Talk:Western honey bee

Brother Adam on Ligustica
"This race embraces a number of clearly distinguishable varieties. From the commercial and breeding point of view the best is the dark, leather-coloured bee which has its home in the Ligurian Alps. The lighter coloured variety, which was at one time all over the world from the region round Bologna, proved satisfactory everywhere, but showed the drawbacks of the race more clearly than the darker bee. The very light coloured strains, common in North and South America, New Zealand and Australia have a great number of advantages as well as disadvantages but as far as we have ascertained they are less well suited for breeding purposes. The golden variety, or the Aurea, which was once so greatly admired, has proved to be a failure form all practical aspects. Any results which do not state the exact variety in question can lead to mistaken conclusions. The four varieties of the Ligustica cannot be lumped together or brought under one common denominator. Unfortunately this often happens.

From the commercial and breeding point of view the value of the Ligustica lies in a happy sythesis of a great number of good characteristics. Among these we must mention industry, gentleness, fertility, reluctance to swarm, zeal for building comb, white honey-cappings, a willingness to enter supers, cleanliness, resistance to disease, and the tendency to collect flower honey rather than honey dew. The last-named trait is of value only in countries where the colour of the honey determines the price. The Ligustica has shown that she is able to produce good crops from the red clover. In one other characteristic has the Ligustica proved exceptional and that is in her resistance to Acarine. This is especially true of the dark, leather-coloured variety, whereas the golden strains are highly susceptible to Acarine.

However the Ligustica has her drawbacks, and these are serious. She lacks vitality and is inclined to excessive brood rearing. These two faults are the root cause of her other disadvantages. She has too a tendency to drift which is caused by a poor sense of orientation and this can prove a drawback where colonies are set out in rows facing in one direction as is the common practice in apiaries almost world-wide.

Curiously enough, all the above mentioned faults of the Ligustica appear in greatly emphasised form in the very light coloured strains, with an additional one, an unusually high consumption of stores. In European countries such strains have proved highly unsatisfactory as they tend to turn every drop of honey into brood. These light coloured varieties are likewise as already stated unusually susceptible to Acarine. The reason for this is not known in spite of all the work spent on trying to find it. It is all the more surprising when we consider that the dark, leather-coloured Ligustica has over a period of more than 60 years proved to be one of the most resistant to Acarine.

The almost exclusive concentration of these light coloured Italian strains in North America seems to be due to the fact that in sub-tropical Southern and Western States the large queen-rearing centres are concerned mainly with the sale of bees, where honey production plays a secondary role. Hence they need a bee which is given to brood rearing to an extreme degree, something which in entirely different climactic conditions constitutes a serious drawback.

In the dark, leather-coloured Ligustica we have a unique combination of factors of economic and breeding value, thanks to which she has found a welcome in every part of the world. When properly handled she is second to none in answering the needs of the commercial beekeeper, both when pure bred or crossed. For cross breeding she is suitable both on the mother's and father's side and this applies too when crossed with any other races. This universal aptitude for breeding with establish the Ligustica as the foundation for future developments of combination breeding."


 * yeah? LegalSmeagolian (talk) 19:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Irish Honey Bee rediscovered
Hello, a subject editor might be interested in this information about the Apis mellifera mellifera sub-species found recently in two widely separated parts of Ireland: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hillsborough-castle-buzzing-over-native-24659135

Regards, Billsmith60 (talk) 10:13, 4 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi Billsmith60, these kind of well meaning (but detached from scientific facts) news articles are quite common in Ireland and Britain. In the first two sentences of that article I counted five incorrect statements: I wish beekeepers would read scientific papers more, before making pronouncements like these. It must have been a shock to the poor bees to discover that they were almost extinct! Especially when research going back to the 1960s shows that the A. m. mellifera dominates the island, for example 97.8% of the genetics on the island is Amm based on 2017 research. Interesting that the beekeeper is breeding / selecting 'darker' coloured bees, when recent research showed that in doing so one would decrease the amount of Amm DNA in the bees (the bees with orange colour in their first and second tergites had more Amm DNA than bees which were all dark). The key thing to watch out for in these articles is the lack of correct scientific terminology, etc. Bibby (talk) 00:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

European ... really?
The opening sentence of this article gives a common English name as "European honey bee", considering that the continent of Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia and now just at China, have their own Apis mellifera (not imported by humans), should we really be using the very inaccurate name "European"? Some may cite old texts using this now outdated terminology, but when you read the newest DNA research the term is very misleading. I would suggest just deleting the words "or European honey bee", for the opening sentence to just read "The western honey bee (Apis mellifera) is the..."

