Talk:Wagon Train

Untitled
The cast and crew's penchant for drunken debauchery was later immortalized in the colloquialism "pulling a train," referring to a woman having sexual intercourse with a continuous string of male partners.

Er, is there a citation for this? (I sure hope so...it's funny as hell!) RMc 21:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed a nasty slur on the characters of a great family TV show. There was never any citation for it and I think it was just something made up by a nasty person. (88.3.234.212 13:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC))

How and where can Wagon Train be watched?
The reason I looked up Wagon Train was because a couple of episodes of the program were on some old sampler DVD's. What would be helpful in the Wikipedia article would be some ways in which one might watch. Eg what network (s) carry the program, or are there DVD sets of the series? I am an old Star Trek fan, and indeed, as the article here mentions there are a lot of similarities between the original Star Trek and the couple of stories I have seen of the Wagon Train series. Veronaiadsa (talk) 02:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

¶ Presently (2010 & 2011), old Wagon Train episodes (but evidently only the b&w 60 minute episodes) are being shown weekdays on Encore cable network. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

In response to the above question about finding this series it is shown on some local stations carrying the retro Television Network (RTN) on a digital subchannel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.191.20 (talk) 16:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It is on the CBS affiliate channel 5.3 weekends only in the Mobile Pennsacola area. I am looking for info on the episode featuring Farley Granger about a treaty with a "Lipon" (sp. ?) Indian Tribe. Granger was in the part of a US Calvary Lieutenant. Robert Horton starred. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.198.141.194 (talk) 13:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

An interesting fact is that John McIntire, who replaced Ward Bond in season 4 as "Mr. Chris Hale", also appeared (disguised by a heavy beard) as the guest star in season 2 as "Andrew Hale" -- a heroic character rescued in the desert who improves the lives of several of the travelers before revealing that he is also a wagon master, who mistakenly led his church-affiliated wagon train into an Indian ambush and then deserted them out of shame and guilt. When he returned as regular, also named Hale, there was no comment in the dramas connecting him in any way to the previous appearance. Sussmanbern (talk) 07:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, Chris Hale in one episode mentions that he had a brother who had been a preacher. I can't remember whether he referred to him as "Andrew," however. Racing Forward (talk) 10:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

¶ Presently (2016) a small cable channel, H&I (Heroes & Icons), shows the one-hour episodes every morning and the much wider known cable channel Starz Encore-Western shows the 90 minute episodes every afternoon. Sussmanbern (talk) 07:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Unsourced material
The following is unsourced information: I have now sourced this--gramorak (talk) 09:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC) ¶ The 'John Wayne' episode is the "Colter Craven Story' (Season 4 episode 9; broadcast Nov. 23, 1960), a flashback scene at the end, shows the aftermath of a battle with Seth Adams meeting his old friend "Sam", who turns out to be Gen. Grant, who is shortly joined by shadowy figures identified as other famous Union generals - supposedly John Wayne was on the horse as Gen. Sherman - but did not speak and is only a silhouette. Sussmanbern (talk) 07:27, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * John Ford directed an episode with John Wayne in the cast, but only Wayne's voice and shadow appeared.
 * I've seen the episode, now readily available, numerous times and Wayne did indeed speak, and when he initially shows up he's a bit more than merely a silhouette and it's quite obvious that he's John Wayne even though he's not seen clearly. He was identified as "Michael Morris" in the credits (just as he had been in Flashing Spikes) so I've always imagined people losing bets that first night that it was John Wayne because they couldn't prove it. Racing Forward (talk) 10:59, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

While this is interesting, we can't use it unless you provide a source. Also, none of this is really trivia, as trivia by its definition is "unimportant information" - it therefore shouldn't be in a trivia section but instead the information should be incorporated into the main article. - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 04:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The episode, "The Elizabeth McQueeny Story," broadcast October 28, 1959, starred Bette Davis as Elizabeth McQueeny, and served as a pilot for a series of McQueeny adventures in California.
 * Episodes of this series is credited among a list of television series for being included in past public film showings at the annual Mid atlantic nostalgia convention in Aberdeen, Maryland. Cast members such as Denny Miller have made guest appearances at the festival.
 * During a protest scene in The Simpsons, the character of Moe is seen holding up a sign stating: BRING BACK WAGON TRAIN.
 * In the film Stand By Me, one of the young characters remarks, "Wagon Train's a really cool show, but did you ever notice that they never get anywhere? They just keep on Wagon Train-ing."

