Talk:Ukrainian territorial defence battalions

National Guard?
What is the relation of the territorial battalions to the National Guard of Ukraine? The issue should be discussed in the article. Now there is not even a link. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

IP User Vandalism
Over the last 24 hours, one IP user utilizing multiple IP's has been changing article information to suit his own opinion changing "Pro-Russian Unrest" to "Anti-nationalist rebellion" and such kind of messages. I am hoping an Admin will intervene because they will not stop and change the page every few minutes. Check out the edits he has made in the history section because I'm taking all the steps and consulting other users on this. SantiLak (talk) 11:38, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Title
I've moved this page to the more appropriate translation "Territorial defense battalion", and added "(Ukraine)" for disambiguation. This is more in line with our guidelines on article titles, which ask that we use WP:SINGULAR forms when possible. This is also avoids the clunkiness of "of", which would not be used in that way in standard English. RGloucester — ☎ 16:38, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Ignorance is bliss!
This article is a complete mess made out of the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Interior and the National Guard of Ukraine different volunteer battalions and companies (yes, some of them are companies) which confuses and bewilders readers. What is funny, everything is already delineated in the Ukranian wiki but as we know imperial hubris sometimes blinds:
 * Territorial defense battalion of Ukraine
 * Special police detachments in Ukraine
 * Also note, that some of the so-called territorial defense battalions report only to the regional state administrations, some - are paramilitary formations of official and unregistered political organizations, which partly explains the confusion. In short, don't mess with stuff that you have no idea about....
 * Solution: rename it into "Volunteer battalions of Ukraine" which at least would bring some sense! Good luck, --Nabak (talk) 16:45, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that everybody agrees that it is the right time to make the next step and put this mess up for deletion as it spreads misinformation and spawns misleading stubs! Best, --Nabak (talk) 18:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice letter
For those interested in these battalions, perhaps this could find its way into the article. RGloucester — ☎ 22:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Article nominated for deletion
Since this article is a complete mess, as I already stated above, made out of the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Interior and the National Guard of Ukraine different volunteer (the Ministry of Interior) and conscripted (the Ministry of Defense, the 24th "Aidar" and the 11th "Kievan Rus" are the exceptions) battalions and companies (yes, some of them are companies) which confuses and bewilders readers and spawns ignorant stubs and edits not only on English Wikipedia but on all WP projects including Commons, I have nominated this article for deletion. The name is misleading, the content is confusing, the subject is misunderstood (these are not special police detachments, these are the Army detachments) and muddled, since the system of the territorial defense in Ukraine actually was introduced by Yanukovich on 2 September 2013 by his presidential decree № 471/2013. I have posted a notice about upcoming deletion on the article's talk page on 16 September 2014; nobody objected, so be it! --Nabak (talk) 22:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Volunteering
How long do they volunteer for? Is there a contract? Ledboots (talk) 19:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Article name
@ - is "Territorial defense battalions (Ukraine)" really the standard disambiguation for national militaries as you suggest?? Can you give me exact examples that support this? Sources usually use "Territorial defense battalions of Ukraine" rather than "Territorial defense battalions (Ukraine)", so according to the article sources and WP:Disambiguation, the page should be named either "Territorial defense battalions of Ukraine" (alternatively "Ukrainian Territorial defense battalions" as per Australian Defence Force, Russian Armed Forces etc.) or since there are no other "Territorial defense battalions", there is no disambiguation needed for this page actually; so it also would make more sense to name it "Territorial defense battalions" rather than "Territorial defense battalions (Ukraine)".--Der Golem (talk) 02:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. Leaving aside the obvious issue of whether this is a proper name or a descriptive one, per WP:MILMOS, "Territorial defense battalions" is so generic as to be completely useless as an article name, ie no-one will know by looking at it whose territorial defense battalions they are, or even if this is an article about the generic concept of territorial defense battalions. I had a similar discussion with an editor about the merits of "Muslim militia" as a useful WP:TITLE. It's not. Even if there are no other articles at "Territorial defense battalions" now, the likelihood of there being one in the future is very  high. Pre-emptively disambiguating this one by country with a view to that is a sensible course of action, IMO. It is also consistent with the MOS and TITLE. But if you believe I am wrong, feel free to RM it and see what the community thinks. Regards, Peacemaker67  (crack... thump) 07:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * @ - You choose to avoid to discuss 2 out of my 3 proposals for article naming; and also you don't provide any explanation for your "standard disambiguation for national militaries" claim so I assume that you just made it up. Next time please don't revert an edit just because it goes against your unsubstantiated ideas. I moved it according to actual standard "national militaries" titles such as Canadian Armed Forces, French Navy, Royal Australian Air Force, Brazilian Marine Corps etc., which have the affiliation at the beginning of the title, rather than in brackets: Ukrainian territorial defense battalions. Regards.