Talk:Vagina dentata

Dermoid cyst
penis panics are 'ende mic' in asia now is it? HiS oWn 22:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I rather doubt that dermoid cysts are the origin of the idea of the vagina dentata. (And how, frankly, would it ever be known what the origin was?) If no source can be cited, that paragraph should go. Dermoid cysts have no particular affinity for genitals, so said "teeth" can occur nearly anywhere, yet one does not hear of an eyebrow dentata. - Nunh-huh 04:38, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * That claim is made on the Dr. Dean Edell external link; not sure if it's original to there. Smerdis of Tlön 11:35, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * The Dean Edell link tells an anecdote about a woman with a dermoid cyst in her vagina, but it certainly doesn't say that the idea of the vagina dentata originated with such a case. - Nunh-huh 17:20, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't claim that it is the source of the myth, only that there is some reality in the myth. I think it is likely that the two are related. A vaginal dermoid cyst during the Dark Ages, or even well before then, certainly would not be understood as a medical condition. Even well intentioned and certainly more modern folks like Freud could make huge blundering mistakes of that same nature. We don't hear of eyebrow dentata for the simple fact that Freud popularized the vagina dentata term for specific purposes. Just because dermoid cysts can create effects that are a superset that includes vagina dentata doesn't rule it out as a possible reality source of the myth. - 63.109.236.92 20:11, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * You think it is likely: I think it is unlikely. Is there some citable authority/source that can be quoted that suggests that a dermoid cyst gave rise to the myth of the vagina dentata? - Nunh-huh 20:16, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Lemme try this again... I was distracted. I don't care if it is a source of the myth at all. It is a reality that causes an effect remarkably similar to the myth. Medically, it carries the same name as the myth. In those regards it is linked with the myth. The Dr. Dean Edell piece should certainly be enough to show there is that linkage between the myth and the reality. Chicken and the egg: I don't care which came first. - UtherSRG 20:28, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * So then let us not imply causality in our choice of headings. If no reputable source specifies that a dermoid cyst is "behind" the myth, neither should we. If a reputable source can be found for the speculation that a rare deformity "may" be an origin of the vagina dentata, we should cite it: if it is merely our speculation, we should avoid it.  - Nunh-huh 20:51, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)~

Freud and the vagina dentata
I'm not aware that Freud ever wrote about the vagina dentata. He thought the vagina inspired castration anxiety because it was evidence of a castration that had already taken place -- not because it threatened to enact a castration in the future. The first paragraph of this entry may need to be rewritten. Tcassedy 00:09, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Has this part been rewritten? The article reads accurately to me. A citation was needed. I had read the book and found it on project Gutenberg. Here is the citation:http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14969/14969-h/14969-h.htm#p56//Zarthon 01:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

"it is often falsely attributed to Sigmund Freud." So to whom should it be attributed, then? I think this needs clarifying. --210.1.207.118 14:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The article as now written is wrong. I'm not sure if Freud explicitly uses the term "vagina dentata", but the notion of the vagina as a devouring threat is definitely present in his work. I'm going to try to fix this in the near future. Aryder779 (talk) 22:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Image
The rather disturbing and graphic image at the top of this page may be a bad idea. I think it should be at the bottom with a warning - or not inline at all, but linked - but would like to get some input before making a change. Nickptar 01:13, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It doesn't need to be in the article at all, as far as I am concerned. Fire Star 01:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't censored, shall I remind you. Yesitsnot (talk) 04:56, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Confusing literary reference
I have removed the following text from the "References" section:


 * "In Will Self's Cock and Bull (1992), Carol has grown a penis below her vagina, which empowers her to dominate her husband, Dan, in the sexual acts. The vagina dentata (toothed vagina) also threatens the phallic power and masculinity of her husband. The mysterious darkness inside the female genital is complicated with the surrealistic appearance of the penis on a woman's body. The teeth is actualized by the female's penis, which threatens the penis of her husband in return. For the detailed passage in the novel, refer to p. 53 of the novel (1992, London: Penguin)."

It seems to me like it belongs under "Examples in popular culture and literature", but I am not inclined to reinsert it without reworking some awkward grammar: "in the sexual acts"; "inside the female genital"; "The teeth is actualized". It also contains irrelevancies such as introducing character names and repeating the translation of "vagina dentata". I was unable to clean it up myself because to be honest, I don't understand it. How is growing a penis the same as growing teeth? TheDewi 02:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Ummm...what?
"All four hosts of "The View" reportedly have vagina dentata. New host, Rosie O'Donnell is said to have "bad vagina dentata" and is required to floss. The only host not to have vagina dentata is former host Star Jones Reynolds. The reason stated by Star was that her legs were too fat and would chafe, therefore, leaving no teeth. " Vandalism? Caligi 21:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

