail"?  If so, I'd be in favor of the merge.  As I said, I haven't run into it.


 * Helpful phrases don't seem to be common enough to show up at Google ngrams. Here are some Google results, for what they're worth:
 * Both prairie chicken species: 16
 * Two prairie chicken species: 9
 * Three prairie chicken species: 1


 * Both prairie chickens: 56 (some of them being on "both prairie chickens and sharp-tailed grouse")
 * All three prairie chickens: 0


 * Some quotations:
 * "A chicken-like bird of open prairies and parklands, the Sharp-tailed Grouse uses a wider variety of habitats than its close relatives the prairie-chickens." All About Birds
 * "Sharp-tailed Grouse generally distinguished from these species by bold V-shaped marks on underparts, which appear scaled and spotted (prairie-chickens are marked with heavy transverse barring on underparts), by elongated central rectrices (tail is short and rounded in prairie-chickens), and by color of air sacs on neck in males (violet versus orange or yellow in prairie-chickens)." Birds of North America Online
 * "Sharp-tailed is closely related to prairie-chickens..." The Sibley Guide to Birds


 * So although some people do use "prairie chicken" to include Sharp-tailed Grouse, I think it's quite unusual, and based on the principle of least astonishment and the idea that we should names with their familiar meanings as much as possible, I don't think typing "Prairie Chicken" should get you to Tympanuchus. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 20:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Well again, you could do the same survey for the Little White Tern and "noddy". And notice that it is just the first species that came to mind, there are probably many more. FunkMonk (talk) 20:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This would not be an issue if we had an article on Prairie Chickens holistically covering the different birds known by that name. We don't, and this is the article that most effectively conveys all of these types. The fact that some birds in the family are not Prairie Chickens is not a problem, so long as the primary meaning of the term does in fact refer to birds in the family. bd2412  T 00:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know enough to comment on the noddy article. I could see why it covers the Little White Tern if talking about the (other) noddies without the Little White Tern wouldn't make sense. The same is true of other species. I don't think it's true at all about the prairie-chickens. Maybe the best bet would be to expand Prairie Chicken to include information about what those two species have in common, but don't have in common with the Sharp-tailed Grouse? &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 17:01, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Fish & Wildlife to put Prairie Chicken on endangered list -
Several news stories about this - probably should be mentioned. HammerFilmFan (talk) 16:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)