Talk:Video game console/Archive 2

PSN Video Support
Now PSN offers users to rent or purchase full length movies or TV shows in either SD or HD. This should be mentioned as Microsoft's similar feature is mentioned in the Xbox 360's section of this article. thanks, ryan (not signed in sry) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.88.143 (talk) 00:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

To the Fullest
The phrase "It also has a maximum graphics output of 480p, the only seventh generation not utilizing High Definition to the fullest" implies that 480p is some variation of HD. As 480 verticle lines of resolution is the definition of standard definition, "to the fullest" must be removed. If you are confused as to what HD is, please read up on the subject, because it is not an issue of interlacing. -Generalklagg

Genesis?
Shouldn't it be "Mega Drive (known in the US as Genesis)" rather than the other way around considering Megadrive is the original name and the more widespread of the names. Liam Markham 21:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

fourth and fifth generations
i'm a bit lost... are we saying here that the snes and genesis were basically 4th gen, but thanks to chips in their games they got upgraded to be fifth gen? maybe there should be some shuffling/clarification? 01:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC) (thejakeman, who's to lazy to login.)

Talk Archives
Talk:Video_game_console/Archive 1 July 2003 - July 2006

I think the CD-i should be referenced in this subject, as it was a game console that was comparable to the 3DO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-i —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.150.221.110 (talk) 02:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Article Rewrite
I recently came across Video game console, and thought it could do with a major cleanup. I felt it was a high-priority article and didn't stand up against some of CVG's better articles. I started making some edits in my page, User:Revlob/Video_game_console, but when it started to become a total article rewrite I thought it best to be bold and work on the main article itself. I have archived the past discussion on this article, much of it has been inactive for many months. --Revlob 10:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Introduction
I have replaced the opening few paragraphs in the introduction, I felt some of them were unnecessary to establish context or to provide summary. The picture I've added is a collage of various promotional pics, and to avoid favouritism I've tried to cover a range of consoles. The other main reason behind my console choice was I felt these ones were the most distinguishable. --Revlob 11:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

History
I didn't think we needed to spend too long on particular consoles, as that is very well covered by the History of video game consoles article itself. In my rewrite I'm trying to be a bit more concise. --Revlob 11:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Intellivision
The chart that shows the Intellivision is incorrect. It shows support for the Intellivision ending in 1984. However, this is incorrect. Mattel Electronics closed its doors, but INTV Corp purchased the rights and continued producing the console and games until 1991. Jbanes 17:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected the chart. Please see the Intellivision page for more information on the timeline of the console. Jbanes 17:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Ambiguity of the term
I deleted this: "The concept of what a console is has evolved over successive generations of hardware, and the lines between consoles and other types of computers has blurred in some areas. Since the Sony PlayStation arrived with the ability to play music CDs, latter-generation consoles have expanded on their original functionality as simple game machines to allow users to engage in a much broader range of activities. With examples such as DVD playback[1], digital image viewing[2], and web browsing[3], modern consoles are no longer dedicated to solely playing games."

And restored the Ambiguity of the Term section. The premise of that paragraph is false. It makes sound as if there's a steady progression with consoles getting more and more features in each generation. That's not true at all. Some early 80's consoles could be converted into a full blown computer. It also seems sort of NPOV in the way it glosses over things like the Flashback II, which is a dedicated gaming machine. Just because it's cheap and the media doesn't say it's next gen, doesn't change the fact that it's next gen.Altarbo 13:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. It did sound a bit like I was making out all consoles were heading in a single direction. I've tried to expand and wikify the original section instead. Could do with a bit more work though, I'm not sure there's a logical flow from premise to conclusion. A reference or two would be nice, perhaps an image of a scanned retro-era advert or something? --Revlob 14:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried to rewrite it so that it had a better flow. As far as sources, I'll add some links to game manuals, magazines, catalogs, etc.  Also, feel free to rewrite as much of the article as you want.  It needs it.  A lot of the stuff that was originally in the article was confusing, unecessary, or wrong.  I started writing alot of the history stuff, just trying to add content to the article.Altarbo 13:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the term console, "It refers to a specific part of the video game system." What specific part? Either specify or remove.213.112.249.123 12:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Completely Changed History Section
The History of Video Game Consoles on Wikipedia is divided into seven generations. I changed the way the history section is organized. It now follows the seven generation format, with the two crashes. It focuses on the social apects (ie. how people reacted to the consoles, what they thought of them, how they used them, etc.) as opposed the technology behind the consoles.

