Talk:Warren Mears

Untitled
Wow, do some fans really believe his evilness was just added later? He's always shown signs of instability and loss of temper. I believe he was introduced in "I was made to love you," when his robot creation comes to town and attacks his girlfriend. Even then he seemed pretty unlikable and heartless. -- Wapcaplet

In 'I Was Made to Love You' I don't exactly think he was evil - I think it was Tara who pretty much explains how he's kind of pathetic. He couldn't find anyone to love him so he made someone, because deep down everyone wants to be loved. But then when he actually found someone, someone real, Katrina, he panicked and abandoned April. He probably could've dealt with it better but as the show progresses it's revealed that he's somewhat of an ass. --Lenkyliciousness 06:01, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

appearances
What, no list of appearances? &mdash;Tamfang 04:29, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Foreshadowing of death?
How exactly is Jonathan wearing the skin of a Nezzla demon prophetic of Warren's death? NP Chilla 13:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe the meaning of that particular sentence became distorted in a subsequent edit. In a previous version, such as this:  the plot to skin and not the wearing of the skin is meant to point out the use of poetic justice as described by the third-to-last and second-to-last sentences.  Quop 05:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've edited the article to the original meaning in the previous version. Quop 05:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Serial killer?
Is it right to call Warren a 'serial killer?' He's a villain, yes, and a sociopath who cares little for the well-being of others, but I don't think he counts as a 'serial killer' in any sense of the word.--MythicFox 11:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, he killed only two people that we know of (Katrina and Tara), and ironically intended to kill neither. The only person he tried to kill was Buffy, and he didn't do a very good job.


 * lol, didn't do a very good job.... I'm glad the serial killer reference was removed.
 * --DragonGuyver 22:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Mears vs. Meers
An editor has gone through and changed all instances of Mears to Meers. I've reverted those changes, but we may as well chat about it. The online script for "I Was Made to Love You" has Mears, the one for "Selfless" has Meers. IMDb has Meers. Any more info? --Nalvage 07:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why, wherefor or whatever, but I have always known him as Meers, since his first introduction. I'll check around... DBD 03:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

that would be me who changed it--it is meers everywhere but here. in fact, there are other common misspellings like spelling jonathan as jonathon or the fact that the fool for love script gave cecily the last name of adams, whereas in lies my parents told me, it was verified as underwood. the rule is generally to use the last one. otherwise, liam's death could be 1753, 1757 or 1783!!! however, 1753 is what appeared on all of the flashbacks and is what is written on his headstone. however, all three dates were stated canonically within both shows--2 of them by angel, himself. william also was given two dates of death. and for that matter--who was spike's sire. in all these cases, the last word becomes official.

however, i disagree with the page being reverted. it has a lot of problems and is heavily slanted against understanding warren's character arc in favor of a very superficial willow-apologist feminist view. warren wasn't a woman hater, and there is plenty of evidence to show that. what he hated was people who didn't respect him--whether it was the bullies from high school or buffy and friends' inabilities to see him as dangerous, to respect him through fear. it was the need for respect (fear is a form of respect) that drove every single one of his actions.

the worst thing willow ever did was say that warren deserved what he got. that is DENIAL. in fact, willow and warren had a lot in common. they were both abusive to their significant others (tara's mind rape) and tried to make their significant others love them by taking away their free will or knowledge of previous events. willow and warren were both hiding behind the need for power, to be respected--feared--and hiding from their similar nerdy pasts. the difference between warren and willow is that warren failed to kill who he went after, and his two murders were completely unintended (katrina and tara). willow's weren't unintended--she killed exactly whom she went after (warren and rack). --nileqt87