Anyone have any objections to this, and reasons why, before I go ahead? Bibby (talk) 14:27, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * A common English name still is the "European honey bee". What it's called in English and its cosmopolitan distribution are two different things. Might want to hold off making a bold change until consensus forms on this talk page. Just plain Bill (talk) 15:06, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That's one of the points I'm making, I've never heard a beekeeper refer to the Apis mellifera as "European", mainly just "honey bee" and sometimes "Western bees" but meaning the "Honey bee" to distinguish from the "Eastern bees" species. Whenever we take the recent DNA results over the past several years, it's a misleading name at best. Lets wait, for now. Bibby (talk) 15:46, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Something else to bear in mind: technically speaking, this is the primary article for the species as a whole, but would also (in an expanded version where all subspecies have their own articles) be the primary article for the subspecies A. mellifera mellifera - which is, indisputably, European, as is the most widespread domesticated breed (ligustica). Yes, there are subspecies of mellifera outside of Europe, but when they have their own article, they do not list "European honey bee" as their common name. That particular common name, I would say, SHOULD be retained in THIS article. If you feel very strongly that the common name "European honey bee" is misleading, then including an explanation in the article (preferably with citations) is a better approach than pretending the name doesn't exist. It DOES exist, and people use it, and this is the article where it belongs. Dyanega (talk) 16:02, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In the most recent attempt to organize the various subspecies of Apis mellifera, "A revision of subspecies structure of western honey bee Apis mellifera" at "Table 1. The current taxonomy of the honey bee Apis mellifera" you will see that the "A.mellifera mellifera" is not as you say "indisputably, European", it is listed under "Western Asia and the Middle East" (the Western name, as I've said, is being used to distinguish this bee species with the Eastern bee species). In fact there are 11 subspecies listed from Africa, 9 listed from Asia, that's 20 in total, against 13 listed for Europe (actually three of which almost certainly and possibly as many as five are more likely to be phenotypes of other already existing subspecies, meaning further future DNA research may likely reduce the number allocated to Europe to only 10 to 8). Either way we look at it the Apis mellifera is only 39% European, by number of subspecies, barely 21% of total surface area! I think we may be reflected a European point of view, there's not many Africans which would call their honey bees European. One last thing to remember, the A. m. mellifera only migrated into northern Europe no more than 9000BC and didn't arrive into the British Isles until 2000 years ago (Scandinavia about less than 400 years).
 * I don't believe I clearly understand your sentence, "Yes, there are subspecies of mellifera outside of Europe,.." do you mean the 20 subspecies listed in Table 1. of the Source I've cited? Or are you getting the Species Apis mellifera (which every researcher / academic recognizes came from outside of Europe, probably Africa or Middle East) mixed up with the other honey bee species from the East the Apis cerana, Apis florea, etc. (vs. the one species from the West, the Apis mellifera)? Bibby (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "by number of subspecies" is not a great way to characterize the prevalence of particular strains in a population. In my corner of the world, ligustica, carnica, and caucasia are what beekeepers mostly recognize: two European and one straddling a zone between Eastern Europe and Western Asia. Whatever their origin, I believe A. m. mellifera was domesticated in Europe. You may quibble with the last two bits, but "number of strains" tells us nothing about how many of which kind are kept, or live as feral colonies. Just plain Bill (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I was just using it as an example, to show that the majority of subspecies are outside Europe, with Europe being the smallest area that Apis mellifera are present.
 * In relation to your claim that Apis mellifera were domesticated in Europe, there is excellent archeological evidence from Israel (Tel Rehov) that there was beekeeping, including migratory beekeeping on a large scale, going back 3000 years, and evidence of beekeeping dating back 4600 years in Egypt; also I believe most beekeepers would not agree that bees are domesticated, managed may be a more accurate description.
 * Bottom line: Apis mellifera evolved outside Europe, most subspecies are outside Europe, Europe is the smallest continent that they are on, Europe was the last region to be colonized by them. Surely the use of "European" instead of "Western" is more to do with the historical dominance of (northern) European scientific culture, within the academic literature.
 * Today the terms being used for the species of honey bees are "Asian honey bees" that only originate from Asia, meaning east Asia; and "Western honey bees" meaning Africa, west Asia and Europe, readers / listeners immediately understand which species are being referred to.... BUT if the term "European honey bees" is used then an explanation of what is meant is needed, if all members of the Apis mellifera species is being referred to. However IF you are referring to the subspecies A. m. ligusta or carnica, etc. then yes use the term "these European honey bees" because you are NOT referring to the species Apis mellifera, unlike this Wiki page! How many Egyptian or African researchers would refer to their bees as European? They're "Western" to distinguish them from the "(solely) Asian" honey bees. Bibby (talk) 21:40, 18 January 2023 (UTC)