Template talk:Daredevil

Scope
While the idea of a navbox for the important article relating to Daredevil is a good idea, that does not mean that everything gets included.

Things such as:
 * Characters that have appeared but are not intrinsic to the Daredevil mythos:
 * Luke Cage
 * Iron Fist
 * Jessica Jones
 * Punisher
 * Spider-Man
 * Red linked characters and most stub articles:
 * Milla Donovan (stub)
 * Heather Glenn
 * Glorianna O'Breen
 * Sister Maggie
 * Turk
 * Minor villains, or villains "borrowed" from the mythos of other characters:
 * Absorbing Man (Thor)
 * Bushwacker (Minor)
 * Crusher II (Minor, with a naming problem)
 * Electro (Spider-Man)
 * Leap-Frog (Minor)
 * Man-Bull (Minor)
 * Real world locations
 * Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan
 * Sections of article already listed
 * Powers, abilities and equipment (It's in the DD article)
 * Fictional character biography
 * Publication history
 * Bibliography
 * Television shows where the character made single appearances (all of them)
 * Films that are either cameos or variants
 * Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (2001) (cameo, at best)
 * Daredevil: The Director's Cut (2003) (variant)
 * Video games where the character isn't the focus, or are red links (all again)
 * Miscellaneous items that are non-notable (the soundtrack albums)

Are fan-cruft things that make the 'box unwieldy and almost unusable and should not be included.

Also, some restraint should be used with the creators, paring that down to those writers and artists that really did add to or mold the character, not just "carry on" with the same old same old.

I'm going to be bold and weed both the box and where it's been placed. Frankly, the 'box shouldn't windup on every page, just what it lists.

- J Greb (talk) 15:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not it's a "real world" location, Hells Kitchen (as opposed to New York in general) is still, an otherwise significant and important part of Daredevil's forklore/mythos. The Director's Cut version of the Daredevil movie is an officially, authorized film (as opposed to a fan edit), which is why I put it there. Also, I don't see the big deal about soundtrack albums being there. They have their own articles on Wikipedia, so it shouldn't hurt to include them in the "Misc." section. TMC1982 8:34 p.m., 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hell's Kitchen - Fair enough that the are is highly important to the Daredevil mythos, but Daredevil, as well as all of the other characters and stories in the 'box, is of negigable importance to the real place. That's why the Hell's Kirchen article should be wikilinked within the text of the Dardevil article, as well as the othe articles where the setting is mentioned. Inclusion in the box isn't needed.
 * Directors cut - Arguable, but until it gets folded back into the main article on the movie not really worth fighting over.
 * The soundtracks - The big deal is that they are cruft that lack notability, are just play lists, and have almost nil importance to the mythos. Adding them to the box is just adding clutter.
 * - J Greb (talk) 23:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

"Minor" villains"
Why should the fact that you think otherwise obscure villains (in your point of view) merit being in the section!? As long as they're primarily associated with Daredevil and otherwise vital parts in that character's long history, people should be allowed to learn. TMC1982 8:46 p.m., 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Bluntly? Because by that logic any character DD faced gets added making the 'box unwieldy and pure clutter on the irrelevant, minor appearance characters. Best suggestion: create a "List of foes" article which will cover the minor stuff and add that to the template.
 * Also - using a red that is almost black renders black text illegible. - J Greb (talk) 12:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

It's in red because that's Daredevil's main color (duh). It's just like why I made the Iron Man template red and yellow. You should be lucky, the entire section isn't in crimson red. And why don't you create the list of foes. Heck, my eyes don't hurt that much by looking at it (only you seem to want to complain). I don't like it when people make edits without any real compromise. TMC1982 2:51 p.m., 2 January 2008 (UTC)

And how in the hell is adding maybe two or three additional villains' names creating "clutter" to an already large section!? Like I said, I only added characters who are mostly centric in Daredevil's individual universe. If I added a Spider-Man enemy then maybe I could better understand where you were getting to. TMC1982 2:54 p.m., 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Color - Basic visual communications: Do not create something that is meant to be read that cannot be. Using a deep red, while appropriate to the character, make black or dark colored text exceedingly hard, if not impossible to read. If you can read it, fine, I applaud your superior than human eyesight. That dose not change the fact that for general use the color choice is about the worst you could pick.
 * Villains - Same comments as with the Iron Man template: Stick with the recognizable signature characters. IF you really feel that there is value in informing readers of everyone DD has faced, do the list, a 'box isn't the place for it.
 * Compromise - Part of the foundation of this place is that compromise will be found after editing starts. Just because you posed it does not mean other editors have to ask to edit it or seek consensus before they boldly have at it. Right now, since there is contention over the content of the box, I'm sticking to the talk page instead of punctuating talk comments with edits to the template content or just editing without comment as I've seen other editors do.
 * And the color isn't content. - J Greb (talk) 00:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't regard myself as a major expert on Daredevil. I for the most part, took what appeared/was listed on the main page for the character himself when the time came to listing his enemies. TMC1982 4:27 p.m., 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Protected
This template has been semi-protected in an effort to get annom editors to discuss the addition of minor characters or characters that are not solely Daredevil related.

