Talk:Volkswagen Group/Archives/2018

State ownership
The state of Lower Saxony, as correctly reported by the article, owns 12.7% of shares and 20% of voting rights, so it is correct to categorize VW as a state-owned company.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not think so. At Category:Government-owned companies there is no definition, at State-owned enterprise there is "legal entity that undertakes commercial activities on behalf of the state, its owner". Ownership of 12.7% shares/20% voting rights does not meet this criteria (+there is 30.8%/52.2% Porsche Automobil Holding, so this categorization in misleading.--Jklamo (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If the state owns part of a company, it is categorized as state-owned. This is the most logical definition, and the one used by organizations such as OECD.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:01, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Any source for "most logical definition" or OECD marking Volkswagen as state-owned? I am going to revert that changes unless you provide sources.--Jklamo (talk) 18:04, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sources have been provided in Talk:Deutsche Telekom. The state-owned enterprises article contains many inaccuracies and you shouldn't rely on in for definitions.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 01:42, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

VW Scirocco image replacement
Hi, I recently made an edit on this article, only to be reverted by, and now discussing it as per WP:BRD. Knowing how I am a stickler for high quality image, I wanted to get an input from others to see which of the three are the better examples. Although I would like to photograph the VW Scirocco, it is a very rare car in Australia as these sold horribly down under. My examples to replace Vauxford's one. I'll also identify the faults below.

I am more than happy to have input from other users, but I would like input from users, such as &. If anyone can spy any better examples, please do not hesitate to add it here. The more examples, we get, it makes life easier for us to identify. Please see which of the three are the better choices. Thankyou -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 02:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * All 3 are as equally good ... I'm not seeing any valid reason to change from one great image to another, Leave as is. – Davey 2010 Talk 02:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No problems,, but please explain to me why the white one is a "great image"? You may be leaning to bias :). But anyway, sure, but we will get 's input :) -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 02:55, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not my job to explain that, You want it changed so you explain to me why the image should be replaced,
 * As for "You may be leaning to bias" - That's complete and utter bollocks and you know it!, It doesn't bother me whether a vehicle was photographed in the UK, Germany or even Africa .... if the image is better than the one it's replacing then I'm all for replacing that image ... Like I said in this case all 3 are equally good and so I'm seeing no reason to change the image at this time. – Davey 2010 Talk 03:19, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * You invite comparison of these three.  I would need longer than I have to think about it.   But at first blush:
 * * The white car on the left is at the best angle, but has white car problems.  Much of the car itself is overexposed so you lose any sense of the panels shapes etc.   Messy background, but ... there are plenty worse.
 * * The red car is would have been better if the photographer had not gone for the worm's eye view.  Strong colour, and maybe if he'd stood a bit higher the reflections  would have been less "in your face".   But if your concern is with reflections, there are plenty worse.
 * * The white car on the right is probably the best compromise.  Angle ok and the fellow understands about adjusting his camera settings to allow for the lighting conditions he has encountered (or he got lucky with his automatic settings).   Not entirely convinced about the interface between the roof and the trees behind, but that is less of an "in your face" issue.   And yes, in this light, unless you have very upmarket equipment indeed and - even more challenging - figure out how to use it , you have to choose between overexposing the car and underexposing the wheels.     But I think the fellow made the right choices here.
 * * Davey may (or may not) have wonderful judgement, but he would be more helpful to us lesser mortals (and others) if he would be less coy about taking the trouble to spell out why he thinks what he thinks.
 * * I would hope there is a better picture of this car somewhere in wiki-commons.  You should probably look around before inviting comparisons between these three, none of which is "that good" (but none is terrible according to my first impressions - especially where - as here - used for a small picture).   It's an eye-catching car.   The stylist has done a lot of thinking and "been bold".   It deserves a good picture.  It deserves a lot of good pictures.    Maybe someone with more time could take a longer look.   My brain won't be in gear till after breakfast and then ... stuff.
 * * Happy days. Charles01 (talk) 06:43, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Cool, so what is the final decision, the white car on the right or we keep 's example? So basically thats 2 votes for M 93s image and 1 vote for Vauxford's image. We will not confirm till Vauxford has his say. Also Vauxford, I won't be tending gain, and besides its not really any of your business on how I picture cars. I can picture cars the same way as you, or even Charles01. No one cares, anymore, its just a bleeding image. So, what is the final verdict. Enjoy your breakfast and come back to us, and also please utilize the example that was chosen. Cheers -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 08:44, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I've used M 93's example based on this discussion. I am more than happy for anyone to override the edit if they wish, however for this section we should use this. Please take care, and lets not revert till we finish this discussion. Take care :) -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 08:57, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * MY judgement is generally sound although sure like everyone else on here I do make the occasional mistake, Anyway back on topic he first image is fine, The red one seems too dark at the front and the last one the wheels are extremely dark. – Davey 2010 Talk 12:34, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The vote is finalised, but if you want to revert it, be my guest. But I think the dark wheels are not such a big deal to be brutally honest -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 12:35, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * made a revert, but again theres no point bothering anymore. Whoever can find the best example, to replace Vauxford's model, feel free to replace. -- Eurovision Nim (talk to me)(see my edits) 14:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Why are you still implying I was the one who done the edit warring? and even the revert I did on here was at least 3. You on the other hand done much more then that on two other pages, why shove yet another essays down our throats when you don't know any better. Edit warrings such as here and here. --Vauxford (talk) 14:44, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Actually, this time I used WP:BRD. Thats actually an important policy. I am working to ensure we have the best quality images possible and this is the way. Stop trying to accuse me of stuff I do, because I don't intend to. Its not such a big deal anymore, seriously man, take a break would you. I'll get  to further elaborate, he'd have more experience with this policy and has been mentoring me. Ok, we will let this edit stay, but we have the right to replace. Okay, and also WP:BRD is not an essay, its an important reference to Wikipedia. I made no mention in my last edits about CARPIX, so you need to move on and let things go with the flow. Also if you wish for your image to stay, could you please recrop it, its extremely tight. This is not edit warring what I did in these two, it means constant editing like a tennis game. At least I didn't do as bad as some of my edits back in 2014-2015. Do not use past examples to accuse me as you know this time. If we look at this we can see that I have been reading these guidelines very carefully. You may have missed another guideline called Consensus. Thats an official policy we all must follow, and without this, everyone will be fighting over. Okay, lets get more users involved. Also when reverting, for image changes, leave an edit summary -- Eurovision Nim  (talk to me)(see my edits) 14:55, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * You're talking to me like I was born yesterday. What you did was edit warring, you reverted those pages a good 4 or 5 times and was conflicting with two other editors due to your lack of knowledge of a vehicle. End of. What I'm saying, stop acting like you're a know-it-all when you aren't any better then the rest of us. --Vauxford (talk) 15:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)