Talk:Utah State Route 201

Assessment
This article was assessed 22 June. However, I feel that now it meets the B-class criteria. CL — 23:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * While I won't reassess it as C, I'd like to see some references in the route description section, and possibly have the RD split into two paragraphs for readability. -- Kéiryn (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will attempt to work on that in the near future sometime. CL — 00:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Told you I'd work on it ;) CL (T · C) — 02:15, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

ending location?
Looking at the UTAH designations for the end point of U-201, I'm finding 2 different ending points. Reference #8 points to US 89, while reference #9 shows the end at the onramps to I-15. Any ideas? I can make the map either way. 25or6to4 (talk) 02:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a tough call. It's a case of the legal description not matching the "reality" description. I'd say whichever you feel is best. No matter which one you choose someone won't like it =-) Dave (talk) 02:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I emailed UDOT about this several years ago, and they said "I understand that they are working on where this route is going to end, possibly making a new state route from 900 West running easterly to US-89 with SR-201 ending as we have it." Obviously this has not happened, and (as of whenever Google Street View got their photos) signs are posted to US-89. It's also shown in red on the official map. --NE2 03:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Street View was done Summer of '07 here I believe. But we have two contradictory views here. The route log PDF for SR-201 says the route ends at the beginning of the on-ramps to I-15/I-80 and at the end of the gore point of the on-ramp from 900 West. So the on-ramps from SR-201 east to I-15 and I-80 are technically not part of SR-201. The legislative definition in the route log reads "From Route 80 at Lake Point Junction easterly on Twenty-first Street to the On Ramp from 900 West", while the legislative definition in the route history PDF reads "From Route 80 at Lake Point Junction easterly to 900 West; then northerly to 2100 South Street; then easterly to Route 89." However, I think the route log should be taken the most seriously, so what do you think about the red line ending right before the on-ramps? In any event, this isn't important as I thought it was, the map is still pretty accurate (I wasn't aware that SR-201 was changed. Or was it? Argh...). CL — 19:56, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The question I emailed about was in reference to the route log. UDOT knows that it maintains the piece east of I-15, but doesn't like to call it SR-201 in some contexts. --NE2 00:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As a testament to UDOT's displeasure in admitting they maintain that severely congested four-lane road east of the freeway to US-89, they posted signs at the junction of SR-201 at US-89 that say "TO SR-201". Before, it was a direct arrow suggesting SR-201 terminated there. Oh well, what do you suggest we do with the map? CL — 06:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. That certainly muddles things a bit. Maybe a different color could be used for that part? --NE2 15:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we might as well highlight the rest of the route with the normal color seeing as it is still technically part of the route (or it's not, considering it's not on the route log...). Okay, scratch that, a different color sounds good. I did drive by the technical eastern terminus of SR-201 at US-89, and there is a "End of State Maintenance" sign at the end, which means UDOT should still have at least some control over the non-freeway portion. I've seen the California maps that you've made, I think the pink/salmon color in Image:California State Route 90.svg is sufficient. I'll notify 25or6to4 on his talk page just to make things faster and because I have a side-request that I could file for sake of speed. CL — 06:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rail
I know the big UP rail yard is at the eastern terminus of 201, but what is the the name of the RR line that pretty much parallels the route near Kennecott? -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • [ log]) 04:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My Benchmark atlas labels it as "KCCX" I can guess what the KC is for, I'll leave the CX for someone else. Most likely it was built as a spur to the Feather River Route which is the line that loosely parallels the old route of US-40 (North Temple Street) before I-80 was finished. =-) Dave (talk) 04:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you throw together a cite map code for your atlas for me? -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • [ log]) 04:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well What do you know List of AAR reporting marks: K. Dave (talk) 04:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So its Kennecott rail. Mkay. -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • [ log]) 04:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Here, You is....

Dave (talk) 05:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Could've asked me - I've become an expert on this in the past few weeks :)

There have been five different companies going east or southeast from Garfield. From north to south, these are:
 * Salt Lake, Garfield and Western Railway, now cut back to about 6000 West
 * Western Pacific Railroad, later UP's westbound track
 * Los Angeles and Salt Lake Railroad (UP), later UP's eastbound track
 * Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad branch, now Savage Bingham and Garfield Railroad to Magna
 * Bingham and Garfield Railway, built by (Kennecott) Utah Copper and replaced by a private electric line in 1948

