Talk:Water polo/Archive 1

Untitled
Removed some obvious vandalism by 69.223.214.242 who is notorious for vandalism. 207.6.127.165 20:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.127.165 (talk) 20:46, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

--Jerbol 01:44, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC) I cleaned up the syntax a bit and deleted some sections that had been repeated verbatim. I also added a blurb about youth water polo in the US.

I know that American high school polo uses seven minute quarters with clock stoppage, and I think that college works the same way. I notice that the article says no clock stoppage, and I wonder of that is true in other parts of the world, or just a mistake.


 * yeah, I also thought that, for all levels, ordinaries mean a 3 second stop of the game & shot clock.

First Olympic Team Sport
I have read that Water Polo was the first team sport to be introduced to the modern Olympics. As I recall, I saw this in an old US Water Polo brochure. As such I'm hesitant to add this information directly since I cannot cite the source directly nor confirm its copyright status. Water Polo was thus played from the second Olympiad onwards!

USA Water Polo: "History of USA Water Polo in the Olympic Games"

Excellent Wikipedia article though, very clear and concise. Keep up the good work!

How this article can be excellent? I can`t see who is Wworld champion... --M. Pokrajac 21:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

added a tiny section on youth water polo, with which I'm heavily involved. --Zeizmic 17:50, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Waterpolo was the first team spot introduced nto the modern Olympics ! In canada we have 7 min quarters with stop time at nationals championships

Ryanjo 00:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC) See below under Conflict with Olympics page

Not to be confused with Marco Polo
are you kidding? AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:43, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think somebody was, yes --Khendon 13:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Fish out of water! Ralelen (talk) 16:06, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * When I was a kid I called it Marco Polo actually, but that was when I was like 5. 24.203.182.78 (talk) 18:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Curiosity - should it be mentioned?
Purely as a curiosity, the former Finnish Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen played the sport competitively. Is that a fact that should be mentioned? -- 10:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)Cimon avaro; on a pogostick.

Merge
Yes. The Ball handling skills article is in terrible condition on its own and doesn't need its own article. Problem is, i don't have the expertise to do it without likely chopping large blocks of the article to be merged for being "unnecessary" when they actually are. Maybe someone who knows more about the game could merge it? jfg284 21:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

well, i think that they should add information about the Ball hnadling skills, t h a n k s

The Ball handling skills page, as is, should be merged. I'm unfamiliar with sports pages, but it seems that we should do one of two things:
 * Merge and have ball handling skills sections about other sports included in their respective pages.
 * Keep the article separate and add sections to the Ball handling skills page for various other sports. Alberrosidus 03:11, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