¶ Apropos of nothing, I suspect that the pilot episode shown to network execs was the "Nils Stack Story", which was aired as season 1 episode 6 (Oct. 23, 1957). The use of stock film from old cowboy (and Civil War) movies was conspicuous, the Bill Hawkes character appears - but as a passenger not an employee, although Robert Horton is identified as "Flint" Ward Bond once addresses him as "Clint", as if he were unfamiliar with the character's name. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

¶ Evidently during the first several episodes, Bill Hawkes is a passenger, traveling with his wife, rather an employee; in The Major Adams Story it is made clear that Hawkes was Sergeant to the Major in the Union Army, and that Hawkes had a wife named Emily. For some of the first season episodes, Major Adams is getting around on crutches (but I do not recall this being explained) and later a cane. In the "Julie Gage Story", Adams calls attention to a wedding ring on his left hand but does not offer any information about his marriage; Hawkes is a passenger and we briefly see his wife; however, in The Major Adams Story, part 1, Adams explains that he is not married, it is his father's ring. Sussmanbern (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

¶ I honestly think that the "citation needed" comment appears too damn often in the article. In some places it is completely inappropriate because earlier in the sentence a source (usually an episode) was identified, in some places it is attached to a comment which is an observation of something fairly undeniable. Sussmanbern (talk) 07:32, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the bane of Wikipedia. Vandals love to obstruct and delete rather than putting their energy into something positive and helpful to enhance rather than detract. Racing Forward (talk) 11:04, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Title card
here’s where you can find the title card from the series,: http://images.google.cz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tvacres.com/images/west1_wagon_train.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tvacres.com/west_wagon_train.htm&usg=__Wn0CR-VbrKcm_jsNUjR--eG6Bz4=&h=136&w=200&sz=9&hl=cs&start=42&tbnid=WqvuMD4y7-RkTM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwagon%2Btrain%2Btitle%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dcs%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40

I don’t know about the legality of using it, which is why I have not inserted it into the main article --gramorak (talk) 10:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Format
This article says nothing about "Wagon Train's" format. Each episode was focused on a specific individual who was either in the wagon train or whom the train members encountered. Hence "The Story Of. . .," etc.

That should be made clear in the article -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zriter59 (talk • contribs) 05:36, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I added a Format section and description.MrNeutronSF (talk)

Original research
This article has an excess of original research as to when the events in the show "really happened," based on sleuthing by Wikipedia editors who do inferences from things mentioned in an episode. This creates the impression that the producers had some secret chronology which can be ferreted out by looking up things mentioned. It is more likely they ran any interesting story about wagon trains in the post-Civil War era up to the time wagon trains were replaced by railroads.The extended space and undue weight devoted to such chrono-sleuthing is not encyclopedic.. It would be better to stick to what books about TV, such as "50 years of the TV western" which say that it "took place in the 1870's." I recommend removing the original research.. Edison (talk) 01:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Have you had a look at The Queen pub article of the Eastenders programme that gives a run down on it's history as to be found in it's dialogue.76.170.88.72 (talk) 05:19, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Conestoga wagons
"The series used the cut-down, shortened wagons common to television series budgets, as opposed to the full-length oxen-drawn Conestoga wagons prominent in a forerunner of the show, the 1930 wagon train film The Big Trail, which features 27-year-old Ward Bond supporting 23-year-old John Wayne. Occasionally film clips from Hollywood movies, depicting a train of Conestogas, were edited into the episodes."

