User:Geogre/Talk archive 14

Talk 14: to May 1, 2006

Toast Post
You deleted this page, saying "It's toast: not a widely discussed event, and Wikipedia is not a goof page." No it is not a goof page, that’s why I referred to the event as "whimsical", please refer to British comedians [Dave Gorman] and {Tony Hawks] if this concept is unfamiliar to you. Also, just because you haven't heard about it, doesn't mean it isn't a notable event. You may not realise it, but there are other countries outside the US, and in the UK- the BBC is the largest broadcaster, which is why when something is discussed on one of their stations, it makes it a notable event.

I’m not partially annoyed, I suspected it would be deleted, but I do challenge the fact that it is not “widely discussed”, I’ve seen American news networks, and so I am amazed you guys actually know about anything that is going on outside your shores.


 * Well, it wasn't an American-centric deletion, I assure you. Rather, there are numerous attempts every day to write articles on "events," and it's true that the original tagging of the page as a speedy delete was probably inappropriate.  However, were it to go to articles for deletion (a more deliberative, juried system), I suspect the conclusion would be the same.  The reason is that, to be encyclopedic, an event needs to be documented (i.e. verifiable by reference) and not local.  Thus, a "hey, did you hear about the squirrel on water skis" event that makes local news or a curio segment on radio usually doesn't have enough staying power culturally to be encyclopedic.  It's still fun, and it's still amusing, and it's still something that's appealing enough that people talk about it, but it's not really encyclopedic.  This is not to say that there aren't goofs on Wikipedia.  There are, as volunteers miss things and some things (dancing hamsters) unaccountably get a great deal of attention for more than a month or so.  If you want, I'll undelete and send the page to articles for deletion, where it can be considered.  I really do think the verdict will be the same, but, procedurally, it would be the most correct move.  Geogre 02:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Deletion
Hey, thanks for deleting the Waryngya page. I didn't realize that I couldn't delete a page I created myself. Seems I made more trouble than I was trying to fix. In the future, how do you search to see what links to something? It appears at the bottom of some articles. Also, how do you use the. That is, how do I enter the reason is that I'm an idiot or something like that? Thanks!Avraham 06:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, deletion is impossible for regular users, but it's possible to blank your own article. Any author-blanked article is considered a candidate for speedy deletion.  At any rate, you use the db tag and then put in a pipe | and then the reasoning, a la , I think.  To tell the truth, that system developed long after I was an administrator, so I tend to clean out the candidates for speedy deletion or do New Pages patrol rather than referring to CSD.  "What links here" should be live on every article.  Where it is on your screen will depend upon which skin you're using and how you've set your preferences, but, for me, it's on the left panel.  It will only show up in the article screen, though, and not the editing screen, I think.  Thanks for at least wishing to blank your article and clean up.  Geogre 13:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Policy Crises
Are you quite sure you want notification when the next major policy crisis hits? I've done little but envy your steadfast ability to actually build an encyclopedia in the last few days since the "Superbowl Massacre" &mdash; I've been largely paralyzed, just gawking at the spectacle of it all. Belated congratulations on your 200th de novo, Geogre. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm not really that into the crises.  Bishonen and I approach Wikipedia very differently, and we can never understand why the other one doesn't get involved in Crisis X or Y that is so clearly all-important.  I care about policy.  I figure that the principle of the thing is extremely important, and if we get good policies and stick to them until it hurts (and then change them when enough people feel the pain, but only with consideration of the pains we feel and the ones we want to avoid), all will be well.  I think Bishonen cares about people, and particularly people getting stomped on by the bullies of the site.  She helps people.  Anyway, it kind of explains why I'll just drop anchor on some prinicple or another and stay there, no matter what (like listening to what AfD says and not unilaterally undeleting, like rejecting the notion that there are "expert" editors).  I also don't do much vandal blocking or reverting.
 * I do have a plan for the articles I'm writing. One day (I promise), I'm going to finish The Dunciad.  Well, in The Dunciad, Pope blasts a hole in about three dozen contemporaries.  I've read the poem many, many times, studied it many times, and I've always been a bit bugged that I never had a handle on who the "dunces" were, what they had done to deserve their treatment, or what they stood for.  Since I want to be more of an expert on the culture and politics of 1700-1750, I'm on a groove to get a bio of every one of the dunces in, and I was shocked to find that my employer's library has a 2004 DNB.  Then it's just a question of time and taking notes and writing.
 * Since reading DNB biographies means not grading papers, it's fairly irresistible. :-) Geogre 21:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

vote request
Hi Geogre I'd appreciate if you could vote below to rename per my suggestion ASAP to avoid no consensus, Thanks! Arniep 00:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC) Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_February_1.

ET phone
Will you be home around 3 PM? Bishonen | talk 14:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Alack, but I'll be performing mule duties at that time. You know, one of the articles I did recently mentioned the town of Preston.  I don't know English geography atoll, but I wondered if that was near Giano's beloved Preston-Pluckett.  If so, he might have a notable former resident (a dunce, of course).  Geogre 16:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The bravery and focused intelligence of the animal serving it well? Tomorrow, then? Bishonen | talk 17:13, 11 February 2006 (UTC).
 * I was sure-footed, with a call that is neither equine nor asinine. (Also, the bit about the sterility, judging from past performance.)
 * Preston Plucknett's near Yeovil, Preston is perhaps 300 km farther north. So convenient having an encyclopedia at hand, you should try it, Geogre :-) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Prbbt! I would only look to that if I needed to know what I missed on yesterday's Sailor Moon or whether my new Gobot would transform with the old Transformers set and whether the boss enemy on World of Warcraft had any hidden dialogue I could unlock by pressing shift-three-jump-control-z-F2 at the same time while painting my face blue and making monkey noises with my underwear on my head.  Geogre 23:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, enough joviality, get back to your historycruft work. (Or is it biographycruft? Perhaps both.) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Duncecruft at this point, but generally what I do is litgeeking. Geogre 03:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You want to see the good stuff, check out Category:The Price is Right pricing games. No, go look. There's the repository of all human knowledge we all love. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Holy cr*p! That's f*cking amazing!  Don't they have pills to treat that kind of thing?  Geogre 03:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sure they have missed a couple... -- 21:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm sure they've missed more than a couple of their pills, if they generated a list like that. Look, I've got nothing against folks with cognitive and affective differences from the norm -- Lord knows I'm weird enough -- but one ought to be aware of when one is riding the hobby horse and ought to know that not every place is a proper thoroughfare for it.  Geogre 23:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, strayed here for no good reason... Preston means priest-town, referring to the presence of an abbey or the like, so is a fairly common UK placename or modifier.JackyR 15:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, so it's a priest on Plunkett that would be telling. (I still haven't found any famous people from there, but, in 1710, they were all coming from various places, but they were all going to London.)  Geogre 23:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Happy Valentine's day, dear Geogre!
  Happy Valentine's Day, my sweet dear Geogre! Phædriel 


 * Awwww! Non-mute swans (the ones you can pet without fear of flu)!  Now, when my students ask me if I got a card, I can say that I did.  Geogre 02:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Article for Deletion
Greetings. You may be interested in voting on Articles for deletion/Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse (image free). Thanks. --Descendall 01:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

John Tutchin
LOL, incredible! Mocked his verses from the bench! Talk about adding insult etc. Have you had a chance to look at Tutchin's The Foreigners? It sounds like a masterpiece, and in a fine old English tradition, too. Stick it to the froggies! Quite right, what! What a shining light of the Good Old Cause Tutchin must have been. :-) Bishonen | 美少年 19:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC).
 * The Foreigners was anti-Dutch, actually. He loved William.  However, William had Dutch favorites, and so Tutchin turned to bite him.  Defoe went to lick the same place where Tutchin bit, with The True-born Englishman.  What is interesting is that those years ago, when I was digging about in the rare book room, I read The Prophecy, an attack on Harley and also The Prophecy of Red Robin about the coming "Robinarchy."  The latter was attributed to Harley himself, and the Robinarchy is Walpole's rule, and this was in 1714!  That's some far sight indeed.  Geogre 20:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Mind taking a look?
Hey Geogre, would you mind sticking your head into this discussion for a moment :Deletion review. One user has been leavng messages on the talk page of anyone likely to agree with him, which I fear is skewing the turnout. I don't exactly want to do the same thing, but it's good to have the views of as many people as possible who actually put thought into their comments. You came to mind. It's a mess, and a lot to read. Thanks. -R. fiend 05:20, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Poor Geogre!
Poor thing! :-( OK to phone at 3? Or will you be using the nap facilitator? Bishonen | 美少年 09:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC).
 * The fainting couch? Nah.  I should be awake.  For once, the diagnosis was absolutely accurate, seemingly, and the original magic bullet seems to be working.  It has been 24 hr, and the infection is much less.  Geogre 12:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I just realized there will be eating round about then, so I'll be maybe 20 minutes delayed, sorry. Bishonen | 美少年 19:17, 18 February 2006 (UTC).
 * No problem. (I like "fainting couch" as a name.  It suggests an activity common enough to require its own type of furniture.  In the 19th c. in the south, at least, that was the common term.  In the 19th c. in the south, dressing like Victorian ladies and gentlemen would have meant quite a bit of passing out in the 100 degree F. heat.)  Geogre 02:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you seen the cleanup tags added to Henry Carey (writer)? Oh, the shame! -- ALoan (Talk) 10:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Tell me about it! I don't want to be mean to someone who only wants to help, but the whole project is tag crazy. You'd only have to look at the history tab to see that it's an active article, and that should mean a note on the talk page will get the author(s) to speak up. Did you see why it was supposed to be cleaned up? I honestly don't get it. On my screen (extremely high resolution, granted) it looks highly broken up, with only one paragraph that's long. The shame thing, though.... Geogre 14:14, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Geogre passes out on the fainting couch from the humiliation of it, exclaiming "My vartue! My vartue!" I suppose they wanted subheadings? But I really dropped by to say Pope's verses on Jemmy Moore are the best. "Not that they're rich, but that they steal." :-) Bishonen | 美少年 00:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC).