I'm not too familiar with the video game industry on other continents though. If anyone from South America, Europe, or Asia reads this, it would helpful if you could add some information to the article regarding the video game industry where you're from or answer some of the following questions:

1. Do other nations/continents follow the same seven generation pattern?

2. If not, could you explain how they differ. In particular: 1. What parts of the world did the two crashes effect? 2. How did the transition from NES to SNES happen in places where the Genesis wasn't popular? 3. In Brazil and Asia did the Atari 2600 market continue with pirate 2600 clones after Atari officially stopped producing them?66.190.220.176 21:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

this is a very bad article
Owwmykneecap 17:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, fix it from this piece of crap

America or World?
Is this article just for the USA market or world? Jt_200075 16:02, November 20 2006 (UTC)

Definition
The definition, "A video game console is an interactive entertainment computer. The term is used to distinguish a machine designed for consumers to buy and use solely for playing video games from a personal computer, which has many other functions, or arcade games, which are designed for businesses that buy and then charge others to play."

Are Alienware PCs, which are manufactured for the purpose of playing games video game consoles? Are Wiis or Xbox 360s, both of which have sizable functions other than playing games? --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 05:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting point. It should probably be changed to something to do with its Primary function being to play games. Mattyatty 17:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * So then, Alienware PCs are game consoles? --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 21:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If we go with a definition using the term "Primary function" then probably not. Despite them being made with gaming in mind, there primary function is still as a PC. It all depends on the interpritation, and something incorpirating "primary function" has got to be better than the "soely" definition, which is totaly wrong now with the Wii and other current gen consoles extra functionality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mattyatty (talk • contribs) 19:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

First computer games?
From the article: Although the first computer games appeared in the 50s... From Personal computer game (Caption): Spacewar!, developed for the PDP-1 in 1961, is often credited as being the first ever computer game.

Could someone check this out? 67.168.30.123 08:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There were computer implementations of games such as tic-tac-toe in the 1950s, but Spacewar was closer to what computer/video games are thought to be like today (real-time action with graphics, etc). --Viznut 14:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"Raster display device"
I suggest that the use of the word "raster" in the article lead is prima facie incorrect, given the existence of the Vectrex. I'd like to propose that it be omitted. If we have occasion to discuss the court case that promulgated that definition, by all means mention it there. But to use a court's narrowly-targeted opinion to describe something incorrectly in an article lead is, in my opinion, a big mistake.

Thoughts? Nandesuka 20:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I want to come to a resolution to this that we're both happy with and am willing to work with you on this. It might be possible to leave "raster" out of the first sentence (stating just video display) and then structure a second sentence that lists both the correct useage (legal definition) and popular one you're refering to.  You can't completely leave raster out of the intro however, as being an encyclopedia it becomes missleading to promote the popular useage over the defined useage.  That was the established definition, since the original patent's inception and throughout all subsequent court cases starting in the early 1970's.  It was the "popular" definition that broke standard at a later date (thanks in large to marketing and the media) and is the incorrect description.  Bowing that it is the popular definition, I'm happy to work something in that satisfies both.  Regarding your statement on the Vectrex (and this also covers other vector display games) - they have no video signal - they directly manipulate the beam instead.  This was always the issue in the legal and definition sense.  Is it a game console?  Certainly.  Is it a video game console by the strict definition of what  video is?  No.  It would be more accurate to state it is a Vector Game Console.  --Marty Goldberg 21:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

This seems like a good topic for an article RFC to get more opinions. Mind if I post one? Nandesuka 21:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, go ahead. Looking it over, how it sounds now (leaving out the raster) isn't that bad - I just added one word though (formats) to more accurately imply raster vs. vector etc.  But we should still get a general consensus through an RFC or at least other expert opinions (which I think are more important) for archival purposes in case this pops up again.  :) --Marty Goldberg 21:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

abridged timeline of video game consoles in europe
I think its safe to say the UK falls under "Europe"...yet it appears the first console we got was the megadrive? PURE RUBBISH! come on, we had the nes and the master system and god knows what else. FIX IT.