'merge per jfg284 --K e rowyn 08:13, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Adding Clubs
I just added our club, Mavericks, and it seemed infinitely easier to add it to the top. :) I won't keep moving it there, though.  Eventually, it should be alphabetical, or divided by country.--Zeizmic 21:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

````The first two clubs on the list are those with most won international championships (Partizan and Olympiacos). I agree the list should be alphabetical or arranged by country. So do it. On the current list there is no another acceptable rule than this. ````Eventually, when adding on the list without specific order, you should know the standard wikipedia rule, that every new entry to the list should be continued from the bottom (of the current list).

Done Ryanjo 00:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

About the new rules
New rules:

30s Shot clock.

5m penalties.

5m foul-direct shots on goal.

If A player is inside the 4 and attempts to block a shot while the goalie is out, if both hands are out of the water but only one hnad is used, it is a 4 meter penalty shot (IHSA Rule Book)

Corners given only when goalkeeper deflects shot out of playing area (when players deflect the shot a goal throw is awarded).

Now let's see if the page will be updated..

'''I have already updated the article according the new rules. However, somebody else has changed this back into the old rules'''. I'll give it another try (02-02-2006).

ALSO! goalies cannot foul any player on the field, any minor foul beocmes a kick-out for a goalie. 06:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I tried to find something specific for the goalie as you mention--is it somewhere in the FINA rules? --- Ryanjo 01:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The main page for this article has an old link the rules, the new link is for USA water polo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billkirkpatrick (talk • contribs) 07:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Conflict with Olympics page
The Water Polo page claims it was the first team sport in the modern Olympics, debutting in 1908. But the Olympics page notes other team sports (including wp) at the 1904 games. One of these cannot be correct as it stands.

''I checked and it was first played at the 1900 games, but other sports, cricket, rugby, football (soccer), polo (with horses), rowing and tug of war were introduced as Olympic team sports along with water polo at the 1900 Olympics. So it was one of 7 "first" team sports'' Ryanjo 02:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

User 62.20.85.148 has changed text to re-state that water polo was the first team sport. I think that looking at the Wikipedia's 1900 Summer Olympics as well as the Olympic website for the 1900 games, it is apparent that a number of other team sports were played (cricket, rugby, football (soccer), polo (with horses), rowing and tug of war). Does anyone have information to the contrary? If not, I will revert the text back in a few days. Ryanjo 14:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Grammatical
Why does this section (under "Basic skills needed for a water polo player", end in "be"? :

Ball handling skills: As all field players are only allowed to touch the ball with one hand at a time, they must develop and must be

Maybe I could rephrase it, if the author could expand on the intended meaning of the sentence after the comma. Ryanjo 23:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I fixed it by editing the section Ryanjo 02:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Xcho Dynasty?
Original contributor states "Xcho Dynasty"--maybe Zhou Dynasty? Dates are BC 1100-250. Zhou Dynasty may also refer to later Zhou Dynasty from 690 to 705 AD. Would someone with access to original reference re-edit if it is wrong. Ryanjo 02:01, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Greatest players
I propose getting away from each editor adding another sentence to the "Basics skills.." section, concerning best players or teams or nationalities. This is clearly a point of view issue.

Options
 * 1) Separate section (under "History"?), called Notable players and teams or some such, with descriptive sentence or phrase (no "greatest" stuff), with a link to the player or event of note, or
 * 2) No section at all, just links under a "See also" section.

Please comment -- 69.34.131.1 17:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree with separate section option -- Ryanjo 03:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Inner tube
does anyone wanna merge the artice on inntertube waterpolo into this one?


 * Good idea, I think that you could either:


 * 1) Create a new section in this article (probably called "Game variations" or something), placed after the "History" section, and lift the whole inner tube water polo paragraph and put it there. This would work if the inner tube section remains only a few sentences long. OR,
 * 2) In the same place (after the "History" section) create a "See also" section, with a link to the inner tube water polo article. This would be preferable if the inner tube article is eventually going to be expanded, such as by pictures or lists of teams (See American_football, where there is a link to touch football and flag football).
 * Do either, and we'll see what other contributors make of it. Regards, Ryanjo 01:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I did option one, but I am not that experienced with wiklipedia, anyone wanna fix it up a bit for me


 * I did a redirect of the inner tube water polo article to this article--Ryanjo 16:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I just filled up the page of Inner Tube Water Polo with some good stuff. Hoping to expand on it even more in the future. I'm thinking now we can diminish the amount written here...or maybe not. What does everyone think? mattarch 15:10, 9 Jan 2009
 * Agree. I put a link to the main article and condensed the paragraph in this article. Ryanjo (talk) 00:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Teams from California