I absolutely agree! How could I not quote those? The lines were absolutely perfect, and his summary of scholars ("A storehouse of books in every head/ For ever reading, never to be read") is another perfect zinger. I never did get around to adding those subheadings today, nor grading papers. For those who don't know, I'm experiencing a slight bout of some bacterial head infection. The antibiotics are rushing about doing their jobs (and if I were a real Augustan, I'd just take Dr. Spinkes's mercury cure), but I find myself getting winded just walking about the house, so vigorous editing has been less alluring to me than watching basketball on television. (For those looking for the lines Bish is referring to, look at James Moore Smythe.) Geogre 03:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Clerks again
An intersting bit of flotsam has just surfaced in Tony's abrbitration about what clerks are allowed to do. I'm sure that Mindspillage simply meant that a clerk would represent somone "neutral". However, even leaving aside my concerns that clerks now appear to be neutral by definition, it's indicative of the slippery slope to super-editors that this office has created. brenneman {T} {L}  07:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Henry Carey (writer)
Hi. I just noticed your comment on Paul August's talk page about the above article. If you look at the taskforce page for the article you'll see I did leave a comment about what I'd done, and also asking for some input. I agree that all the tagging and assigning is excessive, but hey-ho, its been done, so lets get it sorted and all move on. Kcordina 16:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Kcordina. One question I have about this project, is why not use the article's talk page for such discussions about the article? That's what they are for, no?  Using the talk page would be a more collegial way to communicate with the other editors working on the article, as well as preserve such discussions, in one place, with the article, for the benefit of future editors of the article. Just my two cents. By the way I thought your edits to the article were improvements, with a few exceptions which I tweaked.  Paul August &#9742; 16:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't really have a problem with the edits, except one, but I don't feel very strongly about that one. However, I do object with not having this stuff on the talk page. Since I wrote the article, researched it, rewrote it, researched it again, and keep adding as I find out more (the man is elusive; he's probably the most important figure of the 18th c. to be a complete ghost in reference works), I keep it on my watchlist. Any breath, and I'd see it. Originally, it seems that it needed to go to a "higher standard" because of sections. Sheesh, man, but that's an insulting message for an article under heavy research and revision like that! Anyway, "Please break it into subsections" would have gotten the sections done, had it been on the talk page. Instead, though.... It's a sub-optimal method, at best. No one should tag without extremely clear wording, and they shouldn't do that until the talk page has failed. Geogre 16:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Please bear in mind that the first time I became aware of this article was when it dropped onto my desk asking for cleanup. Since that is the route that the article came to me, I chose to leave my comment on the taskforce talk page for the article, which I don't think is that big a crime.  I agree with you, as I said above, that the tagging was all excessive, and as you rightly say, a note on the talk page would have sorted it.  Perhaps you should point your feelings out to whoever tagged it.  Anyway, in the meantime, perhaps we can work together to move the article forward - see my comments on the taskforce talkpage, which can be moved to the article page if people are so inclined. Kcordina 17:03, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Again, I don't want to bite when I should thank, and I do thank you for the edits. You caught things with a fresh set of eyes that I was blinded to. I'm just testy about the project itself and the way it operates, not the way you have operated within it. Since you've been reading the article, I'm sure you can see how interesting the fellow is. He may be the author of God Save the King, for crying out loud, and he definitely wrote tunes still sung. Additionally, he took very brave political stands and wrote some very funny stuff (Namby Pamby is hilarious). It's simply mind boggling how little information there is on him, though. The DNB was the best I've found, and even it has to repeat two or three sources from the 18th c. that are terribly incomplete ("ballad maker"), and the 19th c. practically erased him. You'd have to read Thomas Babbington Macaulay to know how that happened. Anyway, I'm about to do a conference paper on Carey. My first thought was to do it on Chrononhonthologos, despite not being able to pronounce it, but, at this point, I think my paper will be called, "Holy Cow! Why Don't You Know Henry Carey?" Geogre 19:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Biographies
Editing Epaminondas a while ago, and more recently John Brooke-Little, caused me to create stubs for two female authors, Sara Cone Bryant and Constance Egan. As they are more your territory than mine (particularly as they wrote up Southern US folk tales, although far to modern for you I am sure), I wondered if you had access to better resources than the palry assistance that I derive from the interweb? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the hints. Yeah, I have access to the Dict. of Am. Bio., as well as, I think, a few Southern Lit. encyclopedia, and those should provide information on the two persons, so I'll be happy to add them to my list.  Anything to avoid the stomach churning anxiety of finishing Dunciad.  Geogre 16:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

美少年, guess who!
Mozilla at work. Mozilla at home. Your sig, FAC, and Reference Desk all display at work. At home, flowers don't bloom, worlds don't bounce, and FAC is too long and polluted. Geogre 20:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, can't you go straight to the transcluded subpage without loading the whole FAC? Oh, it looks like you already did. How about my sig now, can you at least see the talk link? It's hiragana for "Talk", as used on the Japanese Wikipedia, instead of kanji for "Bishonen". Is it still all question marks? You need to download some Japanese character sets, then. Cool that somebody did on your work machine. 美少年 | ノート 21:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC) (Guess who!)

Oh, well, now your signature is all question marks. My work machine was default, and so was my home, so no telling what's up with either one. BTW, I had my 101 class watch The Last Laugh today. They did well for its being a silent film, 1924, and German expressionism. Geogre 22:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Tillie Blobbs Theatre Award
This has been long overdue. In recognition for your contributions to Restoration and Augustan Drama, on behalf of WikiProject Theatre, I would like to present the Tille Blobbs Theatre Award. Congratulations! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! Thank you!  (Love her hair style.  I'll bet it's very "manageable" like that.  Wonder what kind of conditioner she uses?)  I have inexplicably learned a great deal about Augustan theater lately, and I must say that it's actually a very interesting thing, once you get past the plays in the anthologies.  Geogre 21:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, the Tillie, great! As far as "If you guys need some Photoshopping", Geogre, I don't know what I can do more than I already did to hint heavily that I'd love the "Mr K" zen mood to be changed to saying "Joseph K.". Hint hint! Bishonen | ノート 17:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC).

Oh, to be the sister of an admiral!
Reading Leonard Welsted, very cool. I don't know why exactly it's amusing to describe a person exhaustively as "the sister of an admiral", but it is. :-) A fine thing to be, and an excellent quality in a wife. But how do you mean W was "needful"? Little joke making "needful" (=necessary) stand for "full of need", and therefore ready to propagate the favored POV of any patron...? Bishonen | ノート 18:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Well, needful can mean "needy," although that is an archaism. Yeah, I was trying to suggest that he was hungry for money.  (The son of a sailor meets the sister of an admiral.)  Geogre 18:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Categorization
Hi! When you add, categories, could you follow this template? ? There's no space after the :, and each category is on its own line. Thanks. =) Jon Harald Søby 11:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Laurence Eusden
I'll make the change you suggested, as it is just a bit strong to outright say he sucked. If you can find more biographical information, please add it -- there was a real paucity of valuable info on Eusden on the Internet. Oh, I've been working on the other Poets Laureate as well, so far (besides Eusden), Warton, Whitehead, Austin and Rowe are "completed" pending any edits recommended by other editors. Jim62sch 17:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm saving a few of the others (especially Southey) for last, as I have to research Byron's Don Juan for some great quotes -- he ripped into Southey, among others, even more viciously than Pope ripped into the Dunces.
 * I might leave the Alfred Lawn Tennison article alone, except for grammar or format, as my POV might bleed through. Jim62sch 17:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, Byron kept ripping into Southey, where Pope had a much larger cast of characters and malefactors. Also, Southey had more worth than Cibber or Eusden. Geogre 19:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

FYI
In case you are not following this, you are being mentioned here &mdash; Paul August &#9742; 06:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * This is what I get for trying to be nice, trying to be "above the fray," and for trying to avoid the mud baths. I was remembering Twain's advice: Never get into a mud fight with a pig: you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.  Well, the whole rationale of Tony's "defense" is so utterly transparent that I guess I had to.  I think anyone prosecuting him would do well to remember that the central defense that he makes, over and over, and that is made for him, over and over is, "His heart is in the right place."  Well, that rationale could be used for RickK insulting newbies, Snowspinner instantly banning people, for anyone who is "right" and decides that rules and process are a hindrance.  Also, it's like things are with a puppy.  You give the puppy rawhide bones, which are leather, and say, "Good dog."  Then the puppy eats your Italian loafers, and you whip it for destroying leather.  You can't say, "Tony good for creating a new article but doing so to preserve the edit history of a brain damaged teen" and then say "Karmafist bad for insulting people" or "Carmildo bad for indefinite blocking Giano."  Once you open up the door to "use your intrinsic spirit of Truth," it's open all the way.  Geogre 11:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup. Of course, those who espouse opening that "door", want it open only for themselves. Paul August &#9742; 17:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope, hope, hope that the ArbCom is finally starting to realize that I was right, that being lax on this "hey, kiddo, you mean well" bullshit leads to the permabanning admins. No Divine Right of Admins!  When Tony Sidaway or David Gerrard or Snowspinner can cure scrofula by touch, I'll reconsider.  Geogre 17:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I hope so too. Do you have any reason to believe this is so? Many folks confuse the role of "good intentions" in making moral judgments about people and their actions. Intentions are important when making moral judgments about people. But they have no place at all in judging actions, which should be judged only on their consequences. Paul August &#9742; 18:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I only know that one member is willing to move from the "Everyone says they mean well" to the "This is much more trouble later than good now" column. Beyond that, I have no evidence.  In confidence, quite a few are expressing similar disquiet and "Maybe you're right" to me (when they wouldn't have, before).  In particular, I think the same few names occurring over and over is starting to worry some people.  That said, I haven't anything concrete, and this is just a hope.  To me, it's blindingly obvious: no one, including me or you or anyone else, should get to express unilateral power.  I've decided to step up voting in RFA -- a thing I find zero sum on a good day -- to be sure to vote against those without strong proof of worth, not to vote for any who haven't proof of malice.  Given the mess that occurs when someone decides to do what Tony does regularly or what Carnildo did, without ArbCom laying down the law quickly, it's not worth taking a chance or, frankly, assuming good intent.  Geogre 21:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

A Geogre in full flight...
Is a rare sight indeed. I thank you for your candour and your passion. brenneman {T} {L}  22:54, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I kind of regretted the "lie" bit. I think it, but I generally don't express myself that bluntly, especially because I didn't need to.  Every point that I had made remained, and the most critical point "ends justify the means/heart's in the right place," wasn't even addressed.  I had just had enough of the pretense and the skunk-like stink he was using as a defense.  (Yes, I am accusing him of spreading a cloud of odor every time he feels threatened.)  Since the matter is obvious to me, I can't guess why others don't see it.  Geogre 02:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Citizens! Return to your homes!  Communication with other editors outside of IRC or the mailing list is suspicious activity.  Nandesuka 03:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes! Now, we could use the "e-mail this user" or IRC or a private tab on IRC, and that would be groovy, but two or three people who agree on a point of view mustn't share it on talk pages.  Talk pages are for warnings!  (If anyone complains about this, and if it gets any traction, I'm going to go back to using very short words and unusual punctuation marks.)  Geogre 10:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree! Nandesuka's statement is double plus good! --maru (talk) contribs 02:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "Talk pages are only for vandalism warnings. Talk pages have ALWAYS been only for vandalism warnings.  The mailing list is where policy is announced.  The mailing list has always been where policy is announced.  Policy is announced.  Policy has never been agreed to by the community.  Those who say otherwise are thought criminals."  Geogre 10:42, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Geogre is goodthinkful! Bishonen | ノート 10:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC).