Dates to add to timeline
I'm composing a list of dates to add to the video game console timeline. The list that I currently have is below. If you think any of these aren't significant enough, have more additions, or see an error please post.

A few of the dates have sources listed below them. For all other dates I used other Wikipedia entries and old-computers.com.Altarbo 23:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Japan

Atari 2800 (2600) Spring, 1983 - 1984, 1986 - 1992 http://www.freelancer-games.com/MP/A2800.htm

Odyssey 2 1982-1983

Intellivision 1982-1991

Europe

NES 1986 - 1992

Colecovision 1982-1984 http://www.classicgaming.com/museum/colecovision/

Sega Master System 1987- 1996

Atari 2600 1980-1992

Emerson Arcadia 1982-1983

Odyssey 2 1978-1983

Intellivision 1982-1991

North America

RCA Studio II 1977-1979

Fairchild Channel F (VES) 1976-1979 under Fairchild, 1979-1984 as Zircon.--Marty Goldberg 22:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Atari 2600 1977-1992. The system was continuously manufactured and sold in different formats during this time period.--Marty Goldberg 22:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Etymology
The current "Use of the term" section is inaccurate. The sources contradict the material in the article.

The article states: "The first company to use the term "console" to officially refer to its video game system was Fairchild with the Video Entertainment System (VES) in 1976."

The source given is the VES manual. It begins: "You have purchased the finest video game system . . . "

The first mention of the VES console is in a list of parts that should be in the box: " . . . the various components that are included with the System. They are "called out" in the photos below.  Game Console "

I wrote the material that evolved into this section as an attempt to explain the etymology of the term, and why it had different uses. Game console originally was considered to be only a part of the complete system. There are many instances of cartridge-based consoles that can host a new, more powerful system (Starpath Supercharger, Sega 32x/cd, Famicom disk drive), play games that have hardware for purposes other than information storage (Pitfall! II, SNES Doom, Zelda, 2600 DigDug), and there are systems that have no processing components inside the console unit (Hanimex, Telstar Arcade) and store everything in the cartridge.

Coleco was the earliest company to use "console" in a manner closer to its modern usage. Coleco's business model did not center around selling a complete game system. They sold the Colecovision console unit alongside modules that turned the console into any type of game system the consumer wanted, going so far as to sell a VCS module that turned the Colecovision into a Video Computer game System.

In the later 80's as personal computer games grew in popularity, the terms "console gaming" and "pc gaming" came into use to describe games played through a game console or a personal computer (pc) respectively. Over time game console became synonymous with game system. This is where the modern usage of "game console" stems.

It replaced the original term in the 90's in large part due to the Sony Playstation. The Playstation was officially referred to as a "game console" and it used optical discs. Optical discs cannot expand the functionality of the console unit the way that cartridges can. There were consoles prior to the Playstation that used optical media (such as the 3DO) however they had other ways to extend the system (the 3DO had 2 ports for this purpose and was designed with expandability in mind). Sony's approach put a much greater emphasis on the console unit than in previous game systems.