Thanks,

- J Greb (talk) 23:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Lady Bullseye
I added her to the template; as I see it, she's intended to be a fairly significant character for the next little while, and, unlike some other villains added in the past, she's clearly an identifiable Daredevil rogue, being a distaff of another character already in the template.CaptainCanada (talk) 21:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Template too wide
This template is wider than the articles and the template is hard to see without scrolling and some articles you can't scroll through all of the template. I think the width of it needs to be changed just a little. Captain Virtue (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC).

Television appearances
The character we are dealing with here appeared in an episode of the cartoon series Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends (1981-1983), "Attack of the Arachnoid," which the episode list labels as Episode 20, in Season 3. There are no individual airdates, and the season breakdowns are dubious (Season 1 = 13 episodes, 2 = 3 (!) eps., & 3 = 8; I really suspect that the last two are actually one season). I'm getting mixed signals about this, however. Does he appear in Daredevil costume, or only as attorney Matt Murdock representing Spider-Man? However, I feel that it does belong here in the category Television appearances. BTW, so does an appearance in the 1990s Fantastic Four cartoon series. This, "And a Blind Man Shall Lead Them," is listed as the first episode of the second season (14th overall), aired on September 23, 1995. At best, we can link to the top of the relevant season in each episode list article (as I made the two list links here) and then pipe them to resemble the links to the two later Spider-Man series' episodes, but I feel they count. And maybe the category should be renamed Animated appearances, since The Trial of the Incredible Hulk definitely constitutes a "television appearance." Any other opinions? --Tbrittreid (talk) 21:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Dakota North
Should Dakota North belong in this template?


 * I think that she should. I realize templates are not based on appearance counts, but she is more of a Daredevil supporting character than anything else. Most current readers of Daredevil might not even realize her first appearance was before her first appearance in Daredevil. Kingpin was originally a Spider-Man villain ,but he belongs on the Daredevil template because of the extensive use he has seen in Daredevil comic books. Spidey  104  19:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I get hung up on "Most current readers of Daredevil..." I'm sorry, but this is a general use encyclopedia, not on targeted soley at comic book readers or the more limited audience of readers/fans of Daredevil. For the most part, the character isn't generally know by the Daredevil appearances, but as a "Marvel" character, unlike Kingpin.
 * It should also be worth noting that, based on the current article, it's a minor (borderline on being called a very minor) character which does not meet WP:GNG.
 * - J Greb (talk) 19:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Being a "general use encyclopedia" makes the reader all that more important. A navbox should link to characters the reader might be interested based on articles also included in the navbox. Spidey  104  01:48, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and no.
 * How far does a well meaning editor push the "this should be in there"? To the point that the majority of the Marvel character articles listed because Daredevil, or one of the ever expanding cast, appeared in the book or with the character? To the point that all of the writers, artists, editors, actors, directors, programmers, etc. that have worked on something including one of the characters in the template? No, there is a limit to what is acceptable or appropriate. Some of them are pretty clear - such as not populating the 'box with all the bios. Some, such as the characters, aren't.
 * With the characters, we should make a distinction between the ones that are intrinsic to the topic and the ones that aren't. Ones such as signature foe or friends (Urich, Foggy, Bullseye, Owl, Kingpin) are obvious. Even the lesser characters that were created for Daredevil and were used either solely or predominantly in relation to the title character's stories can be fair choices. Minor characters and/or characters borrowed from other series have high bars to hit. One is if the article even meets GNG or if it is something other than a plot dump. The other... Daredevil actually has one of the gold standards in Kingpin. a character created for Spider-Man, but became as well known for appearing in Daredevil stories. Black Widow comes close to that. Dakota North doesn't. Putting that article feels a lot like an editorial push - driving readers from the core topic to something on the fringe of it if not outside of it entirely.
 * - J Greb (talk) 02:36, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that settles the debate; Dakota North should not be included in this template. Spidey  104  01:00, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2014
add spider-man to supporting characters

129.49.11.178 (talk) 00:18, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 13:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2015
redirect Black Widow link to Black Widow (Natasha Romanova)

47.16.65.193 (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done. Clicking on Black Widow in the template navbox redirects to Black Widow (Natasha Romanova). /wia   /tlk  21:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2017
Just a typo. In "Other Media" the link is correct but it says "vide game" instead of "video game"

Change to ** Daredevil (video game) 24.46.196.167 (talk) 22:34, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Daredevil (vide game)
 * Fixed, thanks for pointing it out.★Trekker (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 September 2018
Add Alexander Bont to Other supervillains category. 73.241.137.71 (talk) 18:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 18:33, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Nightwing
Any idea why Nightwing is in the Related Articles section? He doesn't seem to have any relation to Daredevil outside of their connection with Batman. Spiderchad (talk) 11:24, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020
In " Florian Régnier (talk) 13:24, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  JTP (talk • contribs) 13:59, 16 March 2020 (UTC)