The Kennecott line is, as discussed above, the one that parallels SR-201 west of Magna. The D&RGW used to be between SR-201 and that line, but is no longer operated (or may be operated by Kennecott?) past this point. --NE2 06:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You were who I was looking for :p -- I added in the basic info on the parallel rail line, but if you think you could expand it somehow, that would be great -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • [ log]) 06:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You should mention the Lincoln Highway remnants alongside SR-201 in Kennecott property: The SR-4 history PDF shows their bypassing. --NE2 06:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Musings and ruminations...
I recall a while back there being confusion as to whether US-40 or US-40 Alternate was routed through 2100 South on Salt Lake's east side, right? Well, I ran into a newspaper article from 1959 that lists US-40A going through Foothill Drive and 4th South into Downtown (so one would assume US-40 at that time would go through 21st South). This article from '62 states the Highway Department was looking into switching the alignment of the two routes. By 1975, US-40A was now on 2100 South, judging by |Salt+Lake+City|UT|&Addr=2100+S+900+W%2c+Salt+Lake+City%2c+UT+84119&ALon=-111.9168690&ALat=40.7257200 this topographical map of the area (you can barely see the Alt 40 shield in purple). Basically: Does the history already mention this? It's a bit confusing since it uses the internal designations of U.S. routes at the time.
 * In 1962, US-40 went through 2100 South and US-40A went north on present day SR-186. However, by this time they were considering switching the alignments of the two
 * By 1975, the two were switched.

As for U.S. 50 Alternate on present-day SR-201, it still existed in 1972 through Magna, judging by this. This newspaper article from '60 [scroll down a little and there's a map of Salt Lake, pretty interesting] gives 21st South through Sugar House the US-50A designation - apparently, that and US-40 were cosigned in that area? But what happens to US-40 as it heads west toward Magna? Does it turn up State Street and then continue west on North Temple toward the airport? Hmm... CL (T · C) — 03:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good find. I agree that focusing on the internal designations is not helpful to the non-roadgeek reader, and the article should mostly focus on the signed designations. I say go for it, I can see your next GA from here =-).

For the record, I have the 1974 UDOT map, Here is what it shows:
 * The statewide map on the front is not detailed enough to show the alignment in downtown SLC, but 21st south is denoted at both SR-201 and ALT-50 in what was then Granger (now called West Valley City).  Citation text:
 * The Salt Lake City inset on the back shows ALT-40 as running along Foothill Drive. There is no mention of the SR-186 designation and no mention of where mainline US-40 runs. The only US-40 shield shown is along North Temple west of Redwood Road. However at the time I-80 was not constructed west of Redwood Road. It shows 21st south as ALT-50 west of I-15 and no designation east of I-15. Citation text:

So if we take this literally the changeover would have to be between when the cartography on this map was done (most likely 1973, although the copyright date is 1974) and 1975, per the source you found. I know from personal experience that in the late 1970's Foothill dr. was signed as US-40 mainline. Dave (talk) 07:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the thorough reply. Here's what's gotta be recapped for GA:

Once we know all of this, a good article will be possible (and I'll try finding some of this information on my own, but perhaps you know some of the answers to these questions Dave? Of course, if anyone else knows this they can say so as well). It'll take some work, but I think getting this article to GA will be well-worth it. CL (T · C) — 23:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Where did US-40(A) turn off of SR-201 toward downtown? I'm assuming State Street. And west of State St (if this really is where US-40 turned off), SR-201 was US-50A until, when?
 * The history currently states the highway was removed from the system east of State in '69 - I'm assuming this only applies to SR-201 and not the US-40 designation.
 * Before I-80 was constructed, SR-201 ended at US-40 on the west end, I'm assuming? And judging by this overhead image from 1958, SR-201 terminated on its east end at that skewed intersection-thing with US-40(A) and SR-171.
 * I think it would be good to know every designation State Street carried at its intersection at SR-201 (US-91, US-50A?, US-89?, ...)
 * When were the 3200 West and 5600 West interchanges built? I'm guessing late '80s, but a source is needed. We know through SR-154's history that the Bangerter Hwy exit was built 1991.

Assembling a timeline
Here's what I have to help out. Feel free to add more to this table (I've got sorted chronologically) and ask for any citation texts if you want to use

The Utah Travel Council map is a special case, I bought the map in 1984-5ish. It's a very detailed map, however, by all appearances it was originally drafted in the 1970's with manual patch updates to the 1980's. I cannot find any dates on the map. These patches are not applied consistently and as such it is not suitable for a timeline or dates (i.e. it shows US-91 fully intact and intersecting with freeways that would not be built until long after US-91 was obliterated, etc.)

Another resource for the highways leading to Nevada is the Nevada DOT map archive at (They have every NDOT map ever published, wouldn't that be nice UDOT wink, wink, hint, hint). However from my research on the US-50 article I can tell you that the highway between SLC and Wendover was US-40/50 until 1954, then US-40/US-50 Alt from then until 1977ish when it all just became I-80.

NR= Not enough Resolution to tell Dave (talk) 05:46, 5 January 2010 (UTC) ALthough not perfect, the progression of these maps is starting to paint a picture


 * Dave, that truly goes above and beyond of what was asked. Truly, thank you so much. I've started on a draft of the revised history, but that probably won't be done tomorrow as my schedule is packed. Once the history is done I'll tell you which map references I'll need to use as well. Once the history is done, I'll begin on the route description. A few tweaks here and there, and SR-201 will be ready for a GAN. CL (T · C) — 03:41, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. If this ever becomes a good article, you certainly get to display the infobox saying you were responsible for it. Again, thank you!
 * Ahh, it was only a couple of hours worth of work. The paper maps I already had, and most of the on-line ones were found by NE2. I was actually hoping he would chime in with some more. I did find one more, a 1937 map. AddingDave (talk) 06:23, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Work on refs
Here are the ones I'll add and format myself later:
 * '59 aerial http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9282
 * '65 http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9283
 * '71 http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9286
 * '77 http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9287
 * '06 http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9285


 * SR-201: SR-154 -> SR-172 project


 * SR-201: SR-202 -> I-80 project


 * 4000 West reference -


 * beginning of Spaghetti Bowl construction which began 15 April 1997


 * end of Spaghetti Bowl construction which ended 15 July 2001


 * SR-201 from Redwood to Bangerter - 2004 to 2006

I'll need the '26, '37, '60, '79, the UT Travel Council, and the '86 map refs. CL (T · C) — 03:56, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

FYI, According to the FWHA, the date of completion of the last piece of I-80 was August 22, 1986 per This would be a better source than the 86 mapDave (talk) 05:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

How's it looking? CL (T · C) — 20:26, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's looking much better. Thanks and congratulations. I do have a couple of items to suggest:


 * 1) On the graphic showing what the intersection of 21st south and state, US-89 is omitted, which would have run concurrent with US-91. I understand that this might clutter the image, it might be best to just state US-89 was routed concurrent with US-91 in the caption.
 * 2) On that same graphic, as this is a "period" image, you can get away with using the (IMO) much cooler cut-out 50's style shields than the (IMO butt-ugly) black squares used now (hint hint) =-)
 * 3) Dan Stober's website is used as a source. As much as I admire, respect and trust Dan's work, this may cause you grief at GA as it's a personal website (the policy on this is WP:SPS). However, it shouldn't be too hard to find alternate sources for 21st south is signed the Pony Express and Lincoln Highway.
 * 4) 21st South also historically carried mainline US50, prior to 1954. On the maps listed above only one shows US-50 mainline. I get the 1954 date from the above Nevada Map Archive.
 * Good Luck!!!Dave (talk) 23:15, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. As for the link to Stober's website, I meant to cite the photo that shows the Pony Express/Lincoln Highway signage. However, if it's still a no-no for GA then I'll attempt to find something else. As for the graphic, I thought US-89 was extended past Spanish Fork with the advent of the Interstate Highway - the image is meant to reflect the state of things in 1960 (perhaps I'm mistaken and 89 really did go up that far by then). And as for the shields, I considered doing the cutouts (I also...dislike the modern ones) but I believe they stopped using those right around '60. However, I used the older-style new shields (which are a bit narrower than the current ones) so it's still pretty correct. CL (T · C) — 23:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * IIRC, US-89 was not in the 1925 draft plan for US-Highways, but was in the 1926 plan. I know it had to be around by the mid 1930's as that's when U.S. Route 189 was formed. At any rate, it was around long before the Interstates started showing up. As for the shields, I was wondering if you modified the fonts to look more "60'sish" but I don't have a good eye for details like that. Well done.! Dave (talk) 23:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One more thing. I'd either cut out the External links, or find new ones. The only one there is Dan Stober's page (like to the original, dead version), which is already used as a source. If this gets cut for a source, absolutely, keep it.Dave (talk) 23:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I know US-89 existed since 1926, but the US-89 in Utah article states initially it only extended up to Utah County. However, the 1963 USGS map does show US-89 extending through Salt Lake, so I'll modify the caption to include it. I'll ref the fact that it was once US-50 as well if you can give me the ref for it. I'll also cut out the external links for now - I totally forgot about that section. CL (T · C) — 23:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I realized the map's already linked. I'll get the ref taken care of CL (T · C) — 23:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hopefully we're good now. Apparently, the fact 21st South was mainline US-50 was already listed in the history section, but never expounded upon. CL (T · C) — 00:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I like it, well done. Again good luck at GAC. I did find some sources that would probably be better for the earlier trails. If you don't mind I'll update the article to reflect these sources.


 * Lincoln Highway Association: http://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/info/ut/
 * Indiana University of Pennsylvania: http://www.chss.iup.edu/kpatrick/Lincoln%20Highway%20Resource%20Guide/CH15%20Lincoln%20Highway%20in%20Utah.doc
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=y0Fz8raz2LsC&pg=PA61&dq=pony+express+salt+lake+city&cd=8#v=onepage&q=pony%20express%20salt%20lake%20city&f=false Pony Express follows Lincoln Highway
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=LvVtslq3YJEC&pg=PA91&dq=pony+express+salt+lake+city&cd=2#v=onepage&q=pony%20express%20salt%20lake%20city&f=false No road exactly follows Pony Express

Dave (talk) 07:01, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.utah.com/mormon/pioneer_trail_history.htm California Trail

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