 * We're at war with East Britannica. We've always been at war with East Britannica. Big Jimbo is watching us! --maru (talk) contribs 20:42, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

East Britannica is our friend. East Britannica has ALWAYS been our friend. The freedom ration will be increased from "consensus" to "appointed" arbitration clerks. They have already volunteered and are heroes of the state. Geogre 21:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Pop culture FAs
Your cue, I believe. Bishonen | ノート 12:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC).


 * Yeah, and with so many who came here for fan concerns, someone is bound to take it personally. Heck, I'm a fan of things, too, and I write about them, but it's that line between thinking that there is something cool to say and thinking that what you've said isn't cool until it's on the main page.  (See my new Sayings of Geogre the Wise.  I think #4 applies.)  Geogre 12:50, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Shrug. Does every person mentioned in the Dunciad deserve an article?  Could they all become featured articles, in principle?  If they did, should we refrain from putting them on the Main Page? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Where they differ from the sorts of pop topics that bother me is that, 1) they're biographies, so the people existed and therefore generated documentary evidence, 2) they produced works that affected history (most of them), 3) the sources for them will be disinterested (in the literal sense), 4) enough time has passed that we can tell who among them generated many effects and which disappeared without a trace. If all the person did was get in The Dunciad, then absolutely no FA is possible.  Once you say that Leonard Welsted wrote light verse and got in The Dunciad, there isn't much to say.  Even as a star of The Dunciad's muck-diving contest, that's not very much.  Specialists will want and need to know about him, but a general encyclopedia reader won't care, because interest is licensed upon first having an interest in something else.  The same is true of fictional species from TV shows: you have to first be interested in the show before you can be interested in the species.  This cuts down the number of people who can or will write about the species, and that cuts down the possibilities of references.  Again, I'm not saying there shouldn't be articles, but I don't think they can be FA's.  (Incidentally, if all Colley Cibber ever did was get in The Dunciad, I'd say there should be no FA there, but the featured article on him mainly discussed how important he was in theatre history as a shaping force and then as a source of information and then as a political being who got satirized by Pope.)  I hope folks don't assume that saying, "This isn't possible for an FA" is saying, "You shouldn't have an interest or write an article."  Geogre 14:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, no problem - and thanks for the kind words on my talk page. I don't think we are all that far apart, but I still believe (there is my POV!) it is true that virtually any topic can be made into an article, and that virtually any article can become good enough to be featured.  As you say, for some topics, there is not much to say that is very interesting, but if you say all that there is to be said in a pleasant way, with references and so on, I don't see why that can't be a featured article. There is deliberately no minimum size for a featured article, although it is a bit of an elephant (know it when you see it). -- ALoan (Talk) 16:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Cincinnatus
I like what you had to say about Cincinnatus and RfA's on Requests for adminship. I hope you don't mind that I quoted you on my userpage. Mikereichold 15:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Not at all! I should note, though, that I really mean no insult to anyone.  Some self-noms are people who have been toiling silently, waiting to be noticed, for years, and they should have been admins a year before, but, yes, I do hesitate when I see that people want the position as opposed to agree to the position.  If I think getting the position is part of anyone's motivation for their edits, I get the heeby geebies.  Again, though, I certainly don't want to lead a parade.  It's just how I feel about the issue.  Geogre 15:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Pittrock
Why did you delete my article about one of my favorite rock bands? You said it is a hoax but I actually met Chris J. Hines and he told me about his band and its history.


 * How wonderful for you. So, why doesn't the All Music Guide know about the band.  You should go submit your material there.  When there are several sources that indicate that the band was substantial, it will be time for a Wikipedia article, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source of information and never the first source.  Geogre 10:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Geogre. I would like to add that this user has created a number of what I (and several other editors) would consider hoax articles (see Articles for deletion/Man of Nature (1979)). I'm not really sure if this is a case of an earnest-but-seriously-misguided user, an elaborate hoax/joke, or just pure vandalism. I thought it best to bring this to someone's attention. -- Krash (Talk) 16:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I liked reading your response. I'm glad there are some rational-minded and respectable sysops. -- Krash (Talk) 16:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Did you see
... this, and this, and all Giano's other FARC nominations? Bishonen | ノート 09:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC).


 * We're all pissed, but there's no point being that pissed. (Nowhere is there a page that requires notation fetish, and the people who talk like that are getting overruled.  It's just that they're like the hydra's heads.  When one gets wise and cuts it out, another emerges to say the same words.)  Geogre 10:46, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * WP:POINT. Well, not that disruptive, and I take his WP:POINT too, but it is (relatively understandable, Latin temperament) pique. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oooh-oooh, now you've done it! You mentioned the icily-Say thing!  I hope you're a good swimmer.  (Actually, I see what Giano's talking about.  Tony1 has been at it on FAC, basically demanding that all the world conform to a US business style sheet.  It's ugly.  If his changes were to be enacted, our articles would be far less interesting reading.)  Geogre 14:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I really unleashed the dogs of havoc and anarchy and war and pestilence on Bishonen's talk page. Style-sheet-compliant prose is less compelling than prose with variation and rhythm.  Geogre 14:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Very nicely put Geogre. Your racist comments ALoan have been noted and filed for later -  I'd be looking to my Roman obelisk if I were you! Giano | talk 14:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Object. The prose is not "compelling even brilliant". Here are examples (in just the first sentence!):
 * "I really …" &mdash; get rid of "really".
 * "unleaseded" should be "let slip", per Shakespeare.
 * Lose the first two "and"s in: "of havoc and anarchy and war and pestilence".
 * Paul August &#9742; 16:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Paul, don't put beans up your nose. (We have a leash law here, and my dogs never wear slips beneath their dresses.)  Geogre 16:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the Marxist rant part of it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the rest of it is applicable, surely. We should all celebrate the fact that we're not writing corporate documents.  We're writing encyclopedia articles. Geogre 14:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * off you go then, and talk to a distinguished toad! (No not you ALoan, don't be so sensitive) Giano | talk 14:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it was that set me off. The article is fantastic, but someone sucking alum had to try to pass it through his mouth, first, and make that an objection. Does no one know the difference between an edit and an objection? Geogre 15:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

He is a pain in the backside, isn't he?

Disk or disc
Regarding Disk or disc, in order to comply with the GFDL, I think it should probably not be deleted. There are 22 edits in the history, going back to September 2, 2001, and a fair bit of the content at Disk was merged from that page. I would like to either undelete it an put it on RFD, or merge the histories instead (it looks like the separate pages may have been caused by a copy/paste move in August 2003). I'd do it myself, but I wanted your opinion on it first. --Interiot 14:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't have strong feelings about it, although the talk page to the article really did seem useless. I'll do the undelete.  I was just cleaning out CSD.  Geogre 14:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Yeah, the talk page is pretty old.  The article does look like a pretty clear cut-n-paste move, and I'll merge the history a little later today... I haven't done a merge yet, and don't have time now to make sure I don't muck it up (I haven't done a history merge yet, whee).  --Interiot 15:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Cursor Mundi
I don't know who told you Cursor Mundi was in a Midlands dialect, but it very much isn't. It's Northumbrian / Northern Middle English. Just an FYI. -- GWO
 * I had to have gotten that from Bennett & Smither, unless it was just a mistake. I notice that older refernces say Northumbrian, which means that I got it from B&S or nowhere.  The Thomas Garbati anthology I have doesn't include it.  Geogre 18:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

MAYDAY
Help! Bishonen | ノート 11:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC).
 * I have responded to this here. --maclean 25 06:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Phöne höme
If you're önline, could you hang up so I can phöne, please? Bishonen | ノート 20:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC).