--Der Golem (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, no. I didn't. I linked to MILMOS which explains this. Please try reading it. This is NOT a national military, ie Ukrainian Armed Forces, which you seem intent on comparing it to. We also generally don't "do" plurals. It is a type of unit. Ukrainian territorial defense battalion would be fine, of course. Just so long as Ukrainian is in the title. "of Ukraine" is inconcise and too formal, which is why I moved it in the first place. It is apparent to me that you are uninterested in advice, I will stop offering it. Good luck. Peacemaker67 (example crack... thump) 05:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * @ Please try to use more peace-making wording in discussion. Where you refer is "Units, formations, and bases". Unlike Donbas Battalion, this article is not about a specific battalion/unit to follow 4th Infantry Division (United Kingdom) (example from WP:MILMOS), but about a large group of battalions. The similarity between the "Ukrainian territorial defense battalions" and any kind of "any armed forces" that I pointed out is not whether they are a national military, but rather that both refer to a group of military units, so their affiliation should not be in brackets. I have known that Ukrainian territorial defense battalion would be fine, but you didn't seem to comprehend that until just now. It is apparent to me that your feeling of entitlement to give advice to others and your notion that others somehow need your advice is an attitude that some members of the community might find rather uninteresting. Good luck to you too.--Der Golem (talk) 07:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Btw both Ukrainian and Russian Wikis use plural "battalions".--Der Golem (talk) 08:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter what they do. We prefer singular here, and it was singular until you messed with it, and made it impossible to move it back to the longstanding singular title. See WP:SINGULAR. I also oppose any change. "Ukrainian" is not part of the name of these, so it cannot be included in front of the term. Please file an RM if you want to make a change, and gain consensus. RGloucester  — ☎ 03:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There has been a consensus on "Ukrainian" in front of the title until you messed it :) --Der Golem (talk) 04:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no consensus. Consensus is attained in an RM, not in discussion between two editors. The other editor preferred the original title. I reverted you bold move, and you never opened an RM. The burden is on you to attain consensus when you move an article from a longstanding title. Now, if you want anything, you'd better do it properly. RGloucester  — ☎ 04:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course consensus can be reached in discussion between two editors, if no other people join the discussion. Read WP:CON and don't fabricate non-exitent rules. That something is longstanding since you made it that way does not legitimize anything unless you think you WP:OWN the article. There is no restriction on discussing and reaching consensus about article moves on article talkpage; and there is no restriction on any WP:BOLD editing. In fact, bold editing is in 95% of cases the best way to save time unless one encounters a narcissistic editor (5% of the times). As I am totally fine with any article title here, I don't see what burden is on me. Now, if you want anything, you'd better do it properly. Cheers.--Der Golem (talk) 05:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Please, bold editor. The other party departed because he had no desire to deal with your continued nonsense. The longstanding title remains, per WP:TITLECHANGES. Attain consensus otherwise through an RM, or depart. It is hard to say that I "own" anything, considering I've never had anything to do with this bit. There is a restriction on your bold editing. It is called WP:BRD. It is a basic process. If a bold edit you make is reverted, attain consensus through the appropriate process. In this case, that's an RM. RGloucester  — ☎ 05:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Volunteer Battalion "Crimea"
There is also a Volunteer Battalion "Crimea" that will join the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But I lack the energy to find out more about it today :-|  —  Yulia Romero  •  Talk to me!  13:40, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Territorial defense battalions (Ukraine). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141025041936/http://atocrimea.ukrinform.ua/en/publication/ukraines-volunteer-battalions-the-new-model-army to http://atocrimea.ukrinform.ua/en/publication/ukraines-volunteer-battalions-the-new-model-army

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 18:44, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️ Confirmed as correct. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:57, 27 February 2016 (UTC)