Talk:West Frisian Dutch

Light vs. strong dialects
In the third paragraph, light and strong dialects are discussed, but never defined. I think a brief description of these two terms would be helpful, before jumping into their relative status.--SteveMtl 16:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Merging West Frisian (language)
The article West Frisian (language) and this article West Frisian (dialect) are about the same subject and overlap in content. I suggest to merge these pages. Xenan (talk) 11:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not knowing much about the subject, I tentatively support this. Is my understanding correct that this West Frisian (language) is undocumented and its existence essentially based on speculation? The article is totally uninformative as to how this language differs in any concrete aspect from the West Frisian language or the Frisian languages in general on the one hand, and from the West Frisian (dialect) on the other hand. --Lambiam 02:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That is indeed my point. It is confusing. The West Frisian language exists, is well documented and internationally recognized. It is in use in Fryslân (Friesland), the northern part of the Netherlands. But the article West Frisian (language) is about a language possibly spoken in the north of North Holland in the past, and supposedly a predecessor of the current dialect. However there is no scientific source for this claim. I personally think the claim is true, but it simply does not belong on Wikipedia because of WP:NOR. And when a proof will be given, it can be mentioned in a History section of West Frisian (dialect). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xenan (talk • contribs) 06:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Be bold: merge this. Sebastian scha. (talk) 15:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Redirected. The info from the article is in the next section:

merged info
West Frisian (Westfries) was a language which was spoken in the historical region West Friesland. Not to be confused with the spoken language of the Friesland province internationally indicated with the name West Frisian language (in Dutch simply Fries) although they are related to each other. Therefore the Dutch name Westfries is sometimes used in English.

The language came into life during and after the wars with Holland, around the 12th and 13th century. But from the late 15th and 16th century it became little by little affected by other dialects and languages, such as Brabantic, Hollandic and Dutch Low Saxon. At first the changes where small, some dialect arrived, such as the now still known dialects Zaans and Waterlands and other smaller dialectical differences between speakers. Not much was actually written in these languages or dialects as the region was politically dominated by the Hollandic Dutch-speaking region of Holland.

From the 18th century that effect was also making that the language was slowly developing into a dialect itself and so it was becoming increasingly Hollandic and Dutch. In the 19th century the language itself has almost completely disappeared. Although some say the heavy dialect, the West Frisian dialect (West-Fries) that is, is a continuation of the language. Halfway the 20th century it has also almost completely disappeared. Currently only the strong and light dialect remain; West Frisian, Zaans, Waterlands, and the closely related Kennemerlands and Strand-Hollands outside the historical region of West Friesland.