Dipso or Psycho
People wonder why I'm so bad tempered take a look here enough to drive a mad saint to drink. Giano | talk 19:46, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Whaddafug? I've never heard of "Good Articles" in the first place, but it looks like a world of goofiness.  Why on earth do we want more project pages where we can hurt each others' feelings?  If we have one, we damn well better get the procedural kinks worked out.  Finally, removal of?  Seems to me that the reason FARC came into being was that What is a Featured Article had a big, dramatic change.  Otherwise, there is little justification for the entire procedure at FARC.  Given that this "Good Article" junk must be new, what the heck kind of change in standard can justify a removal from it?  Weird.  Geogre 20:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * "Good Articles" started out a few months back as a kind of anybody-can-add-one, anybody-can-remove-one kind of thing, but I guess it's been somewhat more processified since then. It's pretty stupid. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well! I had thought I had been jolly clever to discover their existence - so I nominated a one time prospective FA (in which I had lost interest) thinking I was going to get a "Goodness me Giano - you are clever!" which would have been perfectly exceptable, but what I received was Johnmleek saying "no way". I shall have "Fuck Footnotes" engraved on my tombe-lid, which the way things are going will be required sooner rather than later.  I shall have to get back to work on my Footnote Spectacular.  Oh God yellow sign just flashed - something no doubt buzzing irritatingly on my page.  Guess what I may be in New York later this week - shall we have a wikimeet? Giano | talk 21:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd love to, man, but these days I'm down in Sweet Onion, Georgia, which is about 1,200 miles away (or 2,793.8 km), so getting up to NYC is a pain. I miss NYC a great deal of the time -- a place where, politically anyway, I fit in.  I still have the same general reaction to "Good Articles," I'm afraid: Whaddafug?  I see the impulse, but the gnat inspectors and comma weighing crew had to catch wind of it.  Footnotes are stupid.  Emendations are cool, but footnotes for authorities have so long ago been replaced by parenthetical references that no paper is acceptable for publication if it uses them, and this is true in molecular biology as well as sociology as well as literature.  The existence of HTML doesn't change the absurdity of requiring footnotes.  Finally, if "Good Articles" is supposed to be just "good," then let those who remove unnoted things turn their attentions to the things that are not notable for once and spend some time at AfD.  Geogre 22:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It's all very sad isn't it? We are all islands here, floating in a sea or tranquility - well your page is, mine seems to have become very tempestuous, so I'll come over here.  Yep good old NYC here I come sadly a 12 hour stop and then back here.  They seem to have internet connections there too these days - so I won't be missed (unless I'm banned!) - Nowhere is called Vidalia surely? sounds like some sort of bedding plant in a municipal park.  Just ignore me, I'm sure it's delightfil in its own way, I grew up in Ragusa which everybody thinks makes me Eastern European.  Oh well never a dull moment. Giano | talk 22:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You mean you didn't click on the link? It has a map, and it has an external link to the local Internet search site -- the one that shows you The Movie showing at The Movie Theater.  This is a city that, I kid you not, doesn't have a book store.  It had one for a few years, but then it went out of business for lack of interest.  In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.  In Vidalia, I'm a professor.  I did not grow up here.  I didn't come from here.  It's hot.  All the flowers are in full bloom now, for example.  In Oliver Goldsmith's The Deserted Village, there are lines about the poor English peasants who have gone over to Amerikey, and they live in constant fear on the banks of the savage Altamaha, where tigers devour them and men more wild than they prey upon them.  That's where I live -- a few miles from the banks of the savage Altamaha.  I go looking for English peasants to prey upon.  Geogre 22:46, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You know Geogre, you would love Ragusa - it would be so you! Giano | talk 22:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * PS just returned to link Ragusa - can't stay  - I see on the watch list that woman is shouting about again on FAC, I'd better go and see what she's saying this time, all too tiresome for words. Giano | talk 22:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * i've just had a relook at Vidalia - why not get out there with your camera, (the fresgh air would be good for you). There must be something other than a water tower with (whatever they are on the top), then I can write about it's architecture - we could make it the Firenze of Georgia, it would then have a tourist industry, and all thos poor Latinos living there could afford to go home, and you could go to NYC and have an appartment there and just return to Vidalia in the hunting and shooting season! Giano | talk 08:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm out with my camera all the time. I can take a picture of the big ugly tire shop today. Then there are all those 1950's brick buildings -- squat and functional. There are a few interesting buildings (done by untrained architects), but the town has been prosperous for a long time, and so folks tend to get "real" architects. That means that they get trained architects notable solely for working in this area. I can get a picture of a large field of onions, but it won't look very special. I can get pictures of the annual Sweet Onion Festival, which is going to be an attraction during our first annual Philological Association meeting (where I'll be presenting a paper on Henry Carey (writer), but I won't have to call him "(writer)." Meanwhile, I have to figure out something to write by next week for the local historical association.  I can feel it...the legs are growing...becoming a large frog in a small pond (until I'm eaten by a heron).  Geogre 13:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Focus on the native architecture, which I assume are the manufactured homes in the trailer parks. I'm sure Giano could whip up some beautiful prose on those. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:07, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever seen Marxist architectural criticism? It exists. For example, in America, our banks look like our churches, and our schools look like our prisons. Here, though, locally, everything looks like a flat little brick building, unless it has wheels on it, and then it looks like an aluminum shoe box. It is respectable to live in a trailer here, so long as it's a trailer on your own land. Geogre 03:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You Americans are such snobs - how can you say that when you all refer to your gardens as "yards"! Our "caravans", note the nicer more floral word, often have porticos and chimneys disguised as cupolas.  Never mind I shall be with you all this evening! Giano | talk 07:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

It is entirely impossible to mistake the patch of broken glass, brambles, and urine-soaked dirt in front of a trailer for a garden. It is much nearer to a yard inhabited by yardbirds. Meanwhile, your caravans never seem to arrive nor sell any goods, while our trailers may not always be following anything, but they are always the end of the line. Geogre 13:32, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Reliable sources: Self reference
Oh high king, oh virile god, bless us with your goodness! Come down from your ivory tower and put reason where there's rudeness. Of sources webby I beg disdain and caution all around, Pearls of wisdom are much needed, for few there are now found.

brenneman {T} {L}  02:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

A little doggerel goes a long way, eh?

Robert Gould
With delight I read your edition of the Gould poem at wikisource, but more so your footnotes in short passage in the Gould article. (I came across the article when linking my own edition of Gould's satire on money and corruption http://www.pierre-marteau.com/editions/1693-corruption.html to your biographical entry at Wikipedia. A couple of months ago there was no information extant on the web and I created a short page at Marteau to fill the gap, now your article is far better than my own and I linked my edition rather to your page than my own.

In case you want to offer a graphically more sophisticated edition of the poem on Women in html consider to do that at Marteau (you'd be your own publisher with us, all copyrights remaining entirely yours). The interesting thing would be the commentary. Take a look at my Gould and click at * s to see what I did with notes in the frame version and with Gould's brackets in the text. Html has advantages and I'd enjoy you among the Marteau folk, --Olaf Simons 22:26, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you getting my e-mails?
Are you getting my e-mails? Have you e-mailed me in the last few days? The uni mailserver is down. Bishonen | ノート 02:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC).


 * I got your e-mail of yesterday, but I was dead. I'm not sure I'm alive today, except that I seem to be moving, which is not conclusive proof.  I had an all-work-day gig, and then car repairs, and then, at night, wishing the buzz of life would go away, then a basketball game that couldn't proceed if I didn't watch it, and then straight to bed.  I won't say anything about whether I'm alive today, because the messages are mixed.  Geogre 13:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No disasters, at least, then? I'm relieved. Take care of those vital signs. Bishonen | ノート 13:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC).
 * I'm also too far behind on everything. I'm supposed to be speaking to people on Thursday, and then there is always, always grading.  I'm past the "oh shit" stage on that. I lost my office: I now have no on-campus office at all, and that hasn't helped my opinions or outlook any.  How can they do that, you wonder? Lack of professionalism, I answer.  And a website says that I look like Orson Welles.  Geogre 14:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh! Link link link link link link link link link link ! :-D By e-mail perhaps. (Remember the uni's down.) I guess if it was me, my take on that comparison would depend on what stage of OW's life. He looked great when he was young. (Fat, but good fat.) Oh, somebody's moved into my office. I'm not kidding. Joined me there. They did it so gradually, there was never a good moment to object. Bishonen | ノート 14:36, 11 March 2006 (UTC).

I think I didn't keep the links. The website is pretty coarse in its algorhythm. However, Welles got Rita Haywood, so that's not bad: beauty and one of the smartest women in Hollywood. He was, apparently, sexy/mysterious rather than good looking. So, take away both the mystery and sex appeal for me, and probably the comparison is apt. Geogre 15:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Kommunal miljøstasjon to you, too! How come you're Norwegian now? --Bishonen | ノート 18:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC).

I thought that was Dutch, so obviously I'm not. Then there was Swedish. I got an electric shaver, and it told everyone in the world to throw away the batteries properly. I figured that the same would be true of beer and tequila. What do you think about the issues of publishing a Gould text? I'm heavily considering it, as I'm so tired of holding onto these poems and having no one in the world read them. Geogre 19:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Need help finding a lost pair a dice
I've just completed an attempted repair at Paradise Lost of, what I took to be, some old vandalism from August 7, 2005. God (or Satan) knows whether I've done this correctly, not being up on my Milton scholarship. I'd appreciate it if you (or one of you other literary types), would please check my work. Thanks. &mdash; Paul August &#9742; 22:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Virtual Publisher for over 350 Years
Lol, Marteau has a fine wiki. "The Reception which the World Wide Web has met with from the Publick, is an Effect of that Inquisitive Genius peculiar to our Times." Read the Main Page! I say yes, use this. Maybe just for one or two pieces, see how you like yourself there? Bishonen | ノート 23:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC).
 * I will, then, as soon as I get out from some of these obligations. I've been writing my presentation on the immigration/emigration debate of the 18th century with three Ideas of the Wild West, and this is what I'm doing as a palate cleanser for grading, which is my main business for the rest of the day and night.  At least I think I have something slightly more than pedestrian to say about four touchstones of American reference.  (My four spots are Defoe in Moll Flanders, Swift in A Modest Proposal (it's a "very knowing American of my acquaintance" who tells him how juicy babies are), Goldsmith's The Deserted Village and a letter from John Wesley about how St. Simon's Island was worse than Hell itself, and then Robert Bage's Hermsprong with his Natty Bumpo-like wise man.)  Geogre 13:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes, that very knowing American, who could forget him? "Palate cleanser"? You're just ... impossible, Geogre! :-D Do you mean to say you've read Hermsprong? I've always, uh, meant to. But I'm being a bit crushed under an obligation too, a promise to read/copyedit a 400-page translation of Mrs Gaskell's Wives and Daughters. I enjoyed North and South, but after my friend the translator's constant complaining lately about how bad W and D is, I can't say I'm looking forward to it. Hey, I just made the ending and the beginning of Flight of the Turkey meet in the middle, it's all stitched up! :-) I won't ask you to take a look, with how busy you are, but, well, if you need any palate-cleansing, I'd appreciate it! Er, and if not, just two 15-second questions: do you think the Lead is too long? *I* think it is, rather, but it's hard to get the story into less, plus, acc. to Lead section, it's prolly just right. Secondly, would you say "basket" or "gondola"? Now don't let me stress you, feel free to ignore! Bishonen | ノート 16:01, 12 March 2006 (UTC).
 * If you see my most recent edit (to Altamaha River), you can see that I've got my text set for my talk. I'm pretty overwhelmed, but overwhelmed with stuff I don't want to do, so the cleansers are getting more like main courses.  I'd rather read yours than write mine, and I'd rather write mine than grade papers, and that's the heart of the problem, right there.  This is especially the case when I get all juiced up over some imagined critical insight.  I'll share my talk with you by e-mail when I have it done.  I'll examine the turkey and offer an opinion on its head and tail.  Geogre 16:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The lead is of proper length, given how the LEAD thing has changed in recent months and how some of the counting machine voters work (I've seen objections lodged for leads not being 3 paragraphs long!). Yes, I read Hermsprong. It's...  Well, 1/3rd of it is good. 2/3rds of it is predictable Romance novel dreck. Geogre 16:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sigh. Everything I touch goes all wordy.  I was thinking I barely had 10 minutes of talk, and I'm up to 20 already, and I haven't even gotten to Goldsmith yet.  Geogre 19:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Apostrophes

