Template talk:Iron Man

Scope
While the idea of a navbox for the important article relating to Daredevil is a good idea, that does not mean that everything gets included.

Things such as:
 * Characters that have appeared but are not intrinsic to the Daredevil mythos:
 * Century (Avengers)
 * Cybermancer (Avengers)
 * Hawkeye (Avengers)
 * Moonraker (Avengers, if that since this is a stub of a stub)
 * Scarlet Witch (Avengers, X-Men)
 * Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter)
 * U.S. Agent (Avengers, Captain America)
 * Wonder Man (Avengers)
 * Red linked characters and most stub articles:
 * H.O.M.E.R.
 * Yin Sin
 * Minotaur
 * Wong Chu
 * Minor villains, or villains "borrowed" from the mythos of other characters:
 * Advisor (Minor)
 * Black Widow (Avengers)
 * Crimson Cowl (Avengers)
 * Crusher I (Minor, with a naming problem)
 * Dark Aegis (Minor)
 * Godzilla
 * Grey Gargoyle (Thor)
 * Griffin (Minor)
 * Hypnotia (Minor)
 * Immortus (Avengers)
 * Man-Bull (Minor)
 * Stilt-Man (Daredevil)
 * Sunset Bain (Machine Man)
 * Whirlwind (Avengers)
 * Sections of article already listed
 * Powers and abilities (It's in the Iron Man article)
 * Fictional character biography
 * Bibliography
 * Television shows where the character made single appearances (almost all of them) as well as episode lists
 * Films that are either cameos or part of an ensemble cast (again, almost all of them)
 * Video games where the character isn't the focus, or are red links (almost all again)
 * Publications where the character isn't the focus.
 * Miscellaneous items that are non-notable (the species stub)

Are fan-cruft things that make the 'box unwieldy and almost unusable and should not be included.

I'm going to be bold and weed both the box and where it's been placed. Frankly, the 'box shouldn't windup on every page, just what it lists.

- J Greb (talk) 15:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree about the video games portion. Captain America and the Avengers was the very first game in which Iron Man was a playable character. Just because he wasn't the "main" focus, doesn't automatically mean that his contributions were marginal. Also the Marvel Superheroes TV program was the first show of any kind to feature Iron Man. Since he got his own segment (as opposed to a mere cameo), this show ought to be included. TMC1982 7:51 p.m., 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * (Relocation of comments by TMC1982)
 * - (H.O.M.E.R. was a character featured on the 1990s Iron Man cartoon series. He was an artificial intellegence assistant of Tony Stark's)
 * - I included Avengers characters because they were apart of Force Works, a spin-off team lead by Iron Man.


 * First, please show enough respect of other editors to not add you comments in such a way as to make it looks like they posted your words.
 * Second, navboxes are for moving between articles that are fundamentally linked to the 'box's topic. The intent is to keep that topic tight so that, especially with comic book topics, the 'box doesn't wind up with all the articles from a company included.
 * That being said, you have a fair point with Marvel Superheroes. But that's about it.
 * Including games or team just because Iron Man is one character among many again opens the 'box up to including the lion's share of Marvel related articles. The logic that pulls in Force Works and its members also pulls in the Avenges (team and members since Stark bankrolled the team), S.H.I.L.D. (Since he is the Director), the Initiative, the Order, the Illuminati (his pet projects) and so on. The ensemble video games and team books are not Iron Man vehicles, they shouldn't be in the 'box.
 * On another note... tweaked the colors to prevent potential eye strain. - J Greb (talk) 04:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Force Works however, were prominately featured on the 1990s Iron Man series (during the first season at least) as opposed to the other teams you mentioned. TMC1982 8:55 p.m., 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Adding sub sections for better organization...

Teams
As with the villains, using the show is not a good argument for putting a team like Force Works and the characters that made it up into the box. Yes, the show was divorced from the Avengers material, but the majority of the Force Works article is about the comic book material. That is a continuation of the West Coast Avengers making it more an Avengers topic than an Iron Man one.

And the inclusion of the Avenger movies has a similar problem, they are not Iron Man topics, they are Avengers topics. Including them in this 'box is out of place as including the article on the Avengers itself.

- J Greb (talk) 23:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Important storylines
Important storylines are just that, story lines, arcs, not anthology series and in most cases, not ongoing titles. And definitely not story arcs that focus on another character or the Marvel Universe as a whole.