...well, duh. Master Deusoma (talk)

Mircea Eliade
First of all, I'm sad to see the contemptible puritans have won once more, that is to say, the "disturbing"(LOL LOL LOL) toothed-vulva picture that ornamented the article "Vagina dentata" has been removed. Secondly, it is surprising that nobody has cared to mention that the toothed vagina plays a fundamental role in TRADITIONal initiation rites(the word TRADITION having here its *original* meaning, namely...{go consult the multi-volume edition of the "well-known" Oxford English Dictionary, ok?}). Putting things bluntly, the ones who Wiki-write about vagina dentata apparently have never even perused the works of Mircea Eliade; surely that is an exceedingly-shameful situation -.-

Most sincerely,

KSM-2501ZX, IP address:= 200.143.1.33 10:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Popular culture
Currently, articles such as Vagina dentata in popular culture are not standing on their own at Afd, but being deleted or merged to the main article. I suggest we do that here without having to wait for the afd. I realise it was here once, & personally I see nothing wrong with having the separate article, but the consensus is that it wont pass by itself. DGG (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No one's opposed the merge in about a month. I'll go ahead and do that. K e rowyn Leave a note 03:46, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * and now i see someone unilaterally deleted that portion, clearly against consensus here. i have reverted it. DGG (talk) 22:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

What about adding a reference to Aeire's Queen of Wands strip about Vagina Dentata? This is the location of the strip: http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040121.html I find it hilarious, first place I heard about the myth. I've never edited on Wikipedia though, so not sure how/where to add it. Anyone else think this is worth adding? I don't think it would violate copyright, since the link goes straight to her own website. There's my two cents ;)

Trivia Section and lack of references
I think that a lot of the stuff in the trivia section is really just superfluous. Maybe it's just because I'm female, but I feel like a lot of this article - especially the "pop culture" section - contains things that are really not that culturally significant. Or significant at all. Some of the references seem completely random (as found on the internet?), and the Ursula deal... can anyone find a reference for that? I don't think it's verifiable at all. Ministry of Silly Walks 03:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Apocalypse Zero?
Maybe someone should mention anime Apocalypse Zero, where was women with this phenomenon.. 213.211.34.213 (talk) 13:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

No, no one should mention anime anywhere. 98.117.0.79 (talk) 08:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

No real cases?
Ive read about lots of strange diseases and conditions that can cause bone or teeth to grow in unusual places, is there no condition where teeth in a vagina or something like teeth actually occur? 59.167.131.231 (talk) 19:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Witches
Isn't it part of folklore that witches have teeth in thier vagina which they use to bite off the penises of fornicators. Basicly a myth made up by the church to stop people having sex outside of marriage. Does anyone know of a referance for that?

Something in the bible says that or the gospel. This is some pretty screwed up stuff. 72.192.48.119 (talk) 21:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Citation for that being in Bible, please? I've apparently got an incomplete copy, then, because mine says nothing even resembling that...76.179.227.210 (talk) 18:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I think one source is the Malleus Maleficarum which has a page here on Wikipedia. ( Mark Saltiel) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.54.70.34 (talk) 11:28, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Real?
After watching the movie trailer and being redirected to http://www.vagident.co.uk/ from the movie website www.teethmovie.com, I get the impression that this is a real medical problem, "affecting approximately 1 in 12 million women" as mentioned on that website.

I take it though, that this is just a big joke/myth as various other places in the internet (Including this ecyclopedia) do have it as a myth. So is it just a myth? Just curious! 212.219.92.189 (talk) 08:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

ofcourse its just a myth —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.59.16 (talk) 05:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

All myths originate from somewhere, find the source and you find your answer. With what little I can find about it on the Internet, I would dare say that the myth originates from the rare medical condition and that together they create a taboo. However, I am always surprised how quick people are to dismiss and deny issues such as this one. MaurolepisDreki (talk) 17:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Applications
If its Myths so please tell about more for tht........i realy need to know.... There are a few archaic chastity devices inserted into the vagina using teeth to snag and tear the inserted penis apart, FYI.

Snakes
Why are all these unrelated bits about snakes in this article? Luminifer (talk) 18:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you want an image or don't you?
I add a good one, and Wknight94 takes it down immediately. Thanks bud, you're the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.68.84 (talk) 02:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * @68.40.68.84 send the image 41.116.227.73 (talk) 10:51, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Movie
Should there be a reference to the movie "Teeth" - which is about a girl with the condition?77.166.184.211 (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there should be, as the movie led me to this page. Also the move specifically refers to this myth/condition.