 * You wrote on Talk:Oroonoko:

Apostrophes are used in the plural of dates according to a number of contemporary style sheets (e.g. the New York Times), and it was universally the case that they were required. The loss of these apostrophes is a recent change. Inasmuch as some style sheets demand them and some allow them to be omitted (not disallow them), I use them. Further, I think they make sense. The difference between a 60-s and the 60es is the apostrophe. The difference between some car known as a BMWS and several cars known as BMW's is the apostrophe. Apostrophe's indicate that a plural marker is intended by the s, as opposed to another letter in the acronymn or number sequence. Geogre 21:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to put them back in if you prefer them. I don't, because I try to follow Wikipedia's manual of style, not NYT ' s. However, ending a word with  ' s indicates not a plural but a possessive. For example, the plural of apostrophe is apostrophes, not apostrophe's; the latter is simply wrong, in any style guide. (And acronymn is a spelling mistake, but let's not quibble!) —Serein 21:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, let's not, as an apostrophe indicates a contraction. In fact, if you know the language, you'll know that, in fact, the apostrophe genitive is because of the loss of an e, usually, in the former genitive. "Morones" became "Moron's," and the apostrophe indicates the contraction of that e. In the case of an acronymns (and incidentally, I invite you to look again before you pronounce that a spelling mistake), the apostrophe is used to prevent confusion. That is what the grammars that I've used in my classes say, and it is my professional opinion. I don't consider shaking articles through a sieve to be constructive edits, but we all perform according to our own lights, I suppose. Geogre 01:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Friendly American
Can I ask you whether I am being as much an uncompromising idiot here as I am being painted? I happen to think that putting large chunks of primary source material in an article is wrong, but this is apparently "ridiculous", and maintaining my objection ("a sticking point") is "going against consensus" and "absolutely refus[ing] to compromise". Do you think I have a point or not?

I'm also not entirely sure where the accusation of false humility comes from: I'm just this guy, y'know.... -- ALoan (Talk) 20:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't have any problem with false modesty, so I'll weigh in. It's not really up to me to say whether you have a point or not.  You have a right to object.  I actually think you are right in this case: the original text doesn't need to be in there.  It's silly to go to the full original text in the case of a document that famous.  More, there are some naive people going ape on FAC by trying to argue.  That's not nice and not good practice.  Don't reply.  Just tell 'em your objection remains.  You don't have to please anyone else there.  That said, I think it's something I wouldn't object to unless the article were short without it or lacked sufficient discussion.  I haven't read the article yet.  Geogre 21:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I had not really expected you to come riding to my rescue, you know (although thanks for doing so nonetheless) - I was on the point of writing a pithy reply and then wondered if I was being ridiculous in the face of so much adulation.  I would rather not object, but I really can't see the point of quoting the whole thing. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * As I say, I'm not sure it's "object" worthy, but if the primary matter is a significant percentage of the article it surely would be. I wasn't really trying to ride over the hill in rescue as much as stop the horrible arguing on FAC.  It's ridiculous!  If someone makes an error of fact, then correct it.  If the authors feel the objection is one they do not wish to act upon, then so be it.  Raul may promote the article anyway.  I just think this, "You must agree with me!" stuff is out of control.  It happens on VfD.  It  happens on the template stuff.  It happens all over, and none of it is persuasion.  It's all an attempt to coerce.  As Samuel Butler said, He who complies against his will/ Is of his own opinion still.  Geogre 02:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Richard Prisk of The Manifesto
Both articles I have made, regarding Richard Prisk, and his band The Manifesto, were deleted by you.

These articles were perfectly valid and didn't deserve deletion

Has your "title" in the world of wikipedia made you hungry to delete perfectly fine articles?

I'm dissapointed that you are held in such high regard in this community, and as long as you stay a member, you have an enemy in me Drfool 21:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh no! (You could conform to Wikipedia's conventions and contribute useful material.)  Geogre 01:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

A poor limp rag doll?
I'm happy you're feeling better, hun, even if you're reduced to a poor limp convalescent rag doll (this I deduce). Bishonen | ノート 22:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Indeed, I am, at most. When my eyes are open, they're glazed.  They're closed most of the time, though.  The good news is that I'm losing weight.  This is because I have no appetite at all.  It's a pretty serious infection.  Speaking of dolls, I need to find out who has that voodoo doll of me and get it away from him or her.  I'm going back to work tomorrow, regardless.  I'm planning on the improvement curve remaining the same, and, even if it doesn't, I feel like I owe my students their teacher.  What an inopportune and nasty infection, though.  Geogre 02:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * But then you'll just assign them work that you'll end up having to grade. Nobody wants that. Ugh, I really hope you feel better soon Geogre. I was looking around for some image or other that said "get well", and I was browsing through pudding, because everybody likes chocolate pudding when they are sick, but I couldn't find anything good, so here's another type of pudding that I hope you find just apropos enough to a masculine medical condition. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That's hilarious, and it helps my appetite, too. Goodness.  What on earth is Heinz putting in its cans, and where is it finding the supplies?  The improvement curve is less acute today, and it's nearly a straight line, so now I'm faced with going in to work to give work that I won't feel like seeing again.  My plan is to have one class write drafts and have the other take an objective test.  Objectives take no time at all to grade.  Geogre 12:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Would I be right in thinking that Cædmon comes within your sphere of competence? It is up on FAC, along with a little something in which I had a hand. -- ALoan (Talk) 03:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * In fact, when I saw that Caedmon was up, I was going to read it, and then I saw that it immediately had all of this ... chatter ... on the FAC. The gnat inspectors seemed to already be there, and I hardly felt capable to looking at my watchlist, much less getting chest deep in one of those disputes.  I want there to be an FA on Caedmon (supposing that there is enough to say about him...it's all Bede, so far as I know, and literary significance, and the Bede account is very short, and the literary significance is "NOR" stuff, even if it ain't OR).  I'll look at both as soon as I stop seeing snakes and swarms of flies dancing a rondeau just on the other side of the lenses of my glasses.  Geogre 12:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Rag Doll? Somehow that's not how I picture you, Geogre. KillerChihuahua?!? 13:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * More voodoo doll. I want to find out whoever it is who has the voodoo doll of me and tell him that, if he was aiming that pin at my butt, he missed, and if he was aiming it at my other bits, he missed those, too, but he was definitely in the areacode.  Actually, I think there may be multiple dolls at this point, as I'm also getting all sorts of random bleeding (which doesn't surprise me or alarm me).  Geogre 14:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

VooDoo, like so. I comprehend. I also comprehend not being surprised at random bleeding... alarmed may indicate you are level-headed and not prone to panic, or it could indicate a complete mental breakdown. Please tell me you are at least concerned about this development. I most assuredly am, hence my (so far fruitless) efforts to make you smile, or possibly even chuckle. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah! You have done well at the smile and chuckle, but I'm rather chuckleheaded at this point.  (I take blood thinners for yet another medical thingie, so when spontaneous bleeding happens, I'm more likely to curse it as annoyance than scream in fear at it.  In this particular case, the likely increase in bioavailability of the warfarin I take due to hepatocyte occupation by the Cipro is certain to decrease vitamin K-dependent clotting factor abundance.  In the presence of any other irritant, such as rhinitis or sinusitis or, of course, the infection I already am taking the Cipro for, it's just something to be tolerated, although an adjustment to the warfarin dose is indicated.)  (I can also talk like a cop, a lawyer, and an auto mechanic.  You should hear my impersonation of a frat boy in Cancun!)  I will now have to make a doll of that VooDoo and figure out where the pins go.  (Then there is the ATi Voodoo video card, but I think my own videocard is a proprietary Sony thing, since I have a VAIO.)  (Just trying to see how many links I can generate, you know, without linking random words.)  (Also, it's an IQ test for me to open as many parentheses as possible.  If I close them all, I'm not back to normal.)  Geogre 17:46, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Jesus Geogre you're taking rat poison! Didn't you notice the little skull and crossbones on the label? I see you are getting excellent medical attention there in the backwoods of Georgia. Or are you self-medicating? Paul August &#9742; 18:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If he were self-medicating he'd a) sound more cheerful and b) be taking something more interesting, like valium or vicodin, instead of that nasty cipro. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua?!? 19:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Ummmm, aaaactually.... See, I have both MScontin and just recently got some Vicodin, but I don't like it (I can sleep on my own, and 400 mg of hydrocodone is enough to send an ADHD kangaroo to sleep). I don't like the MSContin, either, but that's kind of the point. All of my scary conditions got settled by fancy doctors with fancy degrees in plush offices. The doctors in the backwoods look at me like a Jenga stack: they don't want to touch anything, for fear of it all falling over (and their getting blamed). To tell the truth, I'm at about 75% speed now. The Cipro really is doing great things. (No "Great Balls of Fire" jokes, please.) One girlfriend complained of trying to find gifts for me, and I said, "Yeah, I'm a guy who has everything." Well, everything except health insurance, but, according to the Republican Party, this only means that I'm free, and that I have chosen not to have health insurance and that the system works. What system, I don't know, but it seems to work best when greased with blood. Geogre 03:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * /me wakes briefly, confusedly but cheerfully shouts "I like codeine!" and falls asleep immediately. Bishonen | ノート 03:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC).