I thought a section on the etymology would be relevant, because many of these terms overlap in confusing ways. The Gameboy Advance and Vectrex are clearly game consoles, but atypical as video game systems. The Telstar Arcade and home PONG are clearly video game systems, but atypical as game consoles. The Colecovision is clearly a game console, but can be turned into many different video game systems as well as a personal computer.Altarbo 06:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Again, that's simply just not correct. As clearly stated, the first manufacturer in the industry to refer to its unit as a console was Fairchild.  No contradiction, in fact the two examples you cite actually illustrate the point.  They refer to their unit as a game console, plain and simple.  The material you're seeking to add, and discussing above is full of WP:OR.  Can you provide actual references to Coleco's business model to the Colecovision?  Internal documents of some sort?  Can you provide a credible source that puts forth your ideas on what constitutes a "complete console" vs. "many systems" and furthermore how that relates to distinctions of "console term useage"?  How about PONG being a video game system but not a "console"?  These are things that are all putting forth your personal interpretation and ideas, but that's not what Wikipedia is for or how it works, these entries are not your personal research paper.  You don't put forth your own ideas or opinions as fact, unless you can find resources that specifically state those same ideas.  I.E. a resource (or resources) that specifically discuss the etymology of the term and draw the same conclusions you're trying to put in to this entry.  Putting in references that have elements that you want to use to tie together your opinion is still original research as well.  And just a small correction - the Colecovision could not also "turn in to a computer", the Adam expansion version (vs. the inclusive one) simply used the Colecovision's video signal output.  You weren't turning the Colecovision in to anything else, that's just an illusion.  --Marty Goldberg 07:17, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

''Again, that's simply just not correct. As clearly stated, the first manufacturer in the industry to refer to its unit as a console was Fairchild. No contradiction, in fact the two examples you cite actually illustrate the point. They refer to their unit as a game console, plain and simple.'' I'm not saying that Fairchild didn't sell a game console. What I thought was relevant to the article was how the usage has changed. In 1977, people would buy a "video game system" and plug cartridges into the "console unit". Today, the console unit plays a greater role. People buy a "game console" along with games, accessories, controllers; and they still insert discs into the "console unit".

Those parts individually, I could provide sources for. You also asked: Can you provide a credible source that puts forth your ideas on what constitutes a "complete console" vs. "many systems" and furthermore how that relates to distinctions of "console term useage"?

This I'm not sure about. I could find sources that talk about game consoles from different periods. This could be a source for the fact that the definition has expanded. I could find a source for Game Consoles being shipped with less and less extras. I probably couldn't find a source to correlate the two, though.

After reading your comments and WP:OR, I think the main violations in what I wrote before were trying to attribute the changing definition to something. If I just stated that the use of the term "console" had expanded and not tried to explain why, it would be verifiable and legit.

Below is something I think is acceptable: The "video" in "video game console" traditionally refers to a raster display device. However, with the popular use of the term "video game" the term now implies all display types and formats.

The earliest use of the phrase "video game console" is in respect to the console unit specifically, and not the system as a whole. Many early video game consoles were referred to as "video game systems" by their manufacturers and the contemporary press. The modern definition has widened; the term is now used in place of video game system, as well as to describe handheld game consoles, TV games, and multimedia devices. This can sometimes lead to confusion, because machines that were not considered to be video game consoles or video game systems during their original production run, such as the Vectrex, now fall under the modern definition.

Altarbo 12:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

TURBOGRAFX-16 AND TURBO DUO ABRIDGED
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/d8caf14a7cb01d2477dc81cc107f1631.png

TURBOGRAFX-16 AND TURBODUO ARE SEPERATED BY 1 PIXEL SUGGESTING THE 2 NEVER RAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. SO no NEW GAMES CAME OUT FOR THE TURBOGRAFX-16 SINCE THE TURBO DUO STARTED RELEASING SOFTWARE, THUS BEING ALIVE? OR IS THAT JUDGED BY CONSOLES STILL BEING MANUFACTURED? OR BOTH? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.17.249 (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