Latin
"Vagina dentata is Latin for toothed vagina." A small thing, but the Latin word vagina actually translates to "sheathe," and not directly into "vagina." Saying vagina dentata translates to "toothed vagina" isn't true. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=vagina 98.117.0.79 (talk) 13:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You are technically correct, the more accurate translation may be "toothed bite". But as this article does not strictly relate to this translation, Would you care to provide an alternate text, noting that the existing passage is an accepted translation by modern society?  MaurolepisDreki (talk) 18:23, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Google translate says "vagina" can mean "vagina, sheath, scabbard, CASE, vagina, Hull, husk". It list the most likely word, then list other possibilities below on the page.   D r e a m Focus  21:24, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Frankfretishburg
"Vagine Cultatgo is Frank for the tooth ridden vagina." A horrible, distraught brought among women to indubitably destroy man-kind.

Actual Medical condition
It is an actual medical condition recognised by gynaecologists. Please watch the following if you disagree before adding your comments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6IPjfgRkxk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.20.102 (talk) 14:10, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you look at the description on that Youtube page, you'll see "Viral to promote the movie 'Teeth' " (i.e., it's not real). See also the thread "Real?" above. Deor (talk) 14:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm having some trouble finding it by this name as a medical condition, but I would say that the video found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHN1GvF40I is not propaganda for the movie Teeth. Also, due to the nature of the known condition, Dermoid cyst, and that it has been known to grow other structures including teeth, I would say that there is a vary real chance for this occurrence, just not good chance (the last numbers I saw were 1 in 12 million). If someone knows where they can find a definite reference, such as in a medical textbook or article, we can put this issue to rest. MaurolepisDreki (talk) 18:08, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Denticular Hymen - Medical Source?
A highly questionable website refers to a type of hymen called the denticular hymen, which they report as being very rare. http://www.healthystrokes.com/hymengallery.html While obviously possible, we need to check up on the veracity of this claim by cross referencing it with other sources, if they exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.192.170 (talk) 19:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood it as it it is not teeth, it just the edges of the hymen form in a pattern that resembles teeth but it is clearly stated that is still just tissue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.53.254 (talk) 08:36, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Dermoid cysts
Since the medical doctor Lissa Rankin is already referenced elsewhere in the article, I referenced that same book as well as another one of hers which confirms this information on how it is possible for the medical condition dermoid cyst to make this happen.  D r e a m Focus  17:08, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Anti-rape device is more accurate than self-defense device
Concerning this edit. A "self-defense device" could mean different things, while "anti-rape device" is more specific, explaining what this is. A Google search of the book shows six places "dentata" is mentioned. One of these calls it "The last line in personal selfdefense", but doesn't call it a self defense device. The reference for it links to a source that calls the thing in the book an anti-rape device. A news story on that site calls it that also.  D r e a m Focus  16:25, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm reading the book and am almost finished, so I'll reserve judgment until I do, but it's usage indicates that the dentana is used to render the non wearer unconscious via an injection of narcotics so the wearer can escape afterwards. Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:16, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm also certain that the source technovelgy is anything but a RS. The content from both of the links you submitted, and most links from that site, are generated from volunteer contributors, just like Wikipedia.  The opinions expressed on technovelgy are no more reliable than yours or mine.  Just as Wikipedia can't be used as a reliable source, neither can technovelgy.  So what that leaves us with is no reliable sources 'except the book itself.  Perhaps we should go with the quote "last line in personal defense", or describe the workings of the device.  But we have no valid reason to call it an anti rape device.  The eay the book describes it, it does not prevent rape.  A uncouth analogy, but this is like closing the barn door after the horses escape.Two kinds of pork (talk) 07:37, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure if they have editorial oversight. Google news search shows them  and 53 Wikipedia articles link to it now  but that doesn't really prove anything.  It is clearly a device to prevent rape by making the rapists worry about whether or not their victim has one in them.  How about this .  The book say "She's not afraid; she's wearing a dentata" after she is forced to undress.  Perhaps just word it to mention exactly what the device does.   D r e a m Focus  09:23, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Since we can't establish oversight, we can't use it. But I can see why you might come to the conclusion you have made about this being a device to prevent rape, but in the case of Snow Crash, that is NOT clear.  In general, dentata can be seen as such a device -- to instill fear into would be rapists that their victim may be using one.  Without having read the book (I'm assuming you haven't) it's not a reasonable assumption to make.  The dentata in this novel doesn't have the same immediate effect as the "traditional" dentata.  The would be rapist (and in the case of Snow Crash, the sex is consensual) never notices the presence of one until long after Y.T. is gone.  The reason Y.T. wears one is to help her escape after being raped, and continue on her mission.  She's more afraid of not being able to perform her job as a courier than she is of being raped, as bizarre as that may seem.   Snow Crash is about a dystopian arachno-capitalist society and full of oddball odds and ends like this.  We probably should just describe how the device works, and that Y.T. uses one in the course of her courier duties.Two kinds of pork (talk) 13:19, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Vaginal teeth
As seen with this link, I reverted an IP who added text into other text (it was added in a messy way and without any reliable sources supporting it; it also conflicted with the current text). With this edit, I decided to remove the section per "WP:MEDRS, etc." And as seen with this edit, Dream Focus reverted me, stating, "one reference was to a book where a medical doctor specifically mentions this. The other references include an actual photograph. This information is in the Dermoid cyst article as well.", and I replied, "My concern [is] mainly the other sources and how this text is presented. Most anatomists/experts would state that there is no such thing as vaginal teeth. Vaginal teeth also are not mentioned at Dermoid cyst. See talk page." And so I brought the matter here to the talk page. The IP's text stated "It is not possible for vagina to have teech, it is only a myth." The IP has a point; as I indicated, vaginal teeth are considered a myth by anatomists and other experts on the female anatomy (generally anyway). I get what the text in question is trying to relay, but I'm not comfortable basing it on what one doctor states (one who has probably never seen a case of it in person), and with the way it can be considered giving credence to the myth. I don't think that the condition in question is usually referred to as "vaginal teeth" or as "teeth." I'll alert WP:Med to this discussion. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:19, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Alerted. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The dermoid cyst does mention it can grow teeth, among other things, in various places, including the vagina.  D r e a m Focus  00:33, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I am aware of what a dermoid cyst is and what it can do. Where in the Dermoid cyst article is the vagina mentioned, and where is the text for it supported by a WP:MEDRS-compliant source? My concern is the poor sources used for the material in question and that we are calling the result of the condition "vaginal teeth" or "teeth." The current text does not have enough context about the possibility of these "teeth," like the fact that they are not exactly like teeth that exist in the mouth. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:28, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That article has a section for that. Dermoid_cyst and a picture next to it titled "Dermoid cyst in vaginal ultrasonography".  D r e a m Focus  12:03, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, but other than that picture, that section currently has nothing in it specifically about the vagina. And in the section you started below, an article uses the term vaginal dermoid instead of vaginal teeth. Again, I simply want the aforementioned content currently in the Vagina dentata article to have a better presentation; that includes making it clear just how rare the condition is. I suppose I'll get around to taking care of all of that, if no one else beats me to it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 13:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Something important to note here is that teratomas are usually encapsulated so even if they do contain teeth, they wouldn't be visible as such even at the introitus. Keilana (talk) 23:23, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

