Talk:Zliten uprising

UNSC Forces
It says that the UNSC forces are on the Rebels' side helping, but I see no mentions of it elsewhere. Although the UNSC forces are helping the Rebels' in the entire war, I'm not so sure that their helping them in this specific battle. Are they helping them in this battle? Đ  ARKJEDI   10   23:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge
Nothing suggest that it is a separated event. This focus by Reuters press agency ( http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE75B0EM20110613?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0 ) is saying the contrary and basically shows that the rebels of Misrata are pushing toward Zliten and are trying to create an uprsining in this city but that no important battle have happenned.

We should not multiply articles about related events. --Geromasis (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. Against this specific merger, Zlitan is separate from Misrata. EkoGraf (talk) 18:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge: No independant proof on a battle inside Zliten and the Misrata frontline is very close to Zliten. A separate article is not needed for such close events. It would be like splitting Nafusa campaign article into Zintan, Yefran, Nalut articles. --Geromasis (talk) 19:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge. Not sure about the title to give the merged article, but it's clearly part of the same operation. — Nightstallion 15:09, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose this merge, but other comment: I would say that rather than putting this under "Misrata frontline" when it is looking like it is developing into something else, we should merge Misrata frontline with Battle of Misrata (under subpage title of "continued loyalist attacks on outskirts of city" or something like that). "Misrata frontline" (aside from being potentially time-based) is quite clearly not a separate event from the continuation of Gaddhafite attacks on the city itself (launching missiles, for example). Zliten meanwhile is developing in a separate direction, as the rebel advance is associated with a resurgence of rebels within the city. --Yalens (talk) 15:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge under new name Call it the Battle of Misurata and Zliten and offer as alternative name at the top of the article (e.g. "also referred to as") the Second Battle of Misurata or the Battle of the Misurata Frontline. Solved American Civil War article style. A good compromise, no? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.22.215 (talk) 03:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. The fighting around Dafiyah-Naimah and Tawarga is separate from the fighting within Zliten. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 14:57, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It is absolute not separate. Read the link I gave. The small skirmishes in Zliten have been created by Misrata fighters and their advance. This is completely related events. And the events in Zliten itself don't deserve a page alone for the moment. Merging with Misrata frontline is really needed.--Geromasis (talk) 16:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * @Geromasis:The problem I personally have with "Misrata frontline" is that it is becoming no longer the Misrata frontline and more along the lines of the "Zliten, Dafniya and Tawarga frontline"... perhaps we could have instead: Misrata -> Tripoli rebel offensive (Misrata to Dafniya, Dafniya to Zliten now, I believe their destination is intended to be Tripoli ultimately) and then the other being Misrata->Sirte offensive (through Tawarga)... I do sense a problem with this though, too, because at least in Zliten, the thing has an element of being a separate uprising of Zliten's inhabitants then followed by a rebel reinforcement. Still though, the two campaigns idea (Misrata->Tripoli and Misrata to Sirte) might work right now. --Yalens (talk) 18:16, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The thing is most news sources, if not all, regard both Dafniya and Tawarga as part of the Misrata frontline. Also, they even regard Dafniya as a suburb of Misrata, which it is in a sence. Those fighting in Zliten are not from Misrata or Dafniya. They are people from Zliten who came to the Misratans for training and weapons and than went back to Zliten to stage an uprising within the city. If there is an all-out battle for Zliten started by the rebels from Misrata than we will close the article Misrata frontline with the result of that battle being the start of the Battle for Zliten, which has not started yet. There is around 30 kilometers between Zliten and Dafniya. The Misratan rebels are currently 30 kilometers from Zliten. Yes, they did manage to get some 10 kilometers to from the outskirts of Zliten over the weekend but they were again forced to pull back to Misrata after the leaflet warning about helicopters. So most of the fighting on the frontline is going on at the moment in the Misrata district. EkoGraf (talk) 21:22, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yalens, the frontline is way way more closer to Misrata than to Tripoli or Syrte and rebels are not really moving a lot since 3 weeks. The frontline is near Zliten and in the east it does not seem to move much. What I say is that the events in Zliten are related to the events of Misrata and that they are so close it can be merged into one article.--Geromasis (talk) 09:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Comment So everybody wants to merge it with something else, nobody wants to merge it with the same thing. :D EkoGraf (talk) 15:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. The issue here is clearly separate from the fighting on the frontline, in that it is an uprising, albeit one that failed. There is enough detail to constitute a separate article and the separate article contributes to the overall contextualization of developments in the war Grant bud (talk) 12:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Is there any fighting in Zliten?
Reuters (June 14th): They (the Rebels) seized the town of Kikla, 150 km (90 miles) southwest of Tripoli, after government troops fell back, and pushed several km (miles) west of their Misrata stronghold to the outskirts of government-held Zlitan, Reuters photographers said. I think thar, or the uprising in Zliten was defaected or there wasn´t any uprising and there were only some clashes. --Ave César Filito (talk) 21:44, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it was a raid just like the one in Zawiyah and it was too defeated. Hmmm I think maybe this should be merged with the Zawiyah raid and Sabha clashes? EkoGraf (talk) 01:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

