Talk:Women's Flat Track Derby Association

Team-specific pages
I've changed a few of the links to go to internal pages, rather than the external links. Even though this might seem like it's losing information, it's actually strengthening the article. We're not really losing links, because they're already on the individual wikipedia pages for the individual teams. Plus, having internal links, rather than external links makes it read much less like advertising, and much more like a wikipedia article. Fredsmith2 18:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Kansas City, Texas, and Carolina need pages
The top teams from the Texas tournament all really should have their own pages. So, I guess I'm requesting pages for Texas Rollergirls, Kansas City Roller Warriors, and Carolina Rollergirls. Rat City Rollergirls and Tucson Roller Derby already have pages. Fredsmith2 18:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Kansas City Roller Warriors previously had a page, which was deleted. I could not (quickly) figure out how to go about having it un-deleted after their notability was established in the championship.Michael J Swassing 03:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * FWIW, the old article was just a stub with a link to the KCRW site.. Of course it can be recreated; just go to the nonexistent page and edit it. However, it will need to have more content than it did before. A good place to start for references: a Google news archive search. —mjb 08:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Non-WFTDA league on the list
Queen City Rollergirls are listed as a member of the WFTDA on this page. However, they are not yet members of the WFTDA (per the WFTDA website's member leagues list). From their web page they are playing by WFTDA rules and are seeking membership, but this doesn't appear to have happened yet. TimBRoyLV 20:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Good catch! Queen City was added on December 12, 2006 by a Verizon business IP address that looks to be somewhere in or near Buffalo, NY (where that league is based). I'll remove them from the list for now. In the future, we should demand a reference for any membership changes that can't be verified at the WFTDA site. —mjb 23:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ddtextlogo color.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Leage status check
Can someone check and see if the Meltdown Town Derby Dames from Paducah, KY are officially members yet. I know that they are new members and were beginning the process a while back. Hooper (talk) 20:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Not as of yet, going by the WFTDA member league list page, the Roller Derby Worldwide site, and the league's own MySpace profile. None of them say that they AREN'T a WFTDA league, but none of them say that they ARE a WFTDA league either. From time to time WFTDA delays updating the membership list on their site. I don't have any great reason to believe this is one of those occasions. It's not at all unusual for some members of non-member leagues to assume that they're a member league because they skate using WFTDA rules, or that they're members because they've begun the membership application process. TimBRoyLV (talk) 09:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

League divisions no longer exist
I'm not sure how this would be fixed, but if you check the WFTDA Members page there's no longer a Division 1, 2, and 3. There's now Class A and Class B leagues. I'm seeking clarification from WFTDA (as in, on their website) of what the distinction between the two classes is. TimBRoyLV (talk) 13:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

At present, WFTDA lists no divisions nor classes on its website. While I can ask them for for clarification on this point, unless they announce this publicly there's no way I can avoid it appearing to be original research. While WFTDA does publish its rules of play, its bylaws do not appear to be published anywhere. No mention is made of classes or divisions exist on the "Join WFTDA" page, which may suggest that they have been done away with entirely. It also could mean that Class B leagues may now write letters of recommendation. While I could infer that then there'd be no reason to continue having classes, that'd be a leap without a reference. TimBRoy (talk) 20:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Regional and Championship tournaments only? Or all WFTDA tournaments?
While the tournament was hosted the Pikes Peak Derby Dames and paid for by them and the participating leagues, I would say that Four Corners Feud could be considered a 2007 WFTDA tournament because only WFTDA leagues (in the "Four Corners" states) were allowed to participate. Does the tournament need to be listed on the WFTDA site as a WFTDA event? What's the consensus? TimBRoy (talk) 07:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There doesn't appear to be any discussion of this. I'm contemplating removing Bumberbout, as while it was presumably an all-WFTDA tournament, it was not what the header suggests the section will contain (championship tournaments).


 * This year there were at least two or three other tournaments with nothing but WFTDA teams, or brackets that were WFTDA-only. As WFTDA continues to grow, the numbers of these WFTDA-teams-but-not-WFTDA-organized/sponsored-events are likely to grow as well. Eventually this article could become overwhelmed with state and local WFTDA (but not WFTDA) tournaments.


