Talk:UFO conspiracy theories/Archive 2

lede: "Some" ufos are non-human
The word "some" was added to lede, but removed with the query: "Which ufos do ufo CTs say *aren't* controlled by aliens?" Non-Alien UFOs are, in fact, a staple of UFO CTs. Feoffer (talk) 20:51, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The examples in that section claim that “alien technology” was supposedly used for secret projects. I’ll adjust accordingly. - LuckyLouie (talk) 02:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Title change to "UFO conspiracy theories in the United States"?
Title change to "UFO conspiracy theories in the United States"? The article is so long that accurately representing other parts of the world would bloat the article. If the article's title is changed, it makes clear that there's room for more articles on other parts of the world. Likeanechointheforest (talk) 19:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Agreed. It's going to be impossible to adapt this to a global perspective, if only for size reasons. Sure, we could add in more "Western" perspectives, but that wouldn't give as a global perspective.    UFO conspiracy theories in the United States is a perfect title for the cold-war era UFO conspiracy theories.   Feoffer (talk) 22:40, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Notes to self on Chronology
Feoffer (talk) 03:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Article currently makes it seem as if UFOCTs began in 30s, not 1950.  LA Air Raid, Ghost rockets, Roswell, Sign -- those were only retroactively cited as in UFOCT.   Roswell didn't join UFOCT until 1979/80!  -- not in Keyhoe articel, check book?
 * War of the Worlds??  why?   Answered -- Keyhoe!
 * Mantell - Currently cited to 2018 sources, need contemporary ufologists to find place in chronology.    Answered -- Keyhoe!
 * "Interplantery Phenomenon Unit" place in the chronology suggests it actually existed, but cited to 2000.  Removed!
 * Mariana not "conspiratorial". Yes it is, but only a teensy bit, import text from article to clarify later cooperation with air force.
 * Keyhoe and SCully are probably where chronology should start  -- answered!  made background section.
 * Majestic 12 doesn't belong in 1950s
 * Roberston pannel allegations need contemporary UFOologist to find place in chronlogy
 * Gray Barker 1956, good data point.
 * Gordon Cooper doesn't belong in 50s. - moved!
 * Vallee and Penatcle -- good data point
 * Alternative 3 expand to own section? no, doesn't actulaly mention UFOs
 * UFOs: Past, Present, and Future as own heading?
 * EBEs seems anachronistic for 74 -- check.
 * Bennewitz -- expand, but perhaps in the 80s
 * LMH clarify why conspiractorial (black helicopters, et al)
 * topical headings from Barkun?, Government as secretive 1950-1975,  Government as sinister 1975-2000
 * more analysis needed, no themes emerge
 * July 1989 -- this is where Bennewitz goes
 * John Ford radium case is fascinating, but not really tied to any UFOCTs so far as I see.
 * Adapt WotW and Early Sightings to background?

Chronological presentation alone is a little bit intellectually lazy of us -- it works, but it's messy. Can we use topicality to organize around, pre-chew this for our readers a little so they don't choke on info? Feoffer (talk) 23:55, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * USAF public proponents: Chop, Ruppelt, Hynek, Vallee, etc
 * Civilian researcher proponents: Keyhoe, Friedman, etc
 * Notable witnesses: Arnold, Mariana, etc

Bibliography.
Does the bibliography section of this article actually contain any sources we'd consider WP:RS on the subject of 'UFO conspiracy theories'? I've not read the works listed, but from their titles at least, most seem to be general UFO books of questionable merit. Since Wikipedia isn't a platform for advertising fringe-subject material, the list should probably be removed in its entirety. Anything directly relevant, and of sufficient credibility, is probably already be cited in the article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:56, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Good call. The fringe authors have been cut from the section, which should only point to non-adherent folklorists and historians who study the UFO myth.  Feoffer (talk) 00:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)