Are Iron Man and Sub-Mariner and Tales of Suspense important to Iron Man? Yes. Are the Iron Man topics? No. It doesn't matter if it's where the character first appeared or where the strip resided for a period.

- J Greb (talk) 23:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Video games
Again, the topic of most of the articles listed in the 'box right now is either the Avengers or the Marvel Universe with Iron Man being one character among many, at best. These do have a place in the "Iron Man in other media" article, but that's where it links in, not adding the articles directly to the 'box.

- J Greb (talk) 23:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Villains who should be included
Grey Gargoyle and Whirlwind were featured as Mandarin's henchmen on the 1990s Iron Man series. TMC1982 9:45 p.m., 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That's not a good reason for inclusion. It's actually a very good reason for the characters not to be included in the 'box. The only inclusion it's a good argument for would be in a section for the TV show in a "Foes of Iron Man" list.
 * The 'box is not supposed to all inclusive, otherwise it becomes a useless morass of links. The best place to draw that limit with the characters is with the "major", or "signature" characters from the comics. That means you stop and ask, is the first connection a general user with little or no intrinsic "Marvel Comics knowledge" going to make with "Grey Gargoyle" or "Griffin" or "Blizzard" be "Iron Man"? If the honest answer is wither "No" or "Who?" then the character should not be in the 'box. With Grey Gargoyle and Whirlwind the answer is "No." For Crusher, Dark Aegis, Griffin, and Hypnotia the answer is "Who?"
 * The same question can be applied to the supporting characters, and the it can result in the same need to an "Iron Man supporting characters" list.
 * And just for clarity, I'm emphasizing list because "Foe" and "Supporting character" categories have gotten a standing consensus in CfDs of inappropriate. - J Greb (talk) 22:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I kind of find it funny and a bit ironic that you seem to claim to not know who some of these characters are (i.e. Crusher, Dark Aegis, Griffin, and Hypnotia) yet, you're still pointing out your superiority of Marvel Comics over mine. TMC1982 3:01 p.m., 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Re-read the post.
 * I'm saing put yourself in the place of a person using the 'box who has limited knowledge of the topic of "Iron Man". For the 'box to be a useful navigation tool, it has to hit the fundamental points and be uncluttered. Informing the user comes from them reading the article and following the embedded links there. If the user can't work through what the recognize and obscure minutia in the 'box, it becomes a large, ugly box at the bottom of the page. - J Greb (talk) 23:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Additional recommendation
I think this is a good box. It appears a lot of work was invested into the template; however the size reduces the convenience, consequently the accessibly of the navbox (the primary point). 1.) I really liked the color scheme initally, but I do find it it is a bit distracting on the pages that it has tagged. 2.) The minimally populated Armor sectioin could easily be incorperated into the misc section. 3.) I also would encourage that the television and film series be incorporated into eachother. 4.) I would recommend that villians be relegated to strict/exclusive Iron Man villians: Iron Man 2020 has never been significant in the greater Iron Man mythos; Nefaria, Arsenal, Crusher are more Avengers villains than Iron Man (Griffin a Champions villain); Roxxon Oil isn't a villain; Dark Aegis can be deleted as it has no notability whatsoever. 5.) Similarly, most of the "Marvel" video games should be deleted as they do not feature the character in a primary role (leaving that section to be incorporated int the other media section). - 66.109.248.114 (talk) 02:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC).

Roxxon Oil isn't a villain

Roxxon Oil (a corporation) - A major business rival of Stark Enterprises. They have a shady reputation and are constantly sending supervillains to sabotage Stark Enterprises. - List of Iron Man enemies

TMC1982 2:05 a.m., 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. Wikipedia, should never be used as a source when resourcing articles, and by expansion templates. 2. While the editor in has chose to quote a list article. The quote reads "buisness rival" which does not indicate villian (as villains by definition are characters); in addition to quote the Roxxon Oil article:

is the name of a fictional massive petroleum corporation appearing in comic book stories published by Marvel Comics in the Marvel Universe. Members of the company could be villains, a fictional company can not. Please take note that the article itself does not state the company is villainous, but rather list the members of the company who have such behavior. In short:Roxxon Oil isn't a villain.


