Talk:Valet de chambre

Untitled
I have added this new page, separate from Valet. If somebody really feels they should be merged, do so. I really felt like that article was more concerned with the modern use of the term and its appropriation into English, instead of the use that it has, especially amongst artists in the Burgendian court, in historical court culture. In this sense it is not a "male servant"-type position, but a newly established court title. --Stomme (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Anne
Notwithstanding the reference, was Anne de Montmorency acting as secretary whilst a varlet? He was later promoted to other roles, including Grand Master of France?

"At the most prestigious level it could be akin to a monarch or ruler's personal secretary, as was the case of Anne de Montmorency at the court of Francis I of France.[1]" Johnbod (talk) 15:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Admittedly, the referenced source is a bit old-fashioned, and probably not the most authoritative answer on the subject, but it was the best I could dig up with the limited resources I had. Keep in mind, the Burlington pages cited are an early attempt to define "Valet de chambre" in an art historical manner (1912). Having said that, it is essentially two letters: a response to a book review by the book's author and an answer from the reviewer. The author uses the example of Anne de Montmorency to stress the high level that might be meant by "valet de chambre" within courtly society, while the answer writer-reviewer refers to the same example to argue the fluidity that the term could hold—doubting that Anne de Montmorency and a painter accepted the position on equal terms. I'm sure there are some better descriptions available, written with modern academic rigidity, but it helped me get something in place. At which point I want to thank you for your additions (you seem much more comfortable wandering around the halls of nobility and reporting your findings here than I do)... --Stomme (talk) 16:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, about the reference to "personal secretary"—there might be a bit of extrapolation in there that got carried over from what I was trying to get out of the information that already existed on valet and vague comments read in various biographies (I plead lazy research on that one). --Stomme (talk) 16:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks - there are the two valet/secretaries to Queens, so I suppose it's ok. I had already done Alexandre Bontemps, & improving WP coverage of the workings of courts (rather than long lists of holders of ceremonial titles like Lord of the Bedchamber) is one of my aims, so this is a welcome addition. I will put this up for DYK, if that's ok. Johnbod (talk) 18:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)