WRONG VIDEOGAME TIMELINE
FAIRCHILD WAS RELEASED IN AUGUST 1976 AND AFTER THE VIDEOGAME CRASH OF 1977 WHEN EVERYONE WAS GETTING THEIR ASS KICKED BY ATARI 'THREW IN THE TOWEL' AS IT SAYS ON ITS MAIN PAGE AND LASTED TIL 1978 ACCORDING TO THE GENERATION 2 CONSOLE PAGE. WELL I DID A COMPARISON OF HOW LONG THE CONSOLES IN AMERICA LASTED BY LINING UP ALL THE 'BARS' UP REPRESENTING THE CONSOLES LIFESPAN AND MEASURED THEIR PIXELS UP AND THE ONLY 3 SYSTEMS THAT LASTED LONGER THAN FAIRCHILDCHANNELF WAS MATTELINTELLIVSION AND NINTENDOENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM. FAIRCHILDCHANNELF LASTED LONGER THAN SEGAGENESIS SUPERENTERTAINMENTSYSTEM AND SONYPLAYSTATION? I TRIED TO CORRECT IT BUT JUST GET SOME TEXT CODE AND IM COMPUTER ILLITERATE SO I GUESS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY IS HOW DO I EDIT IT SO I CAN MAKE IT MORE ACCURATE? YOU CAN TELL ME HOW TO DO IT BUT IF YOU DONT I DONT REALLY GIVE A FUCK. JUST MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES SO WE CAN CLEAN UP WIKIPEDIAS DIRTY REPUTATION FOR HAVING WRONG INFORMATION —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.17.249 (talk) 05:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Xbox in Generation 7?
I've been thinking about this for a little while, and I'd like to propose that the original Xbox belongs in Generation 7 and not Generation 6, based on the following features:
 * Integrated storage, no requirement to buy memory cards
 * Integrated (broadband) network connectivity, not a plug-in widget to provide it
 * Online service to assist in the hosting of multiplayer games
 * Online game-purchasing/download service
 * HD video quality support at HD resolutions greater than 480p

These features are all shared by the Xbox, Xbox 360, Wii, and the Playstation 3. However, the Dreamcast, Playstation 2 and Gamecube have none of these features.

It seems to me that the generations are probably much-better assigned by featureset as opposed to by date, since the dates for many of the generations already defined overlap in a seemingly arbitrary fashion.

Blakeyrat 18:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Famikon
Famikon? --Abdull (talk) 08:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Screenshots16to32.PNG
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

"Generational" timelines
The seven-generation division, as explored most thoroughly in this article but referenced by other articles on Wikipedia, appears to be original research. The terms "next-gen," "current-gen," and "last-gen" are frequently used by the gaming press, but for some consoles (particularly older ones) it's never been clearly defined where the generational divides are, as far as I can tell. Can we provide a reliable source that divides video consoles by "generations" - preferably a source that predates this article? - Chardish (talk) 19:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Tetris pocket console
What is the official name of that game console http://www.netzmesse.de/b/210/nm2127840.jpg and is there any articles about it in Wikipedia? And who was the first inventer and producer of that console: Nintendo, Atari, Sony or other? --Moscvitch (talk) 17:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Completely wrong information
Undedr 5th generation, this is written "Unlike the other companies' consoles of the generation, the N64 had continued to use ROM cartridges, which many saw as a hindrance to gameplay, as cartridges have much less memory space and are also more expensive than optical media; however, Nintendo's answer to this was that unlike CDs, cartridges cannot be damaged by a simple scratch to the surface, nor are load times much of an issue."

In particular, "Cartridges have much less memory space"?? Even if they only had 1MB of memory space, it would still be more than a CD. You cannot save your games or write back to a CD because it is optical, cumbersome, read only media. However, this may have been intended to read "more storage capacity for the actual video game", which is true, because the largest game you could fit on a cartridge is about 64MB. If we were comparing two ROMS together, we could argue which one has more memory. If we were comparing two hard drives together, we would say which one has more space. If you compare a ROM to a CD, you simply would explain one has a larger total capacity of data storage.

April 19, 2008 24.3.246.76 (talk) 13:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

indy consoles
first off, let me apologizes if I'm breaking any wiki conventions. I'm a bit of a newb. I don't see any of those odd backwater consoles in here. are we intentionally keeping the gizmondo and gp32 out? can I add them? Please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.161.63 (talk) 02:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The Gizmondo and GP32 are handheld game consoles, so they are listed in the Handheld game console article. --Silver Edge (talk) 05:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

WHICH ONE IS BETTER
WHICH ONE IS BETTER A X BOX 3 360 ELITE OR A PS3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.249.99 (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:ET2600-TheBestPart.png
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8th Generation
I have heard there have been comments from Microsoft (not sure about the others) about their next console which would then fall into the 8th Generation i assume? I think if someone were to find links to this and as long as its verifiable and not speculative that an "8th Generation" section should be added. Aequitas12345 —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:54, 5 January 2009 (UTC).