 * Regarding Roxxon... at best it's "Miscellania", as would (and I'm really not advocating articles for these) Stark Industries, Stan Industries, and Fugikawa as all are fictional corporations.
 * The last three make more sense for the template since they are things created specifically for Iron Man stories. Roxxon was not tied to any one character... it was more of a Avengers plot element, if not a Marvel Universe at large one.
 * - J Greb (talk) 02:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Weeding
I've weeded out a lot of minor information from the box, but there's probably still more that needs to be done. The villains list is far too long, and can we not standardise the colours at all? Personally, most of this should already be mentioned in the article or found in Category:Iron Man. Is this template in anyway needed? Hiding T 10:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Now it's (particularly, anything/everything relating to "Other media" such as video games, films and TV shows) full of clutter instead of being "smooth." Why should the TV shows (not counting his guest starring appearances, two shows heavily featuring him) and films need to be together. To date, if you count the Ultimate Avengers films, his own animated film, The Invincible Iron Man, the upcoming Next Avengers film, and the upcoming live-action film, then that's five movies featuring Iron Man in a prominate role. Not counting Captain America and the Avengers (or the various Marvel, multi-character fighting games), Iron Man has at least two games starring himself to have their own articles on Wikipedia. And I have absolutely no clue why you believe that Iron Man centric storylines like Armor Wars or the Ultimate Iron Man series shouldn't be included in the template? TMC1982 1:31 a.m., 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment
Just dropped by to say that whoever selected the colors for the template did a great job! Suede67 (talk) 21:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Iron Man thing
Now that I think about it Howard Jr., Maria, and Yinsen should be supporting characters since they're the father, mother, and major life influence respectively of the main character as well as Gregory and Howard Sr. (the mainstream version at least) have a neutralish vibe about them. Also does Howard Sr. really resemble Titanium Man?

Crashsnake —Preceding undated comment added 07:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC).

In other media
Should the "In other media" link be changed back to "Iron Man in other media", so that "War Machine in other media" can be linked to next to it in the template? -Fandraltastic (talk) 00:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Fractalchez, 20 November 2010
Hello. I wish to make the addition of the page Iron Man (pinball) to this template in the "Video games" section. It is only a stub at the moment, but it is part of WikiProject_Pinball, and thus will continue to be worked on. Please consider this inclusion request.

Thank you, Fractalchez (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Fractalchez (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- &oelig; &trade; 00:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from NeoBatfreak, 19 February 2011
Just want to add Iron Man 2: Original Motion Picture Score to this template.

NeoBatfreak (talk) 22:33, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Please clarify where exactly. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It looks like it should replace the link to the AC/DC album currently at /Films/Soundtracks/Iron Man 2. I confess that modern movie marketing confuses me, though, so I will leave it for someone else to decide whether it should be added instead of replacing. - 2/0 (cont.) 05:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As there has been no response, I have disabled the request for now. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

New villians.
I would like to request that Edwin Cord, and the Raiders be added to the villians, also Arsenal. (JoeLoeb (talk) 17:14, 29 July 2011 (UTC))

Villains
We need to quit adding so many villains here that aren't recurring adversaries or if they are debatable if they are notable. Not to mention that quite a few aren't officially "Iron Man villains". Even though villains like Fixer, Killer Shrike and Coldblood appeared in Iron Man related media that did not make them officially so in comic books. They need to at least appear mostly in Iron Man related comic books. There is two villains I still ain't too sure and that Justine and Shasha Hammer (more so on Shasha). The connection is that they are related to Justin Hammer. That's probably the most notable thing about them. Jhenderson 7 7 7  19:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the Coldblood add was my inclusion and a dumb one, I didn't add Fixer and I may have added Shrike. May I add at least Mordecai Midas, Sunturion, Chemistro, The Mauler, Kearson DeWitt, Sunset Bain, Dmitri Bukharin, Technovore, Edwin Cord, and Freak?? (JoeLoeb (talk) 21:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC))