Because of some reverting of college names recently, I suggest that the names of specific teams from California mentioned in the US colleges and clubs section (Teams from California, including UCLA, Stanford, USC, Cal, UC Irvine, LMU, UCSB, San Diego State, and others dominate at the collegiate level.) be deleted, and replace with Teams from California dominate at the collegiate level. An interested contributor could then begin an article such as "US Collegiate Water Polo" to cover records, championships and so forth. I have commented out the team names to allow discussion here. The article is already quite long, and (if there is interest) the clubs section might be better as its own article as well, allowing a profile of some clubs, their records, etc.--Ryanjo 15:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Clubs were moved to List of water polo organizations. Someone may want to expand that article to cover famous teams.--Ryanjo 02:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The comparison to Ice Hockey
A major penalty in Ice Hockey is 5 minutes in the box, not an ejection. A Game Misconduct, Match penalty, or having too many penalties (about 5 depending on league) are the only ways to get kicked out.
 * I corrected the comparison under the "Overview" section to make this point clearer. Although it is called an "ejection", the player may return after 20 seconds, much like the 2, 4 and 5 minute penalties in ice hockey.--Ryanjo 21:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Long Article
Someone might want to split this article into a few different articles to make it more concise. For instance you could move the main sections of the History, Defense strategy, and Offense strategy into a newly created article such as History of Water Polo and leave just a small blurb about the History and Strategy under the main article. That would make it easier to navigate and read. Outside Center 22:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea, why don't you make a new History of water polo article, and move Section 8 (History) and 9 (Leading water polo teams) into it. Once you create the new article, leave a link, ie: to it at the top of section 2 (Overview), similar to the link to the Glossary of Water Polo. --Ryanjo 22:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the strategy sections belong in the main article, however. --Ryanjo 23:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello. First off I'd like to ask if you'd review the main water polo article and the new History of water polo article to make sure everything is in line. Also, I wasn't suggesting purging the entire sections on Strategy under water only making it substancially shorter, sort of like what happened with the history. Thanks for your time and effort Outside Center 23:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * History of water polo looks like a good start. I added a brief lead section similar to the Origins of baseball, and since the whole article is history, I took out the "History" section and elevated the subsections to sections. I also added categories and a "Notes" section so the "in-line" references are displayed, and a "See also" to refer back to Water polo. I put the "Leading water polo teams" templates into the history articles, since most are team records. Someone may eventually add details on the individual teams.
 * As far as the strategy section, I wouldn't expect such detail in a history article, unless referring to trends in team play, or styles of play developing, etc. I would suggest making another post about moving or reducing the strategy sections on the Talk:Water polo page before making a big edit of that type. Future editors may simply expand the defense and offense strategy sections again, not realizing the new location, since IMHO, it's not a "natural" for a history article. Regards--Ryanjo 01:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstood me. Instead of putting the strategy in the history section I wanted to create an article called something like Offensive (defensive) strategy of water polo and have just a spare bit in the main article much like the Rugby Union article. Outside Center 02:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I understand. I don't think there's enough water polo strategy to fill an article...just joking. It's much more coherent with the history and teams/records/clubs as separate articles, but if you want to go ahead--be bold. Regards, Ryanjo 17:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

apparent vandalism/vanity
"The goalkeeper is always the most handsome member of the team"

Unless there's a really good source for this that someone forgot to link to, I'm removing the reference about being handsome. If the term has some meaning that is not readily apparent in this context, then there should be an explanation. Sdr 14:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for keeping an eye out for the goofballs who post that stuff here. If they are water polo players, you'd think they'd care about improving the article, rather than vandalizing it. Ryanjo 02:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

More Vandalism
No one noticed the "Overtime -- If the penis is tied at the end of regulation play, two overtime periods of three minutes each are played. If the tie is not broken af..."? I'm cleaning that up lol.


 * More vandalism this time by User:Ponager. Look at his contributions, they are mostly vandalism, how do we get him banned? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ponager

I added to the goalie section.
Skinnylydia 06:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC) I'm a NFHS/USWP certified referee. I updated the goalie section according the the 2006-2007 NFHS rulebook. Also i was reading through and noticed a question I could answer.

This has to do with the 3 seconds of dead time after a foul question at the very top. Dead time ends as soon as the ball is returned to play.