It would be useful, in the section mentioning Conestoga wagons, to note that wagon trains from Missouri to California generally did not include any Consestoga wagons at all []; Consestoga wagons were suitable for heavy cargo runs on well-established roads, between cities and large towns. The wagons used by the westward migrants were much smaller, typically 10-12 feet long rather than the Conestoga wagons at 20 feet and longer. By the time there were settlement and highways in west, able to support Conestoga traffic, the railroads had largely replaced the Conestogas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 19:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Continuing on format
Other popular and well known westerns of the time such as Rawhide and Gunsmoke have far less emphasis on religion, Christianity in particular. Two out of three episodes of Wagon Train seem more like a parable one might present at a church service. I am not criticising or condemning this but I am curious as to why if anyone can tell me. Euc (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That's definitely true. Historically, religion did seem to be a hallmark of many pioneers traveling west, and it's no wonder considering how hazardous the journeys were. Plus Ward Bond was supposed to have been vocally religious but I imagine that's only part of the story, especially since it continued apace as a theme of the show after Bond's early death. (He famously appears to have been in more great movies during the sound era than anyone else albeit always as a supporting player; perhaps his prayers were being consistently answered, at least until the aforementioned early demise.) Racing Forward (talk) 18:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I suggest some slight reorganization and dividing up the article by characters. Here the segment labeled with Wooster's name hardly has anything about him. Sussmanbern (talk) 21:05, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The article used to feature long, interesting sections for each of the main characters although some were listed in pairs for supporting characters until they were all summarily removed by someone for some reason after having been up for years. You could look them up on the "View history" tab at the top of the article by jumping back a few pages and easily restore them via cut and paste in about thirty seconds. They were extremely meticulously written by numerous contributors over a lengthy period of time and answered a lot of questions, also revealing that the producers seemed to be absolutely oblivious to the concept of continuity across time. At least one character has three sharply conflicting back-stories that would be absolutely impossible to apply to the same person. Racing Forward (talk) 18:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, please!!! There's *way* too little about the characters.  One of the things I came to the article to find out-- and did NOT find out-- is what the deal was with the character of Duke, why they brought him in, and especially why he left the show (both the character and the actor).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.53.201 (talk) 08:56, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. 💵Money💵emoji💵💸 20:31, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Deleted Guest Cast

 * It is unnecessary to copy the content to the talk page in order to "archive" it. Wikipedia saves every edit, so just link to the edit with some notes, i.e.  or use  which gives you this: .  I've collapsed this list to avoid clutter, but I'd ask that you  remove it yourself, else we're left with the footnotes from the content.  I have restored the article to a state prior to removing the list as including a list of guest stars in a television article is neither WP:FANCRUFT nor WP:UNDUE.  It's MOS:TVCAST.  If the list becomes (too) long, as it may be in this case, it may warrant a separate list article, but that isn't necessarily a requirement.  Leaving it in place, however, is longstanding consensus; and reverting its removal, if objected to, would put us back to WP:STATUSQUO while a new consensus is reached per WP:BRD.    Butler Blog   (talk) 12:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I would add that the guest cast list could definitely use some copy editing to remove non-encyclopedic content. The list itself is fine for inclusion, but things like "so-and-so is best known for..." is editorializing and generally not verifiable. Just stick to facts.   Butler Blog   (talk) 12:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, ButlerBlog! It wasn't my intention to remove this content to begin with and I couldn't be more happy to see it restored to the article. It has indeed been standing for years and been enhanced by many contributors. As I noted in an exchange when this deletion occurred yesterday, the guest stars are at the heart of what makes the series what it is and shouldn't be summarily deleted.  I heartily agree with your takes on WP:FANCRUFT and WP:UNDUE and appreciate your contribution regarding this. I'll go back through the list over time and meticulously remove any editorializing that I can find. Racing Forward (talk) 14:32, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

famous poet
In which episode were references made to Robert Browning 67.61.15.254 (talk) 18:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Guest stars
Peter Falk also guest starred but I don't have info on the name or number of the episode. Lspitzer41 (talk) 15:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)