Talk:Yakuza/Archive 1

Itallics, capitalised, both or neither
Should it be written Yakuza, yakuza, yakuza or Yakuza or does it depend upon the context, and the part of the article? At the moment all of the preceding are used, I think. --Timtak (talk) 09:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Pronunciation should be on the page. I've heard "yakuza" pronounced both "YA-ku-za" and "ya-KU-za". It's a quick edit if you know Japanese. 71.244.168.75 (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Free form discussion
In which way is ykuza connected to 9/11 sounds like conspiracy gossip to me

There are more Mara Salvatrucha than Yakuza members, so it can't be the largest criminal organization in the world.

Why is there an irrelevent section on the intro to this article about some one witha "a retard laugh.  Also much of this article seems as if it was edited many times by someone who either does not speak good english or was typing too fast.

The entire current activities section does not cite any sources... someone should fix that, I would, but I'm lazy. In fact it's taken completely from http://www.yakuza-mafia.blogspot.com/. So I deleted it.

Hi. What does anybody think about having a picture of a Yakuza's back somewhere on this page? I have to one image on the whole page. The picture of a street "where" they hang out, and the picture of a movie poster "about" them are both good to flesh out the idea of Yakuza, but a picture of an actual tattoo would show well, even if it is a media hyped stereotype, you agree it is one of the Yakuza defining qualities in real life as well as media? Let me know. BIGFATS 09:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

It's redundant to include the Japanese language link in front of the word &#12420;&#12367;&#12374;. It's obvious what language the word is in. Exploding Boy 06:47, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

This is common practice throughout Wikipedia to link to the language. WhisperToMe 04:11, 19 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Not in the way you're doing it. Exploding Boy 14:55, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

Added or changed few thing. Yakuza accept non japanese especially Korean Japanese which form significant part of their membership (20-30%). Changed white slavely to sex slavery. The majority of human trafficing involving prostitution come from asia. More general human traficing for manual labour are looked after by Chinese mafia. Yakuza don't consider themselves as samurai. Their fuedal origin is communal police/vigilante for the common, such as river transport or market/fair. As a conseqnence, they always had open office plus they don't usually commit theft. It is much easier to see their financial activity as collection of fedal tax, i.e. "zabuoi". FWBOarticle

Quite few factual accounts had to be changed in previous page. It fail to distingush difference between yakuza and uyoku which isn't the same thing. In turn it fail to understand the yakuza position in japanese power hirachy. I pretty much rewrote the section. Please correct my Engrish. FWBOarticle

Thanks everyone for correcting my Engrish. (^_^) FWBOarticle


 * IMHO yakuza should be merged with boryokudan, they're effectively the same thing. Jpatokal 10:22, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, but my vote would be to merge boryokudan with this article, since "yakuza" is the term most familiar to speakers of English. Exploding Boy 23:42, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

1. This article needs a longer introduction before the lengthy history section. The instroduction should explain th most important differences between yakuza and western mafia, as well as its role in Japan.

2. The article feels very pro-yakuza in general.

-The Yakuza are seen by Japanese police authorities as being a semi-legitimate part of society. You have to understand the fabric of Japanese society and its group mentality to really understand this concept.

3. This article is very repetitive if you can actually read through the whole thing. Also, there is a lot of terminology swapping, it becomes unclear which group is being talked about at times.

I had always heard the reason for the name Yakuza was to refer to the figurative "bad hand" that the original samurai who had lost their positions due to the abolishment of the samurai class felt they had been dealt, rather then the bad luck that their enemies would face. OrangeAid 05:03, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Confusion template
This article has very long and confusion sections. It is almost impossible for a reader to find what he/she's looking for unless he/she read the whole article. Bayerischermann 17:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Help in introducing edits
I know there is a policy on no original research, but the activities of the yakuza 1) have changed greatly in the past decade or so and 2) are VERY different in small cities as compared to metropolitan areas.