RULE BOOK word for word: The timekeeper shall start the 35 second clock at the beginning of the period when the first player gains possession of the ball (the player need not actually touch the ball)and shall stop the clock each time the whistle blows. Play is resumed when the ball leaves the hand of the player taking a free throw, goal throw or corner throw.

By leaves the hand it doesn't mean throw, it just means leave the hand, so a player could bounce, swim or toss the ball up and down to themselves to put it in play.

as you can see no where in the rule book does it say 3 seconds after the foul, but this raises the question of a delay of game.

Summarized: If the player swims away from their free throw it is a turnover, If they fail to put the ball in play in a reasonable amount of time it is also a turnover. A reasonable amount of time is left up to the referees.

I don't count to three in my head, I usually give them time to regain possession of the ball, regain their posistion in the pool and have a look for a open man. I could do all three at the same time when i played so i expect the same of the players.

I only turn the ball over on free throws when a player:
 * doesn't put the ball in play by having the ball leave their hand (usually players bounce a ball out of habit so it isn't a problem but newer players forget sometimes and i just turn it over when i get bored of watching the same player do nothing; about 3-7 seconds if i timed it. the 3 is a slow 3 and the 7 only happens at novice games when the coach is trying to teach as they go)
 * swims away from a free throw

Also how do i add pictures?
 * Thanks for your contributions of the goalie rule changes. I have transferred them to the companion article to this one, History of water polo, since rule changes are better suited to that article. The tendency is for such details to be added to this main article, which had become so large that a few editors like Outside Center and myself tried to split the articles to several others, such as:
 * History of water polo - covering history & origins, famous players and games, Olympic & FINA records, evolution of the rules
 * List of water polo organizations - listing active water polo regulatory organizations, national committees, clubs
 * Glossary of Water Polo - covering terms used in water polo
 * Water polo ball - covering the evolution of the ball
 * You may want to look over these articles to see if you can make some contributions there.
 * I will look over your 3 second rule and see if I can fit it into the article, or go ahead yourself. If it's difficult, one of us will re-edit it.
 * As far as adding pictures (called images on Wikipedia): The most practical way is to look for any picture in an article, that is already the size and position that you want to make the picture that you are adding. Then hit the "edit" for that section to display the formatting, and copy the [[Image:nameof picture.jpg|thumb|180px|left|Caption of the picture]] . Then paste it into the place you want it in the article you want the picture in; change the "name of picture.jpg" to the name of the picture that you are uploading, and "Caption of the picture" the what you want under the image. Then hit the "Show preview" button under the edit window. The page will display with the image box in the correct position, but no picture -- you haven't uploaded it yet. If you click on the red text "Image:nameof picture.jpg" or whatever you are naming it, it will open some boxes to let you upload you picture. After its uploaded, use your browser's "Back" button to get back to the edit preview. Hit preview again, and your picture should display. More info is here: Uploading images. Regards, Ryanjo 16:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Equipment section
I started the equipment section a couple of days ago. I just noticed someone has added to it so I'm glad the section was improved. I don't know how I did it, but somehow I managed to forgot to add the caps to the list. Off course if anyone thinks things can be added or changed, feel free to do so :). -Jort227 10:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, it has come to my attention that the Caps colours are switched. At least in Holland (where I play water polo) the HOME team has white caps, and the VISITING team has (in Holland mostly) blue caps, sometimes green. In the article, it's mentioned that the HOME team has dark caps and the VISITING team has white caps... is this an international rule? 81.205.52.225 (talk) 12:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Water polo and "pulu"
True that there are no academic references to the statement"This 'water rugby' came to be called 'water polo' based on the English pronunciation of the Balti word for ball, pulu," However the information is generally available in several older publications, as well as some web accessible sites, such as: , ,  &. In addition, looking on line in linguistic sites confirms the origins of the word "pulu", lending some support to this statement.

As a rule, it is better to discuss deletions or alternative versions with other editors before changing established articles. Ryanjo 03:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I added some references for this statement in the articles. Ryanjo 02:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I changed the statement in the first paragraph which used to say that the objective is to score the most points. Some bad teams have been known to have other objectives, such as to injure the other team's best player so I've changed the statement to say that the winner is the team with the most points.  That way, we don't assume what other people are thinking (such as if others are trying to injure good players or trying to get the most points or trying to play a defensive game). In all, a minor point. Polounit 02:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Restructuring the Water polo article
I want to open up discussion with interested editors about a complete restructuring of the Water polo article, which has become very long. Also, in many areas, contributors have added very detailed descriptions of players, strategy & tactics, etc., which clutters up the goal of a general article: getting a sense of what Water polo is. For example, a person coming to this article on Wikipedia may not (initially) need to know the steps of executing a "pop shot"...it may be enough for them to know what it is. So I would like to suggest the following framework for the proposed reorganization:
 * 1) With the "Overview" section as a guide, create a true overview of the sport with more detail from each of the present sections below it, using the same sections, but only a paragraph each covering each topic. This would serve as the main Water polo article.
 * 2) Develop new articles to cover in better detail each general topic, linked to the main Water polo article by "See also" or "Main article" links, such as are used now for the Glossary and History sub-articles.

A possible reorganization could look like this:


 * Lead paragraph: Needs to be expanded to several sentences, serving as a super-short summary of what water polo is, per WP:LEAD.


 * The Water Polo Match (composed of a summary of the first 3 paragraphs of the Overview section)
 * Main article: Structure of a water polo match (to be created): expanded detail of the first 3 paragraphs of the Overview section, and add an Officials section and an Equipment section from the present Water polo equipment section)


 * Players & Positions (composed of a summary of the Positions section)
 * Main article: Water polo players and positions (to be created): expand detail on players, coaching etc.


 * Strategy and game play (composed of a summary of the Offense strategy and Defense strategy sections)
 * Main article: Water polo strategy and game play (to be created)
 * Main article: Water polo fouls (to be created)


 * Basic skills and ball handling (composed of a summary of the Basic skills and Ball handling skills sections)
 * Main article: Water polo skills (to be created), with the present Basic skills and Ball handling skills sections, which are very detailed already


 * Game variations (leave as is)


 * History (already refers to a sub-article)


 * Water polo federations, teams...(already refers to a sub article)

Please comment, criticize, contribute!
 * Notes
 * Further reading
 * External links

Ryanjo 00:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

football/soccer?
Water Polo is much more like basketball than soccer. I actually don't see how soccer and WP are related except for the goalie. In basketball and WP positions are almost identical as is the game play and player movement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.26.246 (talk) 01:08, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Mistake in the Swimoff Description
I believe that the part of the article which talks about the swimoff forgot to mention that in most important competitions it is not the referee who throws the ball in the middle of the pool. Instead there is a a floating ring in the centre of the pool inside which the ball is placed. As soon as the players start swimming towards it, it is removed, normally by someone pulling a rope connected to it from outside the pool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.17.89.133 (talk) 22:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Typical regulation game?
Forgive me if I just missed it, but I didn't see anything in the article about how many periods of play there typically are in regulation, and how long those periods are. Can someone with knowledge of this sport please add this information?

Eric (EWS23) 20:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Duration of a waterpolo game?
I expected to find that on wiki.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.193.205.136 (talk) 08:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Same here, I'm looking at the Olympic semi-finals atm, and I was curious how long a match takes, but surprisingly I couldn't find anything on that subject here. UmutK (talk) 08:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently there are 4 periods of 8 minutes each. UmutK (talk) 08:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Me too. Thanks UmutK for putting the answer here. 194.171.252.100 (talk) 11:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the Dutch wiki, length of a period varies between 3 and 8 minutes, dependent on age and experience of the players. Oliphaunt (talk) 12:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

confusing
The Article jumps straight into Skills and stratergy. I came here to find a description of what water polo was but the game isn't described until the History section and then the description is very brief. The Introduction should describe what water polo is and either the intro or the first section should explain the When Were who how and why. I don't really care about the skills one needs to play or the stratergies involved, I just wanted to know what it was. This seems to be aimed at people who already know about water polo which defeats the whole object.(Morcus (talk) 19:22, 26 August 2008 (UTC))
 * You are correct, somehow the Overview section was deleted! I replaced it. Ryanjo (talk) 01:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Looking to start a program
I am employed at a beautiful Health Club in Wall Township NJ and want to start up a Water Polo Program at our facility. Do you have a contact in our area to consult? Tnx ellenv@theatlanticclub.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.23.29 (talk) 23:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is only a discussion page for the water polo article. Info like this can be obtained from USA Water Polo. Good luck. Ryanjo (talk) 00:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

UCD-Marian Waterpolo Club
Founded in 2008, UCD-Marian Waterpolo Club is based in the Dublin suburb of Ballsbridge in Dublin 4. The club currently boasts a 25% win record, as of the end of the 2008/first half of the 2008/09 season. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johntryan (talk • contribs) 05:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This is only a discussion page for the water polo article. Ryanjo (talk) 12:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)