 * Don't beat yourself in the head for it. I can see how easily one can think he is a Iron Man villain because he appeared in Iron Man 3. I removed a lot of these villains because they don't appear to be recurring adversaries or major villains. Also no proof of notability. (The main reason why Detroit Steel is there because the article does that better than all the rest of the characters) One that I can say is major that you have in the list is maybe Mauler (Mallen) due to being a main antagonist in a issue. My issue of him of a character ( being a main antagonist of a issue and is not that recurring character outside of that) is that I think notability needs to be proven for him. We got a lot of major characters from that comic book who are in section rather than in article. Also Sunset Bain is a maybe. I just need reliable source that she really is Iron Man centric. Because it seems that she appeared in only a little bit of Iron Man comic books. Technivore seems a little minor in the comics. In other media adaptions he seems to be more of a big deal but in the comic books he appears to be dead right now and was not really that recurring. I have sort of the same issue with Sunturion but not quite that much. I feel that you should ask others not just me to establish a vote or consensus. My (maybe) ok ones are Mauler, Sunset Bain, Mallen, Technivore and Sunturion if my issues of them can be disproven. Jhenderson  7 7 7  23:22, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I also feel strongly about Dmitri Bukharin having a article on his own. Sure he has been the most recurring Crimson Dynamo but does that mean that that's a notable alter-ego for a notable Iron Man villain. I don't think that's established at all. Jhenderson  7 7 7  23:28, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I striked what I said when I found out that he went by more than just Crimson Dynamo. I guess he will do. Jhenderson  7 7 7  23:30, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You haven't mentioned these but the Raiders and Wong-Chu I maybe can allow. I just have very similar issues with them as well. Jhenderson  7 7 7  23:37, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * On the subject, I think we should merge Cord with minor characters. I did some work on the article but that's all I can do for it. If I woke up tomorrow and say him merged, I wouldn't be surprised. so i'm adding Mauler, Bain, Wong Chu, Raiders, Sunturion, Technovore (only cause he's famous in other media and now he's out there for the public in the 2013 Anime movie). Chemistro is another one, I'm iffy since I don't remember him being a central foe, Midas is a smaller villain who did have his issues and who else I'm I gonna put him in the template? Spider-Man? lol (JoeLoeb (talk) 14:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC))


 * You said you were going to add the five characters (who I am unsure of) but then you add almost all those other characters on there too. To put it simply if they don't have media adaptions or alternative versions of themselves. They haven't established themselves major villains. Jhenderson  7 7 7  14:39, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Also Chemistro is mostly a Luke Cage villain. If you want him to belong in a navbox. Creating a Luke Cage navbox is the best idea. Jhenderson  7 7 7  14:48, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's the deal, dude. I can tell you want some more inclusions on these characters but we have list for all those other characters you are talking about which is linked in the navbox. The navbox is not (and should not) be the official place for where all his villains should be at. We should totally only stick to the big leagues. If you can establish some of these villains are that. Then they can be in. Also you can request other people opinions. I am not the official voice of Wikipedia. ;) Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:18, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I got to know my place in this site, i'm still very new, I make changes and i'm neglectful that we have a system, so may bad, man. I still would like to add Sunturion, The Mauler or Raiders..but that's just me. I'm OCD-ish at time when I get connected to these Navi-boxes or templates of heroes. :) (JoeLoeb (talk) 02:36, 2 June 2013 (UTC))

I respect you're civil behavior on this. You are going places. In all honesty, there is no rule on this. I just think we need to be more careful on the placement of characters in a shared universe like Marvel. If you want those characters on there and I disagree with it the main rule is to establish a consensus for it. I just wish this navbox is more alive on discussion. My sources on determining who belonged was top ten Iron Man villains type articles personally. Also I let Detroit Steel stay because it's written like it has proven notability. The Hammer family (as I said) was complicated to figure out but since I allowed newer villains like Detroit Steel which has a connected story to them I allowed it. Jhenderson 7 7 7  15:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

What we really need to do is come up with a WP:NPOV means of determining who counts as an Iron Man villain or leave them all out completely. Maybe if they first appeared in an Iron Man series, by the number of appearances in an Iron Man series, or by WP:RS.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * As I said before. These kind of sources are really helpful: http://www.newsarama.com/17690-the-10-greatest-iron-man-villains-of-all-time.html http://voices.yahoo.com/the-top-ten-villains-iron-man-3424098.html?cat=38. Also this source is a little helpful http://www.comicbookrevolution.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=358:top-15-iron-man-villains&catid=58&Itemid=82 (if you ignore Doctor Doom and Count Nefaria being on there). Jhenderson  7 7 7  17:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