 * Suggestion: Remove Bumberbout, limit the list of tournaments to official WFTDA regional and national tournaments. Five a year is manageable. Beyond that, less so. I think the section on the first Dust Devil could be trimmed down to a single paragraph. If that event was important enough to take up this much of the article, perhaps it could use an article of its own? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimBRoy (talk • contribs) 05:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think any of the tournaments are notable enough for their own articles. And keeping a record of the participants & outcome of each tournament is more of a job for the WFTDA site than for the Wikipedia article about the association itself. For the same reason, I don't think the current rankings and membership lists really belong here. But I don't feel strongly enough about it to oppose their inclusion, which seems to be relatively harmless. As for your suggestion, I'd just have a paragraph which says that aside from the WFTDA-organized regional & national championship tournaments, there have been regional, invitational tournaments organized and played under WFTDA rules by WFTDA member leagues. Then the ones that have happened so far can just be tersely mentioned in a single sentence. —mjb (talk) 18:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

File:WFTDA_logo.jpg may be deleted
I have tagged File:WFTDA_logo.jpg, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. -- Chris  09:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
Wikipedia information about Conflict of Interest (COI): Editors with COIs are strongly encouraged to declare their interests, both on their user pages and on the talk page of any article they edit, particularly if those edits may be contested. Most Wikipedians will appreciate your honesty. Editors who disguise their COIs are often exposed, creating a perception that they, and perhaps their employer, are trying to distort Wikipedia.

My declaration of intent, Regarding WFTDA Wikpedia: My interest in collaboratly editing the WFTDA Wikipedia is purely to add to an informational site about the organization based on historical fact. I contribute to this page on a regular basis to update member leagues, rankings, tournaments and other factual information from a neutral point of view. In addition, I may occasionally contribute graphics that are only used to enhance the understanding of some of this information. My updates are designed to chronicle the organization in an encyclopedic and historic way.

TheTerminatrix (talk) 00:47, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, but who are you and what is your relation to WFTDA? (i.e., why is there a COI?) —mjb (talk) 20:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

How to handle new ranking system
While I haven't seen really CLEAR details of how the new system will be presented... here's what we know: Regional rankings are going away, in favor of a new math-based system broken down by divisions. This MIGHT lead to a(n absurdly) long list of 106 ranked leagues, perhaps we could shorten it a bit by doing Div 1, Div 2, Div 3 side by side? One thing that remains publicly unstated is whether the new system would have the top ranked team in Div 2 as number 1 for that division or as #42 overall. I'm not asking any reps or in-the-know members to violate their NDA agreements, just suggesting that we discuss how the new ranking system might be represented here on this page.

If the new WFTDA ranking page showed past rankings, this page could as well. Discuss?