 * Interesting points, all around. I think this should be explored further. I honestly had never looked at it from this perspective, and I think thoughts along these lines should be featured in the article somewhere. I do think that Warren showed signs of misogyny, while he certainly attempted to dominate nearly any social encounter he was a part of, I think it manifested worst with women, perhaps from a view of them being weak, perhaps due to the fact that he was heterosexual and he clearly wanted to dominate them sexually and "romantically". But nileqt87's points further illuminate his character, and the view on Willow and contrasting Willow and Warren I think should be very welcome.
 * --DragonGuyver 22:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * "I do think that Warren showed signs of misogyny, while he certainly attempted to dominate nearly any social encounter he was a part of, I think it manifested worst with women, perhaps from a view of them being weak, perhaps due to the fact that he was heterosexual and he clearly wanted to dominate them sexually and "romantically"" I agree. He was always kind of an ass, especially to women, but he wasn't anywhere near as evil when he was first introduced as he ended up in season 6. Really, he seemed to be just very selfish, and his frequent bad romantic relationships (which were ironically made worse by his own selfishness) gave him more "reason" to be self-absorbed and domineering especially when it comes to women. Note that this still makes him an antagonist in the Buffyverse, which tends towards feminist ideals and to portray heroic self-sacrifice as noble (interesting book that discusses these extensively is Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosophy: Fear and Trembling in Sunnydale, edited by James B. South and published by Open Court), but let's put it this way: I still feel season six never had a real "Big Bad", and that was the season Warren was a main villain. :P (I still haven't read up further in Buffy Season 8, though, and I've heard there's further development there). I'm pretty sure Joss never wanted him to be sympathetic, though, given that Joss has repeatedly stated that ass-kicking women are "sexy", and is a noted feminist (again, interesting analyses of these motifs in the aforementioned Philosophy book). 4.238.11.31 16:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Season Eight
I cut this section: "In Part Three of the Season Eight story arc, "The Long Way Home", Warren is revealed to be the "boyfriend" that Amy Madison has been living with beneath the Hellmouth. He is still without skin and bears a considerable grudge against both Willow and Buffy."

as being non-canon.


 * season 8 is canon its written by joss and he said its canon User:Srstorey!


 * I agree completely with Srstorey. Even if it isn't canon, the fact that the section is prefaced by referencing the Season 8 comic nullifies the concern over removing it for being non-canon.
 * --DragonGuyver 22:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It occurs to me that we might add something about the fact that Warren must have been brought back from the dead somehow between season 7 and 8. I say this because The First took his form multiple times in season 7, particularly "Conversations with Dead People". We don't know the circumstances of this resurrection, though presumably Amy had something to do with it. Most pressing are the questions of when, where, and why... --72.224.217.89 22:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * sorry, I wasn't logged in... --DragonGuyver 22:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, true; granted the First can also take the form of vampires, apparently, and even Buffy who's only undead by technicality (she's not a vampire and she doesn't look like your typical zombie, in fact if I recall any decomposition was actually undone with the way Willow resurrected her, but I could be misremembering the "resurrection/waking up in her own coffin" thing's special effects), but he definitely at least "technically" died if the First can take his form, especially given that he was flayed alive. But "by whom" is certainly also a pressing question, as we can't be sure Amy really brought him back, we only know that they're "dating"; for all we know, the destruction of Sunnydale caused a weird rift thing that brought random people or creatures. I haven't read the third comic yet so I don't know even if Warren has any of his original personality. I can say this much, though, we have seen cases where people did not actively raise things from the dead, as in one of the early episodes (episode 2? 3?) from the third season has a mystical African mask that causes everything within a certain radius (dead cats, dead people, etc.) that died to become a zombie. "Where" is probably obvious - Sunnydale or else what's left of it - but we can't verify that yet. Runa27 19:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Warrenseason8.JPG
Image:Warrenseason8.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Fictional Rapist?
I'm not sure that Warren should be listed as a fictional rapist. I know he tried to rape his ex-girlfriend, but that plan never actually came to pass. If setting out to rape someone makes a person a rapist, then I think it's only fair that Spike and Faith be listed under "fictional rapists" as well.


 * Faith and Spike aren't really known for being rapists. Warren is defined by his desire to have power over people, woman in particular, so "fictional rapist" kind of sums him up even he didn't succeed in carrying it out.  It fits the tone of the character, if not the technicalities... what do other people think?     Paul    730  22:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)