 * Whoooo! Party at Geogre's place! Oh, wait, my wife already has her own stockpiles of MSContin and dilaudid. She sneers at Vicodin; she can't believe it has any effect at all on anyone. Did you ever try the patch? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * See, now they shot me up with dilaudid, and I had the most amazing technicolor, widescreeen dreams ever. I thought, "Hmm, I can see why people like this too much."  It reminded me of the idiopathic effect Ultram had on me.  I haven't tried the patch, and I'm really on baby doses of long-term pain killers, which, of course, is where one wants to be.  Back in the day when I was on oxycontin, I used to hear that "on the street" it was going for $100 per pill, and I'd look at my finances and think...hmmmm...funny what the free market can do...but then the superego would kick in, and I'd do nothing at all except make another excuse to my landlord.  Geogre 14:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Can I have some dreams besides IMAX movie, Harry Pothead style flights? That has been my presleep request to myself for the last few days. I mean, I'm trying to conserve some adrenlin for the impending armed-struggle here! I won't bore you with the bizzare details, (well, if you insist...) except to say that in the most memorable one, where I get the power of flight gradually (starting with hopping via flapping my arms around and ending with full Harry Pothead broom flights, except more compotent than him and no broom, and full telekinesis as well as some telepathy and precognition), my scores of mentally-chained enemies were hurling a train at me (with their mind, which was sorta glowing), various carts at a time, hundreds of feet in the air at supersonic speeds, while I was hovering effortlessly hundreds of feet above ground, and with great effort was blocking the throws and placing them one at a time back on track (with my mind, which was definitely glowing!) in mixed order and sometimes backward, but crucially, without any train passengers being hurtsted in the making of this dream &mdash; during that particular scene, a whiff of a thought entered my mind (well, if it didn't it should have): "this is better visuals than the best movie I will ever see!" And I havn't even touched on the dark portal/gate of flux! It was such a stunning &mdash;and bizzare&mdash; dream, I actually wrote down a narrative of its contents immediately upon waking up. Well, I gotta go now, but I'll try to followup this comment with a more in-depth one soon. Sorry for being so brief! El_C 15:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Golly, that's awfully...linear. My own dreams tend to be somewhat less, oh, how to put this? clear?  I had one where there was a 16 oz. Pepsi Cola bottle (non-returnable) that was half filled with brackish water.  It had a tuft of hair sticking out of the neck.  It was telepathic, and it was my son, and I was very proud of its accomplishments.  I wish mine would feature a hero or foe once in a while.  Geogre 18:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Heroine, actually. I neglected to mention that I was female throughout most of the dream, often two females. I didn't even clue I mostly wasn't male throughout it until after waking up, with the transition appearing to be during a scene where I'm trying to win the heart of a girl named Natasha, who is already taken (she was seeing Senator's son!), so she's jogging but she's got some distance on me, and how I caught up to her was by flapping my arms and hopping (when I say flapping, I mean this stretching exercize I often use, whereby one begings with a clap, then rotate both hands all the way around back to the clap – I'm not sure what it's called in English, I'm not sure what it's called in Hebrew, either, maybe it dosen't have a name; will consult pertinent persons privy to the Shaolin ways tonight). Anyway, we end up in a field where I think I achieve some limited success, but then a really erratic scene develops, wherein a brown rabbit is being chased by the skunk, and the skunk ended up biting me in the ass, and it hurt. I swear by the revolutionary ideals I hold most dear, I am not making any of this up! At any rate, after that scene I was increasingly more female/s than male (not transexually-wise, but just instances where I'm either male or female), until seemingly the anima had fully taken over, as mentioned climaxing with the train finale. And after I woke up and was still in bed & trying to put everything in that dream together, I look over at my cat (sleeping soundly at the corner of the bed), and I said: "you're the skunk, kitty!" (because he's black & white!). But let me pause from this self-absorption for a moment and comment on your dream. It sounds fascinating, actually. Most of all, I'm interested to learn why you were proud of your non-returnable Pepsi Cola bottle of a son; that is, what has he actually accomplished? Back to me. I should note that the train dream happned the morning after I spent most of the night in a sweatlodge with this native woman (the lodge is outside her house, which is in the middle of nowhere), and during the sweat, we were drinking teas whose origins I was not able to identify... I'm looking forward to having another session there, though it's a bit of a drive, well worth it. All this reminds me how much I miss having fully lucid dreams (which the above was far from), though they usually consist of pretty much the same thing: I think of forests/mountains/lakes/vallyes/etc., then I fly through them (and sometimes, outerspace: flying at beyond Cpeeds through suns, nebulas, etc., and sometimes, under-the-sea, under-the-sea). I wonder why it's been so long, unless I had one & forgot it, but I usually remember them... Hmm... Well, I have to get glowing again, this was more brief of a note than I intended (I wanted to, at least, cover the dark portal/gate of flux, which was quite interesting/bizzare, esp. audio-wise; will try to do so soon). But, just to stress that this dream was not as linear as my above synopsis of the train scene suggests (and even that scene itself was far from linear, though admittedly, strikingly superheroic & cʟIMAXic). El_C 02:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Why? Why?  How many 16 oz. non-returnable Pepsi bottles do you know that master telepathy?  That's a hell of a thing.  It makes a father proud.  Geogre 03:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Best wishes from moi, Geogre! El_C 13:52, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You know, though, I was a pinko before I was one of the army of the freely uninsured.  Then, when it came time to find out how free I was, it only strengthened my convictions.  Geogre 14:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hopefuly, you can somehow find a way to leech universal healthcare from the Canadians before they privatize theirs to meet the demands of the imperialist slavemasters for more money they don't need in order to invest (with maximum subsistence-level efficiency for the masses who create this wealth) it in getting more money they don't need, so as to accumulate more capital for the sakes of accumulating more c... Erm, I mean: In Soviet Czechoslovakia, the L-39 Vodochody flies YOU! El_C 15:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * But we must have surplus credit, or the proles will figure out that wage does not equal cost. Question: why must capitalist economies always grow?  Answer: because they are inherently disequilibrious, and only growth prevents the disequilibirium from matching Marxist predictions.  In the case of health care, a Pharma representative actually said that Americans pay far too much so that the companies can have the profits for research (and because no one else will).  Now, given that most drugs come out of basic research started at the National Institutes of Health and various NIH grants, one might suppose that they are parasites who have taken over the host, or one might think that they're the epitome of freedom (TM).  Geogre 18:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Gentlemen will please refrain
 * From making water while the train
 * Is standing station-airy at the platform.
 * Hoboes lying underneath
 * Will get it in the eyes and teeth
 * And they won't like it any more than you-do.
 * Bishonen | ノート 17:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC).

This train ain't moved all day, and when you gotta glow, you gotta glow. Geogre 18:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, am I taking up this Question? I'm hesitant in overindulging the moment; water, when steamed, is especially purifying, dangerous. El_C 02:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

So they say, but I rarely see anything but red when I'm steamed. Geogre 03:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Geogre, Paul was kind enough to clue me in to your recent (and, it appears, ongoing) illness; I'm glad however that rumours of your impending demise seem greatly exaggerated. ;-) Do take care, though; it does not sound to me to be very run-of-the-mill, and it's nice to know you've consulted someone. By the way, the epitomes of freedom(TM) offer a reasonable defense when challenged regarding NIH funding; the argument even has the added advantage of being quite true. The NIH mainly funds "basic science" studies; the epitomes tackle clinical trials (ie. when you put the stuff scientists find into human guinea pigs subjects) in addition to drug discovery work. Now, basic research is expensive stuff—but clinical trials even more so. So their argument is, yes, the NIH funds studies that are crucial to drug discovery—but we finish the job. Without us you'll just have your molecules.

This is irritatingly more or less true. — Encephalon 16:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Gosh, I almost forgot—thanks so much for your recent support, Geogre. I deeply appreciated it. — Encephalon 16:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