For that matter, it seems to me that the existing region pages would likely be going away and be replaced with divisional pages... TimBRoy (talk) 14:59, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Good question. Much of the great work on the WFTDA (and roller derby in general) articles has been done by Warofdreams; I've dropped the editor a line on their talk page about this. Echoedmyron (talk) 15:44, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. I suggest keeping the pages for the regions as historic information.  I'm unsure whether each division will merit its own article - leagues will remain in each division for a year, so they may be notable.  I'm pretty sure that the top ranked team in division two will be number 41 overall, as the ranking system will use this overall rank in the calculation to determine ranking points for each bout.  But that doesn't preclude splitting this list by division for presentational purposes - I agree it would be easier to parse three shorter lists than one very long one. Warofdreams talk 01:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Warofdreams and TimBRoy: With the 2013 tournament rankings announced, and the death of regional tournaments, and birth of divisions 1 and 2, a number of things need updating: Thoughts? Echoedmyron (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * making the regional articles historical and past tense
 * replacing region templates with division templates (I believe Warofdreams has done this or at least started it)
 * updating the WFTDA article to explain the divisional system (there's also an obsolete explanation of what divisions used to mean in the early days that ought to be changed:
 * creation of articles for the division tournaments. Previously we had 4 regional tournaments, which meant it made sense for there to be a North Central article that got updated every year. Now, we have D1 split into 4, and D2 split into 2, plus the ultimate championship tournament. Going forward, I propose keeping WFTDA Championships of course, and either creating a single WFTDA playoffs article, which could then have a 2013 WFTDA playoffs, 2014, etc every year, or: WFTDA Division 1 tournaments and WFTDA Division 2 tournaments, each of which could get added to every year.
 * many member league articles, if not most have a table showing their regional rankings, like this: Toronto_Roller_Derby. We ought to update them to reflect the fact that historically these were regional rankings, and create fields that list both their division and overall ranking. I think.
 * Here's how I've handled the update for Toronto's rankings table: Opinions? Echoedmyron (talk) 00:15, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the rankings on the page to reflect the November 30 rankings. Also moved teams around on the three divisional whatsits that are on the bottom of the page. I was about to edit the three divisional pages, but was concerned that simply moving leagues around might remove information some might perhaps find useful. Here's the thing though: Leagues will be moving from division to division every year. Eventually a divisional history section (whatever it be called) could get rather massive. Leagues could bounce from Div 2 to 3 and back again repeatedly. It's not really like the old region pages or the AP page where leagues would generally move once, and occasionally twice. TMI? I wanted to get consensus before I start moving teams without copying them into another table on their old division, but especially before I go through the hassle of manually generating more tables (which is almost as big a pain as maintaining an additional table annually). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimBRoy (talk • contribs) 15:42, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, in National Hockey League division articles, they will add a "changes from xxxx season" every time there's a membership change in the off season. Which, agreed, is a) not necessarily yearly b) only involves a couple of teams each time. That said, my suggestion is to retitle the charts of members as "Current member leagues" with an as-of date, the date that Divisions got set/announced. Create a separate chart that lists "former members", which in addition to the columns that main charts have could have two further columns: "Left division" date, and also "went to" or something similar in name, to represent why the team left - they either were moved to another WFTDA division, left WFTDA or folded completely. I'll see if I can at least set up the D1 page with this today, and see what you guys think. While it may seem like work to maintain, I figure between the 3 of us - and more folks in the future - it shouldn't be too bad. Echoedmyron (talk) 19:56, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * UGH. The idiots at WFTDA.com just like to link to the Rankings page or the Divisions page when they make announcements, so there's no citable article ANYWHERE - DNN didn't write one either - that officially announced the 2013 Division makeups. So when they announced the 2014 ones on WFTDA.com, they simply overwrote them. So there's nothing to use as a source for the joined dates for the 2013 members. I mean, I can use the the URL for the Divisions page, since it would have been there once, but it ain't there now, and Wayback Machine has nothing. At least the Rankings page updates are separate and dated. Echoedmyron (talk) 20:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, DNN did write one. While it probably isn't all-inclusive, their article about the November 2013 rankings does detail a number of leagues' movement from division to division. Leagues were placed in divisions by way of their last ranking of the year before. So for 2013, the final 2012 rankings (or first numeric ones, I guess?) determined their divisional placement. Ranks 1-40 are Div 1, 41-100 are Div 2, 101 and up are Div 3. Unranked teams are Div 3. Divisions don't change during the year. The Rankings page does show old rankings, which can actually be a pain when you're doing a text search for a particular team's rank.TimBRoy (talk) 19:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)


 * How's that look? Zytsef (talk) 18:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Moved rankings to own article
The section on rankings seemed overly detailed for the main article about WFTDA. I created and linked to Women's Flat Track Derby Association Rankings. The section on rankings still exists, it's just more concise, talking only about the general topic of ranking. SnappingTurtle (talk) 21:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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Playoffs and Cups
I have taken the short section "Championship tournaments" and renamed it Post-season tournaments, since it contained mention of the Continental Cups, and they don't feed into Championships per se, so post-season seemed more reasonable. I further subdivided this section into "Playoffs and Championships" and "Continental Cups" - I don't think standalone articles for Playoffs in general nor for Cups are currently warranted (especially given the frequency with which the WFTDA changes its models), but for the latter, when updating rankings tables in team articles, which traditionally mention Playoff finishes, those tables can now link to the Continental Cups section. (Not sure if creating a redirect for "WFTDA Continental Cups" is worthwhile.) Both paragraphs could use some additional expansion and references from beyond the WFTDA, but in thinking about how to update team articles once the December 31, 2018, rankings are published I came up with this for how to handle tables in articles for teams that played at Cups in 2018.

A separate thing to handle is Divisions; D2 had been publicly described as no longer, and while D1 essentially has been as well, this hasn't appeared in writing that I can find. The WFTDA simply stopped using the designations, and the 2018 Playoffs were simply that, "Playoffs", and D1 didn't come into play on paper. Which would mean that teams that were at Playoffs in 2018 would see their tables updated with simply their Playoff finish and no D1 link, or DNP if they declined as many did, or bye for the 4 teams that advanced straight to Champs. My thought with creating the Cups subsection is to identify those teams as CC, linking to this Cups subsection for now. Perhaps the Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 1 article should be updated to past tense, as Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 2 and Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 3 already were. The team templates (such as Template:WFTDA Division 2) could stay for historical reference I suppose, but wonder what others think. Echoedmyron (talk) 18:43, 4 January 2019 (UTC)