Talk:University and college rivalry

Cleveland State & Case
What are these schools supposed to be rivals in? One is D-I, the other D-III and I've never heard of them playing one another. BigKennyK 19:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

With no response in over 2 months, I'm going to remove the Case/Cleveland State rivalry. BigKennyK 01:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Page Location
This page appears to be entirely about University rivalry. Should it be moved to University rivalry, as "School" does not mean "University" in all parts of the English-speaking world (it is never used to mean this in Britain), whereas I believe "University" is generally-understood? TSP 17:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

College rivalry might be better as there are a number of entries which are colleges and not universities. Brholden 18:33, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds fine - and it would bring it into line with the category names "College rivalry games" and "College rivalry trophies". TSP 19:44, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As there are a significant number of rivalries listed here which are primarly related to US institutions, many of which are related to college football, might it not be better to seperate those entries into a seperate sub-article?

How many in each rivalry?
Most of the entries are 2-way rivalries. One entry has the three-way Army-Navy-AirForce rivalry. Recently someone added a 5-way rivalry which undoubted is a much more diffuse, "tournament" level rivalry. I don't know where this stops - does this lead to adding say the "Big Ten" as a ten-way rivalry? What do people think? Brholden 18:33, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Another concern may be, "how many rivalries per institution"? Is the University of Florida really so disputative that it is capable of sustaining four notable rivalries?  I'd tend to expect that an institution would generally have at most one real rivalry worthy of mention.  Or, to put it another way, perhaps there should be an entry bar - to be worthy of inclusion on this page, a rivalry should be the generally-accepted principal rivalry for at least one of the institutions involved.  Which one this is should be obvious; if there isn't an obvious leader, that's fine - it means that institution has no rivalry sufficiently pre-eminent to be worthy of inclusion.  TSP 20:18, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The University of Florida's biggest rivalries are with the University of Georgia, because of the "Cocktail Party" and the Florida State University as it's cross state rival. AriGold 12:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think one thing you'll notice about teams is that they deem their rivals based on what teams are important to beat for their season not necessarily teams that they truly dislike. I'm a big fan of interstate or close proximity rivalries over conference rivalries but that's just me.Excaliburhorn
 * The assertion that neither the Florida-Florida State rivalry nor the Florida-Georgia rivalry are worthy of mention is totally ignorant of the most important qualites that a rivalry concerns: the perceived importance by the fans of those schools, the media, and the teams. Both of those games are extremely important to Florida, as any research would reveal to you. Both games are heavily hyped by the media and have had title implications numerous times in recent years.VmZH88AZQnCjhT40 (talk) 00:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The Big Ten should not be added as a ten-way rivalry; it should be added as an 11-way rivalry.

Eastern Rivals
Is this list getting too obscure with listings like University at Albany and Siena College's basketball rivaly? This is a rivalry of little to no importance even within the state of NY. I can understand many of the rivalries on here, Army-Navy, Bama-Auburn, Duke-UNC, FSU-Miami, and many others, but where do we end it? Should some sort of national recognition or importance come into play? I mean, SUNY Potsdam and Clarkson? Seems a tad local to be relevant. AriGold 12:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I made some changes to the Eastern rivals. I didn't take out SUNY-Albany and Siena, although I'd say there's a decent case to be made for taking it out, since their rivalry is relatively new and nationally insignificant. The RPI-Union rivalry I left in there, since it is the oldest college football rivalry in New York. SUNY-Potsdam and Clarkson never play each other in ice hockey (different divisions) so I don't know how that got in there. Clarkson's rivalry with St. Lawrence in ice hockey, however, is one of the fiercest and most significant in the nation, so I just replaced SUNY-Potsdam with St. Lawrence University. - RPIRED 14:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

-Does Tennessee/Kentucky really deserve to be on this list?

Order
How do we decide which team to put first? --68.190.51.99 01:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Unclear
"Though this contest is usually one-sided, it seems to be growing from year to year."

I don't understand this sentence. I'd attempt to fix it, but I really have no idea what it is attempting to say

Citadel - VMI = Service Academy?
They are public schools, in the South, not federal military academies. Unless anyone has objections, I'm gonna move them in the next week or so to the southeastern rivalries section.... Cornell Rockey 03:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Notre Dame
Deleted 'Notre Dame' football rivalries -- no school has 8 (or so) rivalries. ND-USC and ND-Michigan are certainly worthy of the list (if someone will add them to the appropriate place) but the school does not deserve it's own section.

Perhaps eight is excessive. Nonetheless, rather than performing mass deletions and then requesting that others fill the void you have left, it would be more productive to not delete the information that you think is appropriate for inclusion. Rather than simply reverting, I am going to restore the Notre Dame Rivals section, with USC and Michigan only. If others think that the nature of Notre Dame Football allows it to have eight rivals, I will not be offended if you add them back (I think that it would be polite to explain why you restored a rivalry in the Discussion). --Skeenbr0 03:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I can definitely 8 rivals. Instead of Miami (which wasn't a very sustained rivalry), I might suggest Stanford. Don't they play for a trophy of some sort?


 * Whether a school deserve 8 rivals or not is your personal opinion. If the rivalry exists (and widely acknowledged), there's every reason to list it here. Here's a possible site that included 5 of the Notre Dame rivalries (BC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC)- http://www.1122productions.com/rivalries/ . Primadog 12:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I define rivalry as a series where two teams (both the players and their fans) really want to beat each other and that they meet often. A series is basically two teams meeting each other often but at least one of the teams (both their players and fans) don't take their opponent as seriously as in a true rivalry game. For the most part what is described for Notre Dame "rivals" is a lot of long-standing series (some not so long-standing). As of this date, Notre Dame biggest football rivals are USC and Michigan primarily and then Purdue and Michigan State. Miami used to be a big rival in the 80's and 90's but that has changed. All the other "rivals" on this page for Notre Dame do not quite fit the definition of a rivalry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 (talk) 15:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Coordination
This page should be coordinated with [] and [] TonyTheTiger 14:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We should probably remove the "Merge" banner from the page as no discussion has happened on this since August. I personally think that merging would be a bad idea since this page is about rivalries in general (including basketball, hockey, and academic standing) and those pages are about football only.  If no discussion happens for a week or so, I will remove the banner.  Brholden 22:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, the banner should be removed. -- Howard  the   Duck  06:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * A little late, but I think US college football rivalries are taking over this article. Other articles containing "lists" have been broken into multiple articles when one section would be "too big". There is a separate article listing the college football ones (two actually, "rivalry games" and "trophies" (which are typically awarded to the winner of the game)), perhaps ONE place would be easier to maintain than two (or three)? vmz 09:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Miami FIU
Someone recently added Miami and Florida International as a “failed attempt to start a rivalry.” Whereas the football teams have only met once, whereas the media is now calling for this game to never be played again, whereas this list is already overburdened with secondary rivalries, and whereas this entry doesn’t match the criteria of the article (however hard it may be to see, it is actual college rivalry, not attempts) I propose that this “rivalry” be deleted. Please comment within a week if you see a need to save this entry. --Skeenbr0 00:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

No-one came forward to defend it, so I deleted it. If you revert, please justify here, and if the justification is reasonable, I will not object.--Skeenbr0 02:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It sounds like a good removal to me. Thanks. Johntex\talk 19:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please report the Kansas State editors who attempt to make up a rivalry with anyone but Kansas.
There is no such rivalry between Kansas State and the University of Texas (under the Big 12 section). There is a small bulletin board where the posters are actually bragging about editing the wikipedia to this effect. Peruse hornfans.com and you will see that the Kansas State game is not even a main topic of conversation. It is well known nationally that Texas has rivalries with Texas A&M and Oklahoma. Suggestion that any attempt to edit otherwise should result in the editor being banned.

This ip address is a one that certainly needs to be banned from editing this page:24.249.61.254 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mconstant37 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Kansas Nebraska
There is zero rivarly here. Utterly none. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatty4ksu (talk • contribs) 14:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

24.163.232.245 keeps editing this page falsely. We play the undo edit game every few weeks. Total vandal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mconstant37 (talk • contribs) 17:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There is bragging on the vandalism at this location: http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=16404.0  Mconstant37 (talk) 17:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Progress on citations
I think it might be in a good policy to not include any rivalry that does not include a legitmate citation. Otherwise, the definition of a rivalry becomes subject to interpretation.

After a given point in time, any additional rivalries have a pre-qreuisite of an included citation before included into this list.

I would definite a rivalry as when a trophy prize is given at the end of a match/competition. The match should be identified. A good example is the USC/UCLA & CAL/Stanford Lexus Gauntlet Amiaheroyet (talk) 15:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Per your belief, please provide a 'legitmate citation' for your definition of a rivalry.VmZH88AZQnCjhT40 (talk) 00:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The way I see it...
First, a lot of the problem with this page is that there are a lot of rivalries that are no longer rivalries. They should have their own page and get off this one.

Second, if rivals each won about half the time, the Red Sox and Yankees became a rivalry in 2004 and isn't before. A rivalry is teams that play all the time for decades. Typically, the game has a name other than the Team A-Team B rivalry or games start being known by specific names, e.g., Civil War, Red River Shootout, etc. Also, they will usually have a trophy of some kind or will have tried to implement one only to have it buried in the desert, lost, or stolen. There also is a story involving the trophy and at least one crazy brawl. Any other series is simply a series.

Third, rivalries are rivalries because the teams care more about the opponent than the opponent's rank. Often, teams play each other each highly ranked, but, if both teams stunk neither team would care. Those aren't rivals.

That said:

Penn State's only Big 10 rivals are Michigan State and Minnesota. Just because Michigan and Ohio State are good doesn't make Penn State their rival, no matter how much Penn State wants to be.

Penn State-Pittsburgh was a huge rivalry. Penn State-Pittsburgh-West Virginia was a huge rivalry. I guess Syracuse can be in there, though I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. This should go on the old rivalries page.

Notre Dame's rivalries don't include Army, Miami, and Northwestern. They include Stanford (Legends Trophy). Michigan is Notre Dame's fifth biggest rival. To leave off Boston College, Michigan State, and Purdue in favor of Michigan is dopey. If Michigan's Notre Dame's second-biggest rival, Penn State is Michigan's second-biggest rival. A rivalry means more to the teams than the records would warrant. Michigan and Notre Dame means a lot because they are generally both highly ranked. It's my firm belief that terrible records would take the wind out of the sails of this "rivalry." Other than them being the two winningest teams in college football, how are they rivals? Michigan State and Purdue have proximity. BC has religion. Notre Dame-USC has history. What does Michigan have?

Arizona and Oregon aren't rivals. I loathe Oregon, but Arizona is filled with poor sports that are tasteless. If Arizona was a rival with every team that thought that, they'd be a rival with everyone they played. Stoops has turned a once-proud program into Fresno State East.

Oregon State and Washington aren't rivals. Oregon and Washington are. Any Beaver fan who says otherwise is jealous or ignorant.

Stanford and USC (two private Pac-10 schools) are bigger rivals than Cal and USC. A couple decent years does not a rivalry make.

Auburn and Florida are much bigger rivals than Auburn and LSU. If any Florida "rivalry" isn't one, it's Auburn-Florida. It should go on the old rivalry page. Auburn and LSU are merely the two best teams in the West.

East Carolina and NC State aren't rivals no matter how much North Carolina wants them to be.

Louisville and West Virginia aren't rivals; they just play in the worst BCS conference.

Florida and Miami(FL) aren't rivals. They used to be.

All in all, the goal of this page should be to eliminate rivalries.

Wilkyisdashiznit (talk) 06:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Art schools
I am uncertain how art schools can have team rivalries, which is the name of the page. Perhaps, they should have their own page. The section probably should be removed from this page. Wilkyisdashiznit (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Old Big East rivalries continue
Old Big East men's basketball rivalries will continue in new settings, e.g. Syracuse vs. Georgetown, Syracuse vs. Villanova, Syracuse, vs. Louisville... These may fit best under 'interstate' rivalries for now, w/ the latter continuing into the ACC as of 2014. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

French IEPs
In my opinion the reference to Sciences Po Paris's 'Grande Ecole' status should be removed, as the other IEP also have this status. I think 'Elite institution' is enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.234.30.202 (talk) 21:39, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

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