References and additional material for the article

 * How the mythical ‘toothed vagina’ helps explain India’s rape culture from the Washington Post mentions various stories in India, etc.
 * The British Journal of Medical Psychology published a bit about it.  D r e a m Focus  00:39, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * http://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/researchers-in-museums/2013/03/04/pulling-teeth-ovarian-teratomas-vagina-dentata/ The first picture is from the UCL Pathology Collections, and is teeth growing in an ovary.   D r e a m Focus  00:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The "How the mythical ‘toothed vagina’ helps explain India’s rape culture" article is part of the reason I removed the "vaginal teeth" material that is noted in the section above. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:29, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The "Vagina with teeth -- and other sexual myths" NBC News article is also part of the reason. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:35, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That article says "at least one real-life case has been documented. In 1989, The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology reported a benign embroid tumor containing teeth growing in the wall of a woman's vagina."  D r e a m Focus  04:19, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * http://www.indmedica.com/journals.php?journalid=12&issueid=111&articleid=1515&action=article shows pictures of this and says "Vaginal dermoid is a rare condition. Only five cases have been reported in English literature. First observed in 1899 by Stokes (9),"  D r e a m Focus  12:05, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the pictures clearly show an encapsulated mass that looks like a tumor, regardless of what's inside. Besides, I can't find anything in the medical literature that says a dermoid cyst rupturing near the ovary could lead to teeth coming out of the vagina. Saying that "teeth can grow in the vagina" is also quite misleading, because what's really growing in the vagina is a tumor that happens to contain teeth. Keilana (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've found a review of dermoid cysts in the vagina and replaced some of this text & sources with more MEDRS compliant sources and more accurate phrasing. Keilana (talk) 16:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Keilana. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:28, 30 October 2015 (UTC)


 * This, this and this is exactly the type of editing I wanted. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:32, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Popular culture
Why is there no mention of the movie Teeth (film) in this article? Vagina dentata is the main basis for the plot of the movie. Boomer VialHolla 13:53, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Psychology
This section sounds odd without any sort of counter argument. As is currently stands, it seems to be stating outright that promiscuous men have smaller penises or that they are otherwise less manly, which is an incredibly bold claim with no evidence. I'm not sure how best to approach this though, as I'm fairly new to Wikipedia. Chronque (talk) 08:16, 18 July 2024 (UTC)