Talk:Wales national football team

Recent results/fixtures
Can Wales' recent results and upcoming fixtures please be added to this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.43.69 (talk) 17:31, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Ireland/Northern Ireland
Err...I don't think Wales' largest win could have been against Norn Iron in 1888 - it only came into existence in 1920-something, and was called Ireland before that. Or maybe the year's wrong. - THE GREAT GAVINI  {T-C} 20:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The year is correct (and the score!) but the country should be Ireland (long before partition). But which flag should be used? Certainly not the one shown, nor the tricolor. The Irish flag in 1888 was probably the Cross of St Patrick (a diagonal cross). But I can't find an icon sized version on Wikipedia. See List_of_Irish_flags
 * -- Maelor 16:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

European Championships
Wales reached the quarter finals of the European Championships in 1976 - losing to Yugoslavia over two legs. In those days it was only the 4 semi finalists who went forward to a mini-tournament in one specific country.

Also, rugby is NOT the national sport of Wales, I take it the author is a south Walian, as rugby hardly registers on the sporting radar here in north Wales. --86.134.231.241 09:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)Eusebio


 * With respect, that bit about rugby "not registering on the sporting radar in North Wales" is utter bollocks. We North Walians may not have a vested interest in regional rugby, but club rugby is very big in places like Colwyn Bay, Llandudno, Ruthin and Llangefni, and most people will have some sort of liking for the national team. - PeeJay 19:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Those darn Flags
I see that you keep changing the players' clubs' flags back to English flags - they may well play in England but they are WELSH teams - as a supporter of Wrexham I am quite insulted to find an English flag next to their name. They play in the Football League (note: NOT the English League) for historical reasons - they are NOT English clubs they are WELSH clubs. If you were a football statistician of any note, you would know this to be the case. I'm afraid that threats of reporting for vandalism and insisitence that they are English clubs just shows your ignorance on the subject.

Those darn Flags ... more ...
If you insist that Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham are English clubs then you should consider changing this quote: "Cardiff are the only non-English side to have won any of the three major English competitions" from the Cardiff City entry - but that would make a mockery of your encyclopedia as everybody knows that Cardiff are not English!

flags
You're a Wrexham fan? Well then of course it will infuriate you. And the only way these clubs class as Welsh are that their grounds are in Wales. They play in the English leagues, and that's what the flag is intended for. Clubs like The New Saints would have a welsh flag because they play in the Welsh leagues. Cardiff and Swansea etc do not.

flags ... again
They are members of the Football Association of WALES - any disciplinary matters eg yellow or red cards (even when they occur in the Football League or FA Cup) are dealt with by the Football Association of WALES - the Red Dragon, the flag of WALES, flies above The Racecourse, The Liberty and Ninian Park. If you were to conduct a poll of the supporters of the three clubs I would be very, very surprised if you found anyone who thought they were English clubs. I stand by my previous claim that you would have to change the entry on Cardiff City if you insist on English flags for the clubs - it makes a mockery of Wikipedia. How do you describe FC Vaduz who play in the Swiss Leagues, AC San Marino who play in the Italian lower leagues or Derry City who play in the Irish Republic?

Flags
AC San Marino are definately an Italian team, regardless of the name. As are these clubs. The flag represents the league, not the country or FA.

RUBBISH
AC San Marino ar a San Marinese club according to the Wikipedia entry about them - you see, this is where I'm right regarding consistency within wikipedia ... You didn't answer the question as to which flag you would put next to FC Vaduz ... and what do you mean by "as are these clubs"? If the flags represent the league rather than the clubs perhaps it would be better to make that clear instead of antagonising Welsh football fans with the English flag next to what are so obviously WELSH clubs.

Scottish Common Sense
The Scottish squad list has Red Dragons next to Cardiff City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Scotland_national_football_team

The Scots obviously have a bit more common sense - and yes, it has been discussed by them too.