De nada. As for the epitomes of Freedom (TM), their argument is specious, since Pharma ends up employing the very same state U. labs to conduct the clinical trials. They fund the trials, I agree, and they fund all the advertising, but part of this has been because of a decrease (oddly commensurate) with NIH decreases in funding to clinical trials. (Odd how that works.) The point is that not only does it not have to be the way it is, the system in fact wants to cut Pharma out and has to be pushed to its present dimensions. Phase I trials are almost always done in hospitals (our tax dollars at work). Phase II may be done either in research facilities or hospitals. I agree that they're expensive. I just don't agree that what Pharma gets for its money entitles them to devote 70% of their revenues to advertising nor to price all compounds at price points just shy of where the patient would rather suffer than pay. It would take less to make it better than to let it remain the way it is, and there are harms adhering to the present system (buried rats that had taken Vioxx and Warfarin, e.g., or buried rats taking Zoloft while adolescent; when it is the corporation's responsibility to admit nothing and to maximize profits, and when corporate officers can be sued by share holders for honesty, corporations are very untrustworthy doctors). Geogre 20:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * ARISE GEOGRE I HAVE CURED YOU! Right that's settled then, I've had a enough of this limp rag doll business - just supposing limpness became a permanent condition - where would you be then? - Very unhappy that's where.  Good! now you're feeling better get up and blow those cobwebs away and go and vote on Simon Byrne's FAC (he's dead, so just think how lucky you are!)  It has hundreds of inline cites so I'm sure you can find something amusing to sat while you are SUPPORTING, don't even think of not supporting because what I have cured I can uncure (do we understand each other) in Sicily we think that something limp is best amputated. Giano | talk 20:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the vote Geogre - What a lovely spontaneous surprise. Gad your feeling stronger! Giano | talk 11:38, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Now now - solicitation is distinctly non-U. On the other hand, the saintly Jack Sheppard could do with some help, as a counterbalance to the demonic Jonathan Wild. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:20, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * He absolutely does need help. My problem is that once again this section's header is accurate: my health has taken a sharp downward turn.  I suppose the DNB entry on Sheppard might be informative.  Right now, it looks like we've gotten little pieces from here and there, with some contradictions.  I'll put it at the top of my research list.  Geogre 14:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Drury Lane Map, as requested
Check out my handiwork on Theatre Royal, Drury Lane. I also uploaded a nice high resolution Map of 1700 London if you ever need something like that. PS Feel better damn it! &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Lovely - "la Croix de Charing" "Champ de l'Incoln Inn" "Convent Jardin" "Porte Ald" "Blooms Berry" "Eglise de la fosse de Shore" "Rue de la Chapelle Blanche" "King Sington" "Descente Secrete" (not very secret now...) ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 23:10, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, uh, and did I mention, it was a French map? ;-) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * -) "Invading Frenchman's Guide to London, prepared by Angus McJacobite?"  Sweet.  I need a thing like that about every day.  In particular, Fleet Ditch to Ludgate will be important to The Dunciad.  Geogre 00:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and for feeling better, I'm not sure. It appears to be a real relapse. The good news is losing 12 lbs. in a week. The bad news is losing that because of the appetite suppression of high fevers. Geogre 00:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Grapes, what a marvelous looking article! Will you include anything on the famous Gray Man, I can provide a few sources for him if you need anything. I may use your pic of the Wren plans for the theatre as a featured pic for Portal:Theatre. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 17:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! All credit to Bishonen on that pic; I just made a version of it with cleaner-looing arrows. The Grey Man is one of the ghosts haunting the theatre? I suppose I'll have to include something about that nonsense, sure. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, he's certainly one of the more famous ghosts in Britain. He appears, wearing 18th century garb, in the galleries of the theatre. His appearance during a production is considered quite lucky and shows where he appears are quite successful. If I remember the story correctly during one of the many renovations, the skeleton of a man in 18th century dress was found with a dagger between his ribs. In addition, the ghost of Joseph Grimaldi still appears on the stage tap dancing away. When Oklahoma debuted in London at the Drury Lane in 1947, Dorothea McFarland, who played Ado Annie, was having a bad night but soon felt hands on her back guiding her around the stage. She gave one of her best performances that night. When I get home (I'm at work and on Wikipedia instead of doing something productive...oh well), I see what sources I can find in regards to these stories. Hey, I'm a superstitious thespian, what can I say? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a solid article, alright, and it points to how poor the sources are for theatrical history. Well, not poor as much as weak, I guess. We have good coverage in print for anecdotal stuff and legends, but getting solid histories of the houses, the market forces, etc. is tough. After all, a theater is not a building: it's a set of directors, actors, and audiences. To write about a theater in that regard is tough. It's great to see an article attempting to do on Wikipedia what none of the books even do. Geogre 23:54, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

American Pie
Hey, Geogre, a nugget for you: American Pie is on FAC, in case you want to take a look and get into a little argufying. Bishonen | talk 18:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC).
 * By the time I can even look, its weakness has been sensed and its throat has been ripped out. (A thing I'd have to do, too.  Hey, I know what the lyrics mean, but it's one of those songs, like "Stairway to Heaven," where the usefulness of the song is that people argue and get all poetic with the lyrics.  No point in explaining to people why their readings are weak on Wikipedia; no good could come of it.)  Geogre 13:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday, darling! Have la creme de la creme of my sweets collection! Bishonen | talk 13:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC).


 * Thanks, although I don't want you to give up all your sweets. You might need some some day.  Yesterday was miasma and muck, much of it, I'm sure, from my own expectations of sunshine and greenery.  Today, I'm still peevish, and I'm supposed to go drivin' Miss Daisy.  Oh, well.  I've responded as I often do, by writing up articles on the forgotten dead.  Geogre 15:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)



Oh, felicitations!

Now, is Mary Hearne related to the Hearne family, do you think? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You know, I'd be surprised if she's related to anyone at all, but perhaps all those cricketeers were using assumed names, too. Perhaps they weren't related but were, instead, the cricketing version of The Ramones?  Today was Dod* articles, but I forgot to look up Dodsley, the publisher, who actually would have had some import.  Geogre 15:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Isn't that amazing, we almost share a birthday - so felicitations of the day. On the other matter - As a fellow Ariesian, just trust me! Why doesn't your email work anymore? Giano | talk 21:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Dunno. It should work.  When they did a massive change to the main page, they also changed defaults on a lot of things, so articles I create are now automatically watchlisted for me, for example, which had not been the case.  Maybe e-mail got turned off too?  I've heard, now, about the other matter.  Achilles has gone to her tent for a bit.  My birthday isn't the 7th, but it's near there.  Anyway, I'm glad that it isn't the 7th, as I appear to have a bit of crud clinging to me after cleaning out the candidates for speedy deletion.  Geogre 02:23, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy Birthday, Mr. Geogre! Early last year Bish gave me some petit fours. They looked really good but I didn't eat them. So, since it's your birthday, i'll pass them to you. They may be a bit stale, but they still should be enjoyable! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 00:18, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I lost 14 lbs. from the fevers associated with my recent (and ongoing) miseries, but I'm in danger of getting all that back and more with the treats on this page. Maybe the petit fours have fermented and gone rummy.  That's a thought.  Geogre 02:23, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, it appears that an illiterate is dedicated to vandalizing my user page. You know, it's so much easier to write worthwhile articles than to keep logging out, logging in, and then trying to vandalize a user page. Just wastes of energy, really, and one can hope that they take the same energies and find a nearby wall to headbutt: the effect will be the same, and the result will be quicker. Geogre 02:23, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Smallpox
You've written a brief biographical note on Dr Pierce Dod. Nothing in it makes him out to be an opponent of smallpox inoculation. He made a case report of one instance in which the treatment failed (did he do th einoculating or was it someone else?). He appears to have been uncivilly received, but it doesn't seem to have done that much harm to his reputaiton if he became a fellow of the RS later. Is there more on this? I'd be surprised if there was a trreatment that didn't fail occasionally for various reasons, and surprised if there were not case reports of it, but none of that adds up to opposition. Midgley 00:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * No, he was RCP, FRS before he made the report. Inoculation had been common-ish since 1725.  Twenty years later, Dod writes against inoculation.  In fact, the pamphlet was nine cases against inoculation, but only one of them would have been any argument against inoculation.  I.e. it was so poorly executed that there were no charges to answer in 8 of 9 cases.  The 9th case was reported to him by letter.  He didn't treat the patient himself.  Thus, the three doctors who answered him actually went to examine the patient, and they argued that the 2nd infection wasn't even small pox, but, even if it had been, that wouldn't have been an argument against inoculation.  Dod was severely damaged by this.  He was at that point a very, very respected figure of the old way of treating small pox, and he represented a recalcitrant opposition.  I wrote up his account primarily to make the point that some of the medical establishment opposed the new treatment, either out of cupidity or because of misunderstanding (and both could have been at play in the case of Dod).  I believe the dates of his membership of the RCP and the RS are mentioned in the article, and both are about 20 years prior to his pamphlet.  Basically, he should have kept his mouth shut, but he risked his reputation by taking a very shaky stance, and he did it in a very stupid way, and he got slapped back, hard.  Geogre 02:03, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, and as for the characterization in the summary sentence as "opponent of inoculation," that's because that's how he has come down to us. Had he not written that pamphlet, he probably would not be remembered at all, but he is remembered for his taking part in the inoculation debate, and taking part in it in a very clumsy way.  I don't know if he mistrusted inoculation because he liked collecting fees, but he didn't have clinical evidence against it that was worth anything.  However, the purpose of the pamphlet was to counter the practice of inoculation.  Geogre 02:06, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Would you still like to get rid of Sollog article?
You wrote a long time ago in regards to the Sollog article: "Delete: Hack-magnet (meaning that it is inherently POV because of the adherents) and ongoing self-promotion using all free Internet media, and that includes us. We are not an advertising medium (i.e. it is not of sufficient worth in itself to go through NPOV wars). Subject is snake oil."

I was wondering if you might still be interested in seeing the Sollog article deleted, or perhaps moved (with talk pages) to BJAODN? A number of editors have now suggested that this article does not deserve to be on Wikipedia because Sollog is a non-entity whose only claim to fame is that he annoying trolled on Usenet and Wikipedia in order to gain attention and draw links to his deathporn sites. A couple of people now have agreed that moving it to BJAODN might be a good idea. If you are still interested in the Sollog article at all, even if your opinion has changed, I would appreciate your comments at Talk:Sollog under the section "An idea for Vivaldi: move this entire thing to BJAODN". Thanks for your time and consideration. Vivaldi 00:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Clothette
You speedy deleted Clothette (log). The author, a newcomer, wondered where it went. I restored it, and will keep an eye on it.--Commander Keane 18:56, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't tag it for Speedy Delete, although I did execute it. It still looks awfully like a simple fact and a dictionary definition to me.  I never doubted that it was real, but I did wonder whether it was a proper article.  I'll leave it be, but I still think it's a simple fact that belongs in another, longer article, rather than as a stand-alone byte of information.  Geogre 19:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

List of shock sites nominated for deletion for a fourth time
The article List of shock sites has been nominatied for deletion again. I noticed that during its past nominations for deletion you voted to have the article deleted. If you have time, please support me in my attempt to have this article deleted by casting your vote in favour of deletion. Thank you. - Conrad Devonshire 07:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have no idea how that thing survived before, but its prior survival is no indication of its validity.  Living to old age does not indicate a virtuous life, after all.  Geogre 14:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Cleanness
Hi Geogre. Just letting you know that I have merged information from Cleanness (poem) into Cleanness. As the changes are fairly dramatic I thought you might like to go over the article. Yours, Rje 17:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. I've done some copy editing, and it's fine by me now.  I think, interestingly, someone had overwritten Cleanness from a dictdef to a description of the poem after I had written an article on the poem.  Oh, well.  As long as the redirects work, it's fine.  Geogre 17:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The Pillory page
Please reinstate the Pillory's page. It is a satire magazine at the College of William and Mary. Why did you delete it?

