Talk:Utilitarianism

referencing Jeremy Bentham's INTRODUCTION TO THE PRINCIPLES OF MORALS AND LEGISLATION
AN INTRODUCTION TO THE PRINCIPLES OF MORALS AND LEGISLATION, Jeremy Bentham, 1789.

from Preface:

"Note.—The First Edition of this work was printed in the year 1780; and first published in 1789. The present Edition is a careful reprint of 'A New Edition, corrected by the Author,' which was published in 1823."

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also

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_the_Principles_of_Morals_and_Legislation

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Peter Singer on giving benefit of the doubt to shrimp and oysters.
“ .  .  .  and in the first edition of this book I suggested that somewhere between shrimp and an oyster seems as good a place to draw the line as any. Accordingly, I continued occasionally to eat oysters, scallops, and mussels for some time after I became in every other respect, a vegetarian. But while one cannot with any confidence say that these creatures do feel pain, so one can equally have little confidence in saying that they do not feel pain. Moreover, if they do feel pain, a meal of oysters or mussels would inflict pain on a considerable number of creatures. Since it is so easy to avoid eating them, I now think it better to do so.” -Peter Singer, Animal Liberation. 1990, (171-174) http://www.wesleyan.edu/wsa/warn/singer_fish.htm

Precedence of Good and Number?
An obvious question, to which I couldn't find a ready answer in this article, is which takes precedence? The greater good for the lesser number, or the lesser good for the greater number? Or is this variable dependent on circumstance? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.151.210.84 (talk) 09:59, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It depends on how much greater and how many. Increasing the happiness of 10 people by 1 unit each beats increasing the happiness of 2 people by 4 units each. Some theorists refer to these units as hedons. According to the standard version, utilitarianism is about maximizing the sum-total of hedons. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:16, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

White Lies
Dear Phlsph7, lying is not as complicated as torture; my ref gave explanation and the lead is the proper place because there is Utilitarian Evil in utilitarianism and people should know it. May I proceed now?Zopyr (talk) 17:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello and thanks for bringing this to the talk page. From your source: ... but there are some cases - white lies or mercy lies - where it may be OK to tell lies. This is an example of 'rule-utilitarianism'; considering every single action separately is 'act-Utilitarianism'. These two forms of Utilitarianism could lead to different results: An act-Utilitarian might say that telling a lie in a particular case did lead to the best results for everyone involved and for society as a whole, while a rule-Utilitarian might argue that since lying made society a less happy place, it was wrong to tell lies, even in this particular case.
 * This passage contradicts the very general claim you want to add, i.e. that "Utilitarians support the white lies". Phlsph7 (talk) 20:24, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Some utilitarians support the white lies. May I add it? Zopyr (talk) 16:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The new version avoids the problem mentioned in my last reply but it has various other problems that were mentioned earlier. The lead of an article should provide a summary of the most important points of the article, see WP:LEAD. White lies are not discussed in the current article. So there is no good reason for adding this rather vague and uninformative claim to the lead. Phlsph7 (talk) 04:18, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Lying is probably one of the most common wrong acts that we carry out. People should know the stand of utilitarians about this. Lying is also an important subject in religions and Kantian ethics. Think about adding instead of deleting. Zopyr (talk) 17:29, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I've already presented my main arguments, linked them to the corresponding wikipedia guidelines, and provided suggestions for an alternative approach to this issue. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:37, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Key phrases
Every system needs key phrases that briefly describe it. May I proceed now? Zopyr (talk) 09:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and does not use keywords in this way. We have a short description (in this case "Ethical theory based on maximizing well-being"; and see WP:SDESC for further explanation). All other key elements should be mentioned in the lead (see MOS:LEAD). If you feel the current lead is inadequate, raise your issues here, but inserting a random "key phrases" section is not the way forward. GrindtXX (talk) 12:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)