[cue: your rushing over to the page to change the flags]


 * It doesn't any more, someone had changed it to the English flag, and I've been suggesting to revert the flag back to the Welsh flag as it should be! Jonzi9 (talk) 18:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think it's been accepted that it should be the Welsh Dragon not the English flag - the debate was had over on the football project pages Blogdroed (talk) 21:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or recommended to anyone in the football project pages, but in my opinion the flags listed next to the club name should be that of the country of which the national association which the club is a member of respresents. In other words, Cardiff City would have a Welsh flag as members of the FAW, even though they play in the English system. In addition, The New Saints would also have a Welsh flag as members of the FAW, even though they are (now) located across the border in Oswestry. I can't find this suggestion listed on WikiProject Football's archives, would it be worth mentioning in the discussion pages there to (possibly) clear the matter up? Jonzi9 (talk) 23:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Best Supported Team?
I'm not sure how true it is that Wales were the best supported team during the Euro 2004 qualifiers - I think it's apocryphal - France have a larger capacity stadium and sold out all their home games too. Also, I think it's petty to tag on the business about rugby being the most popular sport in Wales ... seeing as how it's just not true. Rugby barely registers on the sporting radar in north Wales and only holds sway on the M4 corridor. Even then, Cardiff's football team (second division of England) still get far, far more spectators than the rugby team (Celtic league).


 * -- Blogdroed

Where can we solve the flag debate?
I am under the impression that it is one user's decisionto place English flags next to the WELSH clubs here. Scotland's entry have Dragins next to Cardiff City so why not the WELSH entry of all entries? I am astounded by the audacity of one person to try and imply that these clubs are English clubs (see history passim) - if the flag represents the league, then that should be made obvious.

Where can we take this argument to be settled once and for all?

Blogdroed 11:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

History
Should we not have some sort of history section to this article? Wales is the third oldest Football Association in the world and was formed initially as the Cambrian Football Association. What is the protocol here? Do I jump in and edit or make suggestions here?

Flags (again)
I too want an end to this constant bickering re:flags. Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham are Welsh clubs who happen play in the English league, so the flags should definately be Welsh. Just listen to what the other 89 league sides sing about us when they play us - they definatley consider us Welsh.

---

I agree, so who has the final say? I've not been here long enough to know the protocol involved Blogdroed 14:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree too. The clubs play in Wales, they are members of the FAW, and if any player transfers from say Wrexham to Chester they have to get international clearence. Definitely Welsh. - fchd 18:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement
Following a request by Blogdroed, here is a list of the the three things in this article which in my opinion require most improvement:
 * the imbalance between the prose and the series of lists which follows - Denmark is a well balanced example IMHO, compare with England which is far too listy. We football fans can get a bit carried away with stats, they can make articles daunting for the general reader.
 * The lead could do with expanding, think of it as the entire article summarised into two or three paragraphs.
 * There are lots of one sentence paragraphs, which break up the flow of the prose. For example Bobby Gould's tenure takes up four or five paragraphs when the material could be brought together to make one longer paragraph.

To go down the road towards making this a good or featured article, citations and references also need adding. Oldelpaso 20:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Have made a start to these improvements - hope the changes are going in the right direction! Blogdroed 13:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

1958 World Cup Squad
Ive added stub pages for squad members below. Can anyone add further details: 2. Stuart Williams (footballer) 3. Mel Hopkins 4. Derek Sullivan 8. Ron Hewitt 12. Ken Jones (footballer) 13. Graham Vearnecombe 14. Trevor Edwards 15. Colin Baker (Welsh footballer) 17. Ken Leek 19. Colin Webster 20. John Elsworthy 22. Tom Baker (footballer)

Straw Polls on "Association" being added to UK and Irish football articles: Wales
There is a straw poll at Talk:Football in Wales on whether the word "Association" should be added to Football in Wales. --Matt Lewis (talk) 17:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Welsh flags
Why have the Welsh flags been removed? FIFA recognizes England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland as independent countries, not as parts of the UK. Velo ciraptor  888  10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Where have they been removed from, and why do you assume that it is because someone is trying to impose their UK nationalism? – PeeJay 11:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The infobox. I am saying this since all other football team infoboxes have flags. Velo  ciraptor  888  11:50, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well they shouldn't all have flags at the top of the infobox. WP:MOSFLAG tells us that flags should not be used for decoration, which is exactly what is happening in every other national team's article. I would change them all myself, but I just don't have the time. – PeeJay 12:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Nickname:The Principality?
I found this source that seems to suggest the national team's nickname could also be the Principality. (I know that's what Wales is anyway but...) It's a very loose link and I don't hold much out on it but does anyone think that's another nickname for the side? The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 10:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Please sign your posts - or is this a windup ?. No - definitely not a nickname.Pwimageglow (talk) 10:27, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry my apologies I meant to sign that and I'm usually very good with it, In fact I think this is the 1st time I forgot to sign and left it. Back to the matter, I thought it wasn't but I just wanted some other input on this as I didn't have much for it either. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 10:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. "The Principality" is probably a nickname for the country, not the team. – PeeJay 14:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hooped socks
Anyone know how to do red & white hooped socks as per the new kit ?Pwimageglow (talk) 15:05, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Rob Earnshaw
Rob Earnshaw's club is Cardiff City. He left Nottingham Forrest and signed for Cardiff on 6 July 2011. The "Current squad" section includes Earnshaw. It has a column for the player's club. Noting a player's previous club there is of no benefit to readers. There may be a case to note players' clubs when the squad was announced, in addition to their current club, but as long as the section is entitled "Current squad" it should comprise current information. I have re-instated Earnshaw's current club in the current squad section. Daicaregos (talk) 09:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The section should be entitled 'Latest squad', since the squad disbands once games have been played. Therefore, we should keep Earnshaw's club as Nottingham Forest, as that is the club he was with when the squad was announced. – PeeJay 15:50, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nottingham Forest is not Earnshaw's club. Why would anyone want to be provided with incorrect information? As I say, there may be a case to note players' clubs when the squad was announced, in addition to their current club. However, the change you suggest to 'Latest squad' would not inform readers that the information is no longer accurate. Daicaregos (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it would, since it is noted at the top of that section that the squad is only for the games that were played at the end of May. After the second game, the squad disbanded. Stop making an issue where none existed before. – PeeJay 17:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Enough of the attitude please. It was not an issue previously because it was accurate. It is not accurate now. As for what is noted at the top of the section, it actually says "The Wales squad for their Nations Cup matches versus Scotland and Northern Ireland on 25 and 27 May 2011.[9] Craig Morgan, Andy Dorman, Jermaine Easter, Owain Tudur Jones and Adam Matthews were subsequently added to squad." It does not say that the table is only for the games that were played at the end of May. Daicaregos (talk) 19:07, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It quite clearly says "The Wales squad for their Nations Cup matches versus Scotland and Northern Ireland on 25 and 27 May 2011". Why would anyone assume that the squad was for any other games when it states so obviously that it is only for those two? – PeeJay 19:53, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It is neither clear nor obvious. That sentence is a non sequitur. It makes no reference to the table; or to anything for that matter. The intention of the table should be stated explicitly, so there is no possibility of ambiguity or misunderstanding. Daicaregos (talk) 07:47, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Now I know you're just being obtuse. Again, if the sentence states that this is the squad for those two games, why would you assume it was for any others? There really is no ambiguity here, only that which you've fabricated inside your own head. – PeeJay 11:12, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There really is no need to be rude. Read the sentence again. Since you changed it, it said: “The Wales squad for their Nations Cup matches against Scotland and Northern Ireland on 25 and 27 May 2011 was announced on 12 May 2011.[9] Craig Morgan, Andy Dorman, Jermaine Easter, Owain Tudur Jones and Adam Matthews were added to the squad after the original announcement.” It did not state that this is the squad for those two games, as you claim. It only said that the squad was announced. I have made amendments to the article to reflect this and to provide correct information. Daicaregos (talk) 12:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This is an old debate. Player details are only valid if linked to a reference ie the time the squad was announced for a particular match or tournament. Any change of player details since that reference (eg change of club) does not relate to that squad or reference, hence are unreferenced and unencyclopedic. Simple as. Pwimageglow (talk) 18:08, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking the trouble to explain. That, and your civility, is appreciated. Daicaregos (talk) 19:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Latest scores/matches
most nations have this, why Wales doesn't??2003:75:F66:C633:5591:AC9A:756E:44A7 (talk) 13:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:RECENT. Also, just because other pages have it doesn't mean Wales should. – PeeJay 14:12, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Squad numbers
I've started a discussion here regarding the addition of squad numbers to the "Current squad" section. Feel free to let us know what you think, assuming anyone gives a shit. – PeeJay 21:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Other Players with 50 or more caps
Hi, to reduce duplication, recentism and maintenance I suggest changing the article 'list of players with 25 or more caps' to 'list of players with 50 or more caps'. Then in this main Wales article, replace the 'other players with 50 or more caps' section with a link to the separate article/table. Any objections ? thanks.Pwimageglow (talk) 12:13, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That seems to make sense.Zebroski (talk) 14:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Players eligibility
It would be good if the article contained some info on what makes a (England-born) player eligible to play for Wales and how this question is decided. And there are probably some examples of players having switched from England to Wales or vice versa. Ivan Volodin (talk) 10:44, 2 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Why ? these are internationally established rules by the governing body FIFA not unique to English born players playing for Wales. Players born in many countries play for many other countries under the parent/grandparent rules or sometimes length of residency - France being one of the big beneficiaries of the rule. You would need to add an explanation to every international team, not just Wales. There are no examples (unless you go way back in history) of footballers switching between international teams because FIFA do not allow it. ps Wales are third-oldest national football association in the world. Zebroski (talk) 12:27, 2 July 2016 (UTC)


 * As pointed out, this is not a unique phenomenon to England and Wales but is a widely used practice around the world. As the qualifying criteria is determined by the parentage or residency of the actual players, this information is normally mentioned in the individual player articles e.g. Welsh grandparent/parent. Really no need for it to be included in this page. Kosack (talk) 13:19, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

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Away shorts colour
I don't know how to do it myself, but the away shorts need to be changed - they are the green with yellow stripes, not vice versa. 81.110.8.217 (talk) 10:16, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Recent edits by User:PeeJay
User:PeeJay has recently removed a match which took place within the last twelve months, with the justification that there is no point keeping it. After telling them that the manual of style says this is not correct procedure, they informed me that the manual of style is "wrong and unhelpful". Would anybody else be able to confirm if this is the case as to me it seems like a blatant removal of pertinent information. Vesuvio14 (talk) 21:05, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Without the group stage results, what pertinence is there to the round of 16 result? We are now in a new tournament cycle, with Wales’ World Cup group stage fixtures already in place. No need to keep any of the Euro 2020 results now. And with regard to the MOS, WP:IAR applies. – PeeJay 21:38, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * That’s all well and good but to a reader it could just seem that information is missing. Vesuvio14 (talk) 22:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Would it? What expectation would any reader have of looking at that section and saying to themselves, "hmmm, I'm pretty sure the Euro 2020 round of 16 was less than a year ago; why isn't it listed here?" The one-year limit is arbitrary and pretty unhelpful in many respects. – PeeJay 08:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I'd say keep the result there as it's within twelve months but as this is an issue for all of five days I don't think that it's massively worth the argument. Felixsv7 (talk) 08:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Agreed, Felixsv7, not much point in arguing about it for the sake of just a few days. Vesuvio14 (talk) 10:10, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did you add it back then? – PeeJay 10:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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