I am in good terms with the head of the local yakuza as he is the uncle of my fiancèe. Through him I have found quite a few differences between the Wiki description and the actual activities of small-town yakuza as well as in the new methods that the organizations stay in business. How can it be appropriate to incorporate this information or use this to edit the article? Is it even possible? Smoove K 03:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would suggest that you find a reputable, reliable source that backs up your findings. I suppose if your fiancee's uncle were to go on record as to what the yakuza's activities generally are in smaller towns it could be used here. Theshibboleth 05:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject
Please see WikiProject Organized crime (proposed) for details on this possible collaborative effort. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MadMax (talk • contribs)

Conflict?
The following statement does not seem to make sense to me: "'In 1999, Italian-American Mafia Bonnano family boss Mickey Zaffarino was overheard talking about the profits of the pornography trade that both families could profit from.'" From the page on the Bonanno family the boss during this time was Joe Massino. I also had trouble even locating mention of this guys name anywhere on the net. Can someone clarify this situation for me, perhaps I am missing something. -- zero faults   ' '' 17:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC) I found some information for myself, Mike Zaffarano, is the proper spelling it seems or Mickey Zaffarano. He was an enforcer and capo in the family, however never rose to boss status. He was linked to an operation called All-State Film Labs which processed 8mm porn for use in coin operated peep show machines. Going to fix the naming and change his status to capo. -- zero faults   ' '' 20:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

What's does Yakuza mean in Japanese? Buidinhthiem 04:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Tattoos
I think we need a section on tatoos in article. They are only mentioned couple of times even though its one of the more well known identifying marks of Yakuza (at least in popular media).

Actually, the term should be HorimonoYama88 (talk) 05:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with tattoos needing it's own section. Also the line "Many yakuza have full-body tattoos (including their genitalia)" needs clarification in my opinion. To me it sounds like they are saying the entire body is often covered. Yet it seems more common that only certain large sections of the body are covered, (the back, buttocks, chest, sides, thigh...et cetera) while actually avoiding covering other areas (anything above the collar, below the wrists or ankles, and a section from the base of the neck down the torso). Due to this pattern, it also appears that the genitals would not be tattooed either. Does anyone have more information on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Broshiki (talk • contribs) 22:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

non-japanese yakuza
KOREAN ORIGIN YAKUZA IN JAPAN IS VERY BIG AND POWERFUL PRESENCE. TOP 3 YAKUZA GROUPS HAVE KOREAN BOSSES. (aka use Japanese names). Top 3 Yakuza groups have connections with Korean Yakuza groups in Tokyo. The actual member for Korean Yakuza is probably over 80,000 or 60,000 Thousand members. They recruit Korean street gang members or Korean mob associated with other Korean Mafia groups in ( Kyungsangdo Provinces or Chollanamdo Provinces in Korea). If you use " common sense" probably 1,000 thousand members Korean ethnic Yakuza bosses and actual foot soilders number around 80,000 Thousands divided in 6 different groups in Japan and Korea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostonasia (talk • contribs) 13:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

first off, japanese yakuza have almost no korean or outside membership, korean organized crime in japan pertains to its own crime groups, there are korean yakuza in japan but they belong to korean groups not japanese ones
 * How about citing some sources? Shinhan 18:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

To Mr Unknown: Not true at all. There are many Zainichi Kankokujin (Japanese-Koreans) in the Japanese yakuza, besides the Korean gangs in Japan. If you have doubts, just watch the Yakuza lecture video now posted at the bottom of the Yakauza Wiki page...--Sean-Jin 00:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Korean Mafia/ Yakuza Update.

Korean Mafia consist five major player and organized criminal groups.

1) Korean Mafia/ Yakuza: Osaka, Ginza, Tokyo, Chiba, Japan. ( Members are Korean and Korean-Japanese): Korean Yakuza have connections with top three Japanese Yakuza's because many of the top three Japanese Yakuza's bosses are Korean or Korean origins.

2) North Korean Mafia: Organized, Discipline and Dangerous. North Korea, China, Russia, S.E. Asia, Eastern Europe.

3) South Korean Mafia: Organized in Province ( Family clan system) known in Korean " PA meaning family/ Clan" 1) Kyungsangdo ( PA), 2) Chollanamdo ( PA). Two biggest Korean mafia groups. Chollanamdo Mafia controls " Itaewon District in Seoul" whereas Kyungsangdo Mafia controls " Kangnam and North eastern part of Seoul".

4) Korean-Chinese Mafia: Organized and Dangerous. China, South Korea, Japan, Russia.

5) Korean-American Mafia: Organized and Dangerous. ( Hawaii, California, New York). ( Small but dangerous) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Korea4one (talk • contribs) 14:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The biggest Korean Mafia groups are 1) Cholla-Namdo ( Province Mafia): 80,000-90,000 Members, 2) Kyungsang-Namdo ( Province Mafia): 80,000-90,000 Members, 3) North Korean Mafia, 4) Korean-Chinese ( Chosunjok Mafia Northeast Manchuria).

Wikipedia says Korean-Yakuza is about 1,000 thousand members. How can this Korean Yakuza be fourth biggest group in Japan. 1) Korean-Yakuza has connections with ( Top 3 Yakuza groups) 2) Korean-Yakuza has Korean Peninsula Mafia ( Cholla group or Kyungsang group). 3) Korean-Yakuza has connections with ( North Korean Mafia and Korean-Chinese mafia). 4) Korean-Yakuza hires recruits from Korean Mafia groups. 5) Korean-Yakuza hires business related jobs. ( North Korean Mafia untraceable or Korean marines).


 * The article states that only 0.5% of Japan consists of ethnic Koreans. This is completely false. I don't know the exact numbers but there are certainly more ethnic Koreans than that. :: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.146.173.234 (talk) 18:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

here are your sources
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/gang/yakuza/3.html

yakuza groups ethnicly japanese that dont give membership to outside ethnic groups, there are korean yakuza members in japan but they are members of KOREAN yakuza only, besides the fact that korean organized crime in japan operates on a very small scale and has a limited amount of political power or muscle to solidify their position.

I'm afraid that there are MANY Koreans in Japanese crime families. Your single source does not clarify anything...--Sean-Jin 00:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

"current activities"
i think it should be added, that yakuza does business with kim jong il, it happens to be that kim uses north korean laborers to harvest drugs on large drug farms, and than smuggles party drugs such as methamphetmines and other drugs of the like to japan for yakuza groups to distribute i think its the most important thing to know about their current activites, i would label a source but i dont know the source i heard it on a news report on the television how a north korean boat was shot in japanese waters in a gun battle between local japanese patrol boats and the north korean boat smuggling the drugs that were found on the boat after it was sunk
 * Come back when you find a source. Search news sites, google, google news... Shinhan 11:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Japanese violent crime
It is often quoted that Japan has a low rate of violent crime compared to the Americas or Europe. Sometimes this is attributed to exposure to violent hentai, manga, cinema.

Could it be said that this low rate is linked to the semi-tolerance towards Yakuza. I mean, the Yaks don't want to stir the pond unless they are harassed. --Error 20:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

no you are wrong, hentai and pornography that is considered to "hardcore" is out lawed and bannedf
 * Not really. The only significant regulation that Japanese pornography has is that you have to obscure the genitals. Companies usually skirt around these laws by using slightly larger pixels to depict the characters genitals or simply using tentacles instead of penises (which just made Japanese pornography a hell of a lot more perverse). Their are mangas in japan dedicated to sexual content of shemales, children, monsters and rape. Sometimes all of the above in one. I don't think there is any other place in the world where the market for this kind of extreme content is that big. Other countries do have their fetishes, but what is currently happening in Japanese pornography is definitely unique.
 * I've seen it quoted that the low violent crime rate is partially driven by the Yakuza. Violent crime hurts tourism and hurting tourism hurts one of the sources of Yakuza income, so you don't mug people (especially tourists) in Japan unless you want the Yakuza to come have a word with you about the various interesting applications of cement and 20 feet of water.  (No idea if this is true, but it sounds reasonable.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.222.37.21 (talk) 17:47, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Original research, but I agree. --Timtak (talk) 09:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Name origins
Often, when an organization ends in -za, it's the character 座, meaning "seat", but also referring to a guild sort of organization. I was surprised to load up this page and see the word rendered only in kana; is it possible that the yakuza had their origins in some sort of guild (even a criminal organization or thieve's guild) using the word 座? LordAmeth 00:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Below we see the answer. Jidanni (talk) 02:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Mafia City Of Lost Heaven???
I played through the entire Mafia:City of Lost Heaven game and did not hear or see one reference to the Yakuza, can someone explain —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bull08 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

first of all, this post would be better on the mafia-lost heaven page....or did u post it there to? i was too lazy to check...secondly, this is a discussion board for the article not general discussion of the topic, but i do the same thing some times, so thats not too bad...thirdly, after briefly looking through the mafia-city of lost heaven page it looks as though this is because you were playing a game about the Italian-American Mafia no the Japanese Yakuza.

the north korean connection
someone should somehow introduce, (personally i think this is the most important thing and im astonished its not already here) about how kim jong il has massive drug farms where he uses human slave labor to produce methamphedemines, amphedemines, extacy many more party drugs, and heroin to ship and sell to yakuza groups in japan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.166.104.26 (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

Framed? Murder? Conspiracy?

 * Many believe (like Spaceman Gary Bell on 640 Toronto AM) that Yakuza framed O.J. Simpson for the murder of his ex-wife & her bud. Is that true?? Yrgh 08:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)yrgh
 * Gary Bell is the Howard Stern of the conspiracy world. Fun as hell to listen to, but there's a reason why he's in Canada. Shadowrun 17:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Could someone put a pronounciation of "yakuza" on the page? I've heard it pronounced both YA-ku-za and ya-KU-za. They both can't be right. 67.188.7.78 07:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess you can just watch the Yakuza video lecture that I just added at the bottom of the Yakuza page. The speaker says the word like 100 times....--Sean-Jin 00:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese language does not put more stress on any one syllable than another. The pronunciations YA-ku-za and ya-KU-za are both English bastardizations of the word. It should be ya-ku-za, with equal emphasis on each syllable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.175.63 (talk) 21:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Machii - something doesn't add up
Hi all. Sorry I'm new to this, but I just read the article and it says that Machii was born in 1923 and died in 2002. However, it also says that he retired in his 80'ties... Unless I suck at math, he'd only be 79 years old.

Name in Kanji
The introduction only gives the name in kana. Could someone with knowledge of conversational Japanese look at this? I don't know whether that's the norm, but it looks like it would be unusual. Leushenko 19:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Kana is the conventional way to write it. The name's derived from numbers but I've never seen it spelled with kanji numbers. You can click on the 日本語 link in the sidebar to see how it's done on the Japanese language wikipedia. Doctor Sunshine   talk  21:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

There is no kanji for yakuza per etymology. The name comes from a hand in a game of hanafuda consisting of an 8 (ya), 9 (ku), and 3 (za). The numbers add up to 0, the lowest hand you can have in the game, and thus the loser. So goes the etymology that they called themselves 8-9-3 or ya-ku-za in self-depreciation.--75.17.113.9 (talk) 04:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think that they call themselves by this name. It is a name by which they are called by others. What is the name for a bad hand in poker? A duff/dudd/rotten hand? It is like calling someone that. --218.223.197.215 (talk) 11:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * OK then please mention that in the article, else the reader goes nuts trying to guess what does Ya+kuza or Yaku+za mean. Jidanni (talk) 02:15, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately I can't remember where I've read that, but in this game in question, not the value of the cards but the horizontal checksum counts (which, by the way, cannot equal 0...), so 8-9-3 is a hand that looks much at first but isn't worth anything. Hence the meaning in slang, a useless person with big blowhard appearance, the term first being aplied to them, later taken over by them. Hope I will come across that reference again, but should be mentioned in any book about them. Sam195 (talk) 09:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

crests
thanx for adding these -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  20:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki
Якудза —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.36.56 (talk) 19:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

1300000??????
Are there really that many or is this a mistake?

Over 1% of the people in Japan are members of a criminal organization?

--209.195.93.219 (talk) 04:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The number was altered by a vandal. I've corrected it and replaced the reference as blogs don't qualify as a reliable source. Doctor Sunshine   talk  07:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

removing film and video game ... arbitrary and ... OR
Citing references is not prohibited original research. Every article in Wikipedia aims to find sources about a topic, and editors must make determinations whether sources are pertinent or not. In particular, deleting the reference to Limosin's documentary Young Yakuza merely because other documentaries about yakuza might exist seemed especially unhelpful.

That said, there might be an undue weight problem. If someone can find a secondary source on the portrayal of yakuza in pop culture (a magazine article, etc.) that'd definitely be appropriate for this article. But as for primary sources, other than the documentary, the list is just too long for inclusion in a general article on yakuza, and might be more appropriate as a category. Perhaps a subcategory of Category:Organized crime fiction. Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 01:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

"a quarter of the shogun"
From the Origins section: "the hatamoto-yakko or Kabuki-mono of the 17th century Genroku Era, who were derivative classes of the low-rank hatamoto, which resembled a quarter of the shogun." I would translate this into English, but I have little idea what it is meant to mean. The hatamoto were high ranking, and did not resemble a fraction of the shogun. Maproom (talk) 17:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

SHINOBI
I am thankful for the game we have played over the last 27 years... To think, we became SHINOBI...

All are to wake, as I am waking... We now have really useful skills under the game some have called "OESHIKI". But I know as SHINOBI... AND WE ARE NOW SHINOBI BY LAW!!! My friends, you are my family, you are my people... AWAKE FOR TAHO!!!

202.124.89.224 (talk) 08:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Yak?
Are we sure that Yak is a term for the Gokudou? "Yak" is not even pronouncable in Japanese since consonants are always followed by a vowel. Does this mean that the gokudou are called "Yaku" in Japan? I have not heard of that expression. I would not recommend mentioning it at the beginning of the article but "Yachan" may be a demeaning term for a member of the gokudou. Why mention a demeaning term for a group at the top of the article? Incidentally, "Yakuza" is itself a demeaning term. The members themselves refer to themselves as "gokudou" or "Kyoukaku" (the latter term I have not heard used but it is in the Japanese wikipedia article). I am removing the "Yak" reference because I think it is, inaccurate, unsupported, and (why should an article start with a derogatory term?) out of place. --Timtak (talk) 13:29, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Too much credit where credit's abundant
"The leadership levels of yakuza gangs usually consist of very sharp, cunning, intelligent men, as the process to rise to the top-levels in the yakuza can be very competitive and Machiavellian." First of all, sharp and cunning are synonyms, so I'll be cutting that bit. Secondly, I don't feel it's encyclopedic to call someone "smart" without it being part of a quotation - it's pretty much the same as calling someone pretty. Someone else delete that if they feel the same way. DiscreteBeyondreason (talk) 00:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Conflicting interests?
According to the article:
 * Another Yakuza racket is bringing women of other ethnicities/races, especially East European[15] and Asian[15] to Japan under the lure of a glamourous position, then forcing the women into prostitution.[citation needed]


 * Because of their history as a legitimate feudal organization and their connection to the Japanese political system through the uyoku (extreme right-wing political groups), yakuza are somewhat a part of the Japanese establishment.

So we are to believe that the Yakuza aide non-Japanese immigration to Japan, while at the same time have connections to "extreme right-wing" (a.k.a nationalist) political organizations? Don't the uyoku object to these Yakuza business endeavors?--XO^10 (talk) 14:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Yakuza...?
I've challenged the source of the first paragraph...NPA (National Police Agency)and the document has been pulled. Yet, The incorrect information remains and my edits are deleted. Use common since when reading this page...if they can't tell you the meaning of Yakuza then they shouldn't be writing about it.

Here is the facts;== The Yakuza Name == Ya-Ku-Za (“eight-nine-three”), is a worthless hand in a Japanese card game named (Oicho-Kabu) that is similar to Black Jack (twenty-one). In translation, Yakuza means "good for nothing". They are members of bōryokudan ("tough gang"). In the early 16th century, Samurai's were struggling to feed their families thus creating bōryokudan.

To find out more about this subject go to a different source. --Mr. Kenshiro (talk) 01:59, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Glamorizing of the Yakuza
Please write more about the actual criminal activities of the Yakuza such as human trafficking, instead of buying into the glamorous image the media portrays.

Quite franky, the whole article reads like a fanboy wrote it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.1.5 (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Number of Yakuza
In the opening paragraph: "They are very prevalent in the Japanese media and operate internationally with an estimated 80,900 members". In the section on Syndicates: "there are thought to be more than 103,000 active yakuza members in Japan today". My only interpretation is that the first number refers only to Yakuza not in Japan. However, to me this is by no means made clear--and if this interpratation is correct, then why only mention the one and not the other number in the opening paragraph? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liversounds (talk • contribs) 23:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

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