not exactly "defeated". They made a nearly full withdrawal back to Naima/dafinya border because NATO dropped flyers in the area where they were, meaning that rebels were extremely open to an attack accidently by NATO itself. They have to stay within "the red lines" if they want NATO support. Sopher99 (talk) 01:27, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7370043n This may help explain. Sopher99 (talk) 01:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I was talking about the group that conducted the raid within the city, not the guys from Dafniya (outside the city). There has been no word from them for five days now. They must have suffered the same fate as the group in Zawiyah, with which contact was also lost. EkoGraf (talk) 03:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Doubt it - those guys I personally have been hearing from every week, via the social networks. The contact in Zawiya never was lost, he "insisted" fighting was still ongoing, which we knew it hardly was. I would not place much hope on Zliten locals taking Zliten it is now like saying brega locals can take brega, given how intensely Zliten is fortified with troops now.Zenithfel (talk) 05:32, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I was talking about the current raids, they have obviously been stopped in their tracks. EkoGraf (talk) 15:04, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

There are no raids in Zliten, as the ones are like in Zawiya. Zawiya raids occur every week, only that time they actually got a hold of territory, but lost it. Zliten rebels never got a hold of permanent territory. When they reported control of some area of Zliten, they were actually referring to The Tuesday market neighborhood, a suburb a little west of naimah. Zenithfel (talk) 15:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Correction they still hold a corner portion of the city of Zliten itself, but are currently under artillery fire:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/15/misrata-rebel-leader-appeal-nato Journalists who got 4 miles (6-7km) close to zliten personally saw gaddafi's forces shelling the city of Zliten itself.

Zenithfel (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Pro-Gaddafi victory?
apparently, as this article suggests rebels did make some gains near the city center.And the source article says they are "struggling".That's not the same as defeat.174.91.109.171 (talk) 20:43, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The source that suggested that rebels made some gains near the city center is from a week ago. The BBC article is from a few days ago and more up-to-date. The BBC article was quite clear it was talking about the uprising from a week ago (by stating that more than 20 rebels were killed). The rebel commander-in-hidding has described the CURRENT situation as being that they have ran out of ammunition and they can not put up any resistance and can only wait the Misrata rebels to rescue them. Quoting the commander ''The situation is going bad. Nothing good. Food is not available, and fuel also not available. Every day they [Gaddafi's forces] are arresting people - they have checkpoints everywhere; every 100m they will check you. There is no fighting, because we finished everything here. We don't have military equipment...We are waiting for things to change from outside Zlitan - we are waiting for Misrata rebels to come."''. EkoGraf (talk) 22:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe I read it wrong when they said earlier rebellion, I didn't know any casualty figures.174.91.109.171 (talk) 00:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems that recently there were more clashes, with the rebels claiming they made it to the city center (doubtful, yes, but still notable). --Yalens (talk) 19:46, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

This article is about the uprising from mid-June, anything apart from that is irrelevant for this article since it is not part of this specific event. EkoGraf (talk) 05:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

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