inclusions of the villains
Not all list sources are probably reliable but they are helpful.
 * http://www.newsarama.com/17690-the-10-greatest-iron-man-villains-of-all-time.html
 * 1) 1. Mandarin. #2. Iron Monger. #3. Madam Masque. #4. Crimson Dynamo. #5. Zeke Stane. #6. Titanium Man. #5. A.I.M #4. The Controller #2. Fin Fang Foom #1. Ghost.
 * http://www.comicbookrevolution.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=358:top-15-iron-man-villains&catid=58&Itemid=82
 * 1) 3. Justin Hammer. #6. Doctor Doom : Mainly a Fantastic Four villain.Even admitted by the source. #9. Spymaster. #11. Melter. #13. Count Nefaria : A Iron Man villain mainly in Avengers titles. #14. Temugin #15. Ultimo.
 * http://epicleveltv.com/top-5-iron-man-villains
 * 1) 2.Living Laser.
 * http://marvel.com/news/story/12057/take_10_iron_man_villains
 * 1) 10.Unicorn.
 * http://www.411mania.com/movies/columns/138188
 * 1) 08. MODOK. Jhenderson  7 7 7  23:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2014
add avengers to supporting characters (please, thanks)

129.49.11.178 (talk) 23:58, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 00:18, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Nick Fury
Should he be on the template? His presence in the Iron Man comics were very minimal. Sure, he's appeared in the movies, most notably Iron Man 2...but the real purpose was to set up the then-upcoming Avengers movie. Haleth (talk) 05:33, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2016
98.119.71.240 (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Datbubblegumdoe[talk – contribs] 03:37, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2016
98.119.71.240 (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Datbubblegumdoe[talk – contribs] 03:37, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Films Outside of Iron Man Franchise
I understand the difficulty of organizing the box, but given how Iron Man is in several films in the MCU, it may warrant his filmography in this template. 161.185.151.51 (talk) 21:37, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's a good idea. The MCU and Avengers templates already exist, his part in Homecoming is not that large.★Trekker (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2018
In the Antagonists section, put in Freak (Marvel Comics). 2600:1700:7E31:5710:4021:68A3:750E:BE10 (talk) 22:02, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:04, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

J.A.R.V.I.S.
I split J.A.R.V.I.S. from Edwin Jarvis. For consideration for separate entry in allies. -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:31, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Improve for non-expert readers
Folks, we need to continue to realize Wikipedia as a site for general-interest and non-expert readers, not a collection of siloed fan sites. I’m talking about something simple here that shouldn’t be at all controversial, as it is part of site-wide improvement.

There is a section in this template for characters. Nothing but characters are listed in the tree beneath it. It should be titled “Characters”. It is instead titled using one non-descriptive word, the opaque fan/corporate marketing term “Universe”. This term, sans explanation, is deprecated across Wikipedia comic book articles because of its opacity and ambiguity, and you will notice that many articles have been improved so that “appears in such-and-such universe” in the top paragraph instead reads “comic books published by (PUBLISHER NAME)”. This tells a non-expert reader what they need to know without needing to delve into the publishing and marketing history of an entire industry.

As comic book fans, we need to take the same responsibility as any other curators of topics of our personal interest on Wikipedia: its readers may want to know about the topic without sharing our level of prior knowledge. Could we please continue the commendable efforts to de-mystify these articles and templates here, and, sensibly, call the part of the template listing/linking characters, well, “Characters”? ComicsAreJustAllRight (talk) 14:10, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

'Teams' Section
Would it be worth adding a 'Teams' section within the 'Characters' umbrella, below the 'Supporting' section?

This section would be for teams Iron Man has been a notable part of, something like this; Avengers | New Avengers | Guardians of the Galaxy | Illuminati — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleealex (talk • contribs) 08:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2022
Add the link to the article Ten Rings (organization)! 2804:7F2:5A3:F759:E8A9:5154:8497:45EE (talk) 10:58, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ Added the link to antagonist Group section.  NickyLam12  (talk &#124; contrib) 02:01, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2022
Add the link to the article Dmitri Bukharin! 2804:7F2:699:8917:C94:40C4:4F42:7618 (talk) 10:59, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There is already a link to Crimson Dynamo ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2022
Add link to Deadpool! 2804:7F2:699:8917:60B6:213:B265:29AB (talk) 04:06, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:25, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: While this change does not need reliable sources, there is no reason deadpool should be included in this iron man template. Aaron Liu (talk) 06:34, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2022
Add Malekith the Accursed in Other enemies! 2804:7F2:69B:A759:CCE2:4309:2DBC:12B (talk) 18:52, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Aaron Liu (talk) 06:38, 12 July 2022 (UTC)