That's about it for why and what. Geogre 01:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The magazine, if legitimate, should be discussed at William and Mary College, as all campus magazines are discussed at their colleges.
 * 2) The title is entirely non-unique, and far more people typing in "the pillory" will be looking for a discussion of the stocks than for the magazine.
 * 3) I didn't delete it. I redirected and protected, leaving the content in history so as to provide an easy move in the future, if necessary.
 * 4) William and Mary College has been blocked from editing Wikipedia due to the staggering amount of vandalism and nonsense added today. System administrators from William and Mary will need to contact us regarding an expiration of the block.
 * 5) Wikipedia works by volunteers, and yet we are held to a high standard of credibility. Therefore, if people are putting in things that are even doubtful, those things cannot stay.  If you find other things that are bogus or suspect, please list them at wp:afd.
 * 6) The article had no evidence, no citation, and no way to verify its claims.

Peak Ammo
Why was the peak ammo page I created deleted?
 * I'm thinking -- just possibly -- because Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a vehicle for satire? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * What was described in the article was not satire, it is an actual occurance.

See #5 and #6, above. Geogre 10:27, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Geez man Rome was not built in a day. I'm sure there are plenty of great articles here on Wikipedia that were started with far less than I posted on this article. And yet it had not been on for more than a day when it was deleted. Please undelete it and give me a week, I'll get yall some more links and evidence of this phenomena. --Jack DeLeon 05:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Uncanny makeup skills
This is the page I was trying to refer to on the phone. See how the "joke alert" makes it fun-nee. :-( But I guess that can't be helped, in a place that's too holy to feature an April Fool's joke. IMO you should dig out your own rouge portrait, you know the one I mean, to replace the makeup image there, as it is the wrong kind of makeup. The person seems more to be a member of the Eyeshadow Admin Posse. Bishonen | talk 11:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC).


 * Ah-ha! I had searched for the images in the past, and I couldn't remember what I had called the darned thing.  I'm pleased to see it spread, although I still think that victims and relatives of victims of the actual Red Brigades could be a little offended.  So far, so good.  Geogre 12:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, looking at my own useful "dynamic list" link on my page, under "Transparency of admin conduct", it strikes me that you could find your own image uploads by checking your upload log also, if you like. With this baby. (I stole mine, set to "all logs", from Everyking's page.) Bishonen | talk 02:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC).
 * I guess. Even though I keep an obsessive brag list, I also like to maintain that illusion of aristocratic disdain for taking credit, so I feel like checking to see what I've uploaded is somehow non-U.  That's wrong, of course, and I'm a hypocrite.  I've thought about making a subpage gallery, although that's very non-U, esp. given the spirit of the GFDL and everything.      Geogre 03:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Surely it will be gibberish, or boring, but not both at once? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have talent for these things. However, speaking of which, I was looking for something soporific to read before bedtime, and so I naturally went to read one of my very old de novo articles.  See Nicholas of Flue.  Looks horrible, doesn't it?  Look at the history.  Hmm.  A red user account name did a lot of editing.  Compare before and after that red user name.  Gosh.  So, do I revert it all the way back, or would that be mistaken for trying to own an article?  I haven't any diplomacy or time for soft words just now, so I'll leave it be.  Geogre 03:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm looking. I've actually snorted out loud during the first screenful, perhaps not a good sign for the current version. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow. Wow. This was a tough call. So bad, yet apparently actually sourced. Editing down the fluff, nongrammatical bits, and unencyclopedic material would take twelve hours and wind up with a page much like the original. I reverted it. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * For that, please award yourself a Rosse Administratte ensignia. What a weird, weird case that one was.  There were prayers.  There were stern reminders of our Christian duty.  The problem is that none of that was appropriate here, even if it was true, even if it was derived from sources.  This is one more case that illustrates the fact that Wikipedia is not the venue for negotiating ultimate truth: it is just a place that reports on what other people say is true, and then only to the degree that the articles maintain neutrality and never advocate.  (Lots of bold text and many ===headers=== and more bold text all looked like a recreation of a Catholic website's presentation of the matter, right down to the references, and I thought that, perhaps, there was a copyvio back there somewhere.)  Thanks for taking a look.  The editor was certainly ernest.  Geogre 10:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * BOG did a good job of separating wheat from chaff, but I have pullled out some more interesting snippets. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you did. I've been looking through all my saints now, wondering if any other editors have been slightly too generous in their grafting in of hagiography.  So far, they're generally unchanged (sad) or buffed up with history (happy).  Zita maintains NPOV, sort of, but you can see where the hagiographic material shows up.  Nothing needs to be done with it, but the temptation to gather material from strictly devotional websites has to be met with a very strong judgment, or the Nicholas of Flue fiasco occurs.  Geogre 10:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Oooh! I thought of a new award!  For the people who un-rouge stuff, there ought to be a Cold cream Admin award that any rouge admin gives to a friend who reduces the block from infinite to a day, for example, on the vandal who turns out to be clueless, or who undeletes the article and puts it on AfD when it was a bad article but not a CSD, or the like.  (Reverting Nicholas wasn't hasty, IMO, as the material the person had was exceptionally gullible.  Switzerland's neutrality from a single utterance of Nicholas's?  That's really outlandish.)  Geogre 11:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

AOL IPs
What web browser do you use? As a former AOL subscriber, I noticed that when I used the AOL software as my web-browser, I was assigned to IPs in the 152 range on a per-page basis, but... if I used Firefox or Interet Explorer, I found that my actual IP address was in the 172 range and it remains static from the start of the connection up until I disconnected, or more frequently, got dropped by the carrier. I never suffered any collateral damage in the 172 range. — Apr. 20, '06 [10:34] <[ freakofnurxture]|[ talk]>
 * I use the Netscape ISP, and I use Mozilla some of the time and Firefox some of the time, but what I've noticed is that my IP seems static-ish for about :15 but changes. It's not on a page-load basis, or I could also escape autoblocker collateral damage by doing a forced reload of a page and at least get autoblocker to give me a different IP message, but it seems to be on some kind of timed basis.  I generally just block my own IP for 0 minutes and go my way, but I'm an admin., non-admins get ticked off and mystified.  Geogre 11:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Ketuanan Melayu
Hey, last time you made some helpful comments on Article 153 of the Constitution of Malaysia's FAC. I thought I'd let you know that this related article (Ketuanan Melayu) is currently on peer review. I'm hoping you can look it over and see if there are any major problems that need to be taken care of. One thing that concerns me is the size, because if this goes on FAC, I'm quite sure at least one person's knee-jerk response will be "Too long -- use summary style please". However, as I explained at peer review, I'm not sure how we could adequately split the article up into subarticles without disrupting the flow. If we could agree at the peer review level whether the article should be broken up or is fine as is, that would be nice. Thanks, even if you don't have the time to read all 15,000 words of the article. :) Johnleemk | Talk 17:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look on Saturday, US east, probably. I'm in the deep weeds with real life work just now, as the semester is ending and that means stacks and stacks of papers demanding grades, but I'll see if I can be of service.  Geogre 00:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Semiprotection
I've Semi-protected your talk page for the moment, Geogre, since the AOL anon appears to be persistent. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. That probably is the best answer for the fellow who has a blog. I did a short block.  Geogre 12:49, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Ido
Fine Ido translation of balloon article! :-D Bishonen | talk 10:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC).


 * Ha! And now, finally, everyone can read it. :-)  Geogre 12:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Us litrate folk kin, anyhoo. KillerChihuahua?!? 20:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Which actually made me think for a moment (bad sign, that) that perhaps I should start a Redneck Wikipedia - Wikipedia-rn, if that isn't taken by some other language. As Geogre is dwelling deep in the heart of Redneck-land, perhaps he'd be a lovely translator and/or copyeditor? (If you cannot decide whether to hate me for that suggestion or laugh, please choose the laughter! If neither appeals to you, my apologies.) KillerChihuahua?!? 20:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Silly me, only being literate in English. As for Redpedia, that's easy: articles on every NASCAR driver, with lots of pictures, and "Buncha fairies" for most other things.  Wolfstar would be good there.  Geogre 21:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * rofl, too accurate. Don't forget beer and wrestling. KillerChihuahua?!? 22:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Rastlin'! By all means, with lurid GLAM (or whatever the hell that silicone breast wrestlin' federation is called) shots, List of NASCAR films and Roddy Piper with filmography. Geogre 00:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Cuisine! Eatins (aka vittles) We must get Bunch involved! Fried bologna sandwiches, fried spam, fried... heck, fried everything, yes? KillerChihuahua?!? 01:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Fride, you mean. Of course fride. There isn't another way to cook, is there? Well, I suppose you can eat things raw, like pee-cans and sweet onions, but if you're fixing to cook it, you need to get the grease hot. Hush puppies, fried okra, chitlins, and pickled pig's feet, yum. For the good old boys and good old girls, you get some spam and just put it on the bread, get a jar of pig's knuckles, and some fried chicken necks. However, all that's kind of quaint among the sunburned set, as Bud has replaced most foodstuffs among both sexes and all classes. Geogre 02:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Most things is best fride. Not evarthin, tho. Thars biled eats, too. Grits, greens (biled greens, doesn't that just make your mouth water?) an then thars poke salad an such which is et fresh. KillerChihuahua?!? 03:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Please don't forget Elvis' famous fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches, with bacon and (according to our article) porridge (?). I think Elvis really is the patron saint of redneck eating. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 03:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I was going to add the infamous deep-fried Twinkie, but, according to our article, the confection was invented in NY. Joe 03:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * "Fride" porridge - gack. Also ought to mention the Scottish cousin of the deep-fried Twinkie, the deep fried Mars bar, bastard offspring of the deep fried pizza, both delicacies invented by our cousins in Glasgow. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, balled food. Yeahman, don't forget the best of all in most every way: balled peanuts. Yankees haven't got a clue how good those are. (My Southern dialect would say "balled" instead of "biled," but, interestingly, the Appalachain dialect known as "hillspar" is beginning to show up in the Piedmont areas of the South as a weird sort of anti-prestige dialect. Good old boys are increasingly speaking with a mountain dialect to tell everyone else that they's rednecks.  30 years ago, it would have been totally unheard and unheard of.)  The other thing, cause we're being sexist now, is casseroles. If it can be et, it can be put in a casserole. Geogre 10:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, ALoan and Joe are right: we're pikers when it comes to fryen. Yankees made up fried cheese, