Template talk:Cellular network standards

Channel access methods
Extreme care should be made when referring to channel access methods. Channel access methods are not synonymous with a particular network's standardized use of a channel access method. For instance, UTRA TDD-HCR is a standardized version (by 3GPP) of a TD-CDMA using TDD. Lots of times, though, a channel access method is patented and is therefore used exclusively by a particular network/standardizing group. This makes it seem as if the two are synonymous, but in reality they aren't. I'm almost tempted to pull the "channel access methods" section out of this template and make a template for just them. Mojodaddy (talk) 04:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Using consistent terminology
I've noticed on a lot of pages the word "phone" is being used instead of the word "telecommunications". For example, an article might say "mobile phone network" instead of "mobile telecommunications network". Given that the standardizing organizations (3GPP, 3GPP2, OMA, ETSI) specifically do not define the word "phone", do not refer to generic user equipment as "phones", and the telecommunications networks support a variety of end user devices that are not "phones", per se, I suggest that we use the word as sparingly as possible. As such, I believe that this page should be renamed to "Mobile telecommunications standards". Mojodaddy (talk) 17:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Frequency bands
Under "frequency bands" in the "mobile phone standards" template it shows GSM and PCS... GSM is not a frequeny band, its a technology, and other systems can be employed in the cellular (800-900mhz) band. I think it should say SMR, Cellular, and PCS, as those are the current band division names according to the FCC. I am making the change, if there is dispute because of standards in other countries we should discuss and expand the template. --Wesman83 17:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The most neutral would be to simply list them as freqencies. - Keith D. Tyler &para; (AMA) 17:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well the only problem is that other countries have different ranges for each mobile band, as well as, presumably, different names. I certainly think its fair that all countries systems are represented... this should certainly be discussed more. I will look into it and I hope there will be more feedback in the meantime. --Wesman83 18:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

3.9995G - No fractional generations, please!
Should 3G standards really be broken up into 3.5G, 3.75G, etc? The g.xx numbering made some sort of sense for the 2G categories (2G = circuit switched, 2.5G = 2G with packet switching, 2.75G = "Packet switching at so-called 3G speeds but still, essentially, a slow packet switched bolt-on to a 2G network"), but here we seem to just be saying "Oh, this is slightly faster than the former ones."

What do you do with something like EVDO which is the same name, but subject to revisions that make it faster, with a system like that? If UMTS is still UMTS, but HSDPA makes it faster, is it really a new system simply because you have a name for the enhancement?

If the 2.xxG terms were used, surely 3.5G would be 3G with VoIP, and 3.75G would be a 4G system supporting VoIP but using an underlying 3G standard?

They come across as a little arbitrary and subjective. Perhaps something based upon speed might work better and be more informative, eg:

I admit a bias against "3G" as a term anyway, given it's more marketing than anything else, but at the same time I could see the logic of the 2.xxG categories which I don't think applies here. Arguably the 2G section could usefully be reorganized along similar lines, except people in real life are using terms like "2.5G". Squiggleslash 16:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I too dont like the 3.5G, 3.75G ecspecially as HSOPA should now be added to 3.875G. It's on the roadmap after HSUPA (now 3.75G) and before 4G. Should we just add all these HSxPAs into 3.5G and leave them there?--Darin-0 10:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

If I were to reorganize the section according to my proposal, where would you want it? Under Improvements, or maybe "4G convergance"? Also from what I was reading of your (very informative, thanks!) HSOPA article, it looks like it's not a W-CDMA tweak like HS[DU]PA, but an entirely new air interface system for UMTS. Is this a correct characterisation? Do you support reworking the 3G part of the template the way I suggest?

(I'm also thinking of putting explanations after 2.5G (2G with packet switching) and 2.75G (2.5G with 3G technologies) so that these terms are more explicit too.)

Let me know what you think, Squiggleslash 14:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I like your approach Squiggleslash. --Darin-0 15:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

What is a fractional generation? Who is it between your mother and your grandmother that is 2.5G? It's just mindless markettingspeak and hype. Nowadays eveyone has to have a fractional generation because otherwise it's just not progress, is it? Obviously I agree with the above, but I think here, it needs to be taken further. Generations are identified in retrospect or are marked by broad changes in technology. They aren't dictated by phone companies or mobile handset makers. I remeber years ago when the local junior mobile phone company trumpeted their new 3G network (circa 1998) - becuase they were using 1800MHz GSM instead of 900MHz! 4G networks abound all over the world if you believe press releases. We don't have to play along, we're in search of truth and rational discourse, not marketing drivel. An article referring to the practice is one thing, having in our mobile infobox is another. Darkov 23:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * After reading this, and employing careful consideration, I've merged the inter-generational groups together. What do the rest of you guys think? InternetMeme (talk) 00:59, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

HSOPA / HSPA+
HSOPA is only a part of 3GPP Long Term Evolution (or 3GPP release 8). Indeed it's only a proposal not yet accepted by 3GPP. HSOPA is never mentioned in any 3GPP document. HSOPA name is often incorrectly used for HSPA+, a new high speed standard that will be published next months under 3GPP release 7. HSPA+ name is used on many 3GPP official documents. I know there is not an article on HSPA+ but template is correct deleting HSOPA (subject to be covered by 3GPP Long Term Evolution) and adding HSPA+ that is to be standardized soon in 3GPP release 7. Comments are welcome. Armando82 13:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that HSOPA and the on-going LTE Rev. 8's E-UTRA are slightly different (I thought they were related at first too because ), and HSOPA is a proposed air interface for Rev. 7, being considered a transition technology to Rev. 8, which is why it's being referred to as part of the 3G standards. Bear in mind LTE is effectively throwing out/refactoring the whole of UMTS and doing yet another rewrite, much as UMTS did with GSM. My guess would be that HSOPA is a proposed HSPA+ but I haven't found a specific spec for what HSPA+ is.

Because much of this is up for discussion, there's no clear direction as to where things are going, and terminology is regularly changing.

Either way though, there shouldn't be a link in the template to an article that doesn't exist. HSPA+ shouldn't be in the template. If you want to remove HSOPA, then I have no objection (especially as it's not clear anything called HSOPA will ever be deployed) but I think replacing it with HSPA+ shouldn't be done until there is an HSPA+ (or eHSPA) article. My primary objections to your edit were:


 * HSOPA isn't LTE
 * HSPA+ isn't an article (yet)

At the very least, we need an HSPA+ article before we include it in the table, and HSOPA should never be considered LTE. --Squiggleslash 13:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

WiBro
I think WiMAX should have a sub-node for "WiBro" as it's a different standard that is being harmonized with WiMAX. Thoughts? JackSeoul 06:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Title link
I changed the link in the title of the table. Earlier, it was redirecting to the Mobile phone article. I changed it to link to List of mobile phone standards. I think that's more relevant. On the other hand, I guess that's basically just this table, in the form of an article. Feel free to change it again. Navigatr85 20:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

HSCSD and GPRS
HSCSD has speed of up to 38.4 Kbps and GPRS up to 114 Kbps. By speed, position of HSCSD would be after GSM, instead of after GPRS. --Mac (talk) 18:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Navbox
This infobox-based template is very disturbing in the articles. Let us base it on Navbox instead...--Kozuch (talk) 10:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, this would be a pretty intrusive box to slap in a page. I would really agree with User:Kozuch that a nav box would work better, something similar to Template:Aircraft components in shape. - Ahunt (talk) 13:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be perfect if you could make a proposal for a new navbox-based version! You have lots of experience with that, it would take me ages to get it done myself :(.--Kozuch (talk) 13:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I've created several navbox versions seen below. Please identify which is the most appropriate and/or provide suggestions for changes in this section. Thanks. Mojodaddy (talk) 18:52, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I think #1 is great, simple and not too cluttered. #2 is artful, but harder to use for a reader who isn't familiar with the subject matter to know all the abbrevs. - Ahunt (talk) 20:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally I like #2, the callapsible subsections are just really cool! But #1 seems to be easier for the average Joe Wikepedian to use, which is desirable here probably. As I am obsessed with badly-designed templates, I found another candidate - IPstack slowly needs some navboxing too, in case someone is interested ;).--Kozuch (talk) 21:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll switch it over to #1, then.Mojodaddy (talk) 02:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for very fast help with navbox transition!--Kozuch (talk) 10:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Merge
I have now merged Wireless systems into Mobile telecommunications standards according to a discussion at WP:TFD in October. Wireless systems was only about mobile system generations, and not about other wireless systems. However, I used mobile standard generations as categories, and standard families as sub-categories instead of the oposite. This gives it a chronological order, which makes it more clear to follow. Next step is to remove all occurences of Wireless systems, or replace them by Mobile telecommunications standards. Mange01 (talk) 14:03, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Debresser (talk) 18:17, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I disapprove of the merge, because it created more confusion, especially with fractional generations. I am aware that fractional generations are informal, but they are important in helping non-technical people understand the differences between standards and generations. -Mardus (talk) 10:36, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Should "Ultra Mobile Broadband" be included?
Should "Ultra Mobile Broadband" be included? Adammw (talk) 13:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


 * UMB is a.k.a. CDMA2000 1x EV-DO Revision C, correct? It was worked on by Qualcomm and/or the CDMA Development Group but abandoned. Was it abandoned before a standards body like the TIA, ETSI or the ITU etc. accepted/approved it as a standard? If it was never actually accepted as a standard, then I wouldn't be in favor of including it here. (I couldn't find any references indicating that it did become an accepted standard, but I didn't look very hard, either.) Ch Th Jo (talk) 23:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Autocollapsed
In my opinion this template should be expanded by default. At least on pages about cellular network standards. See also Talk:4G. PizzaMan (♨♨) 21:07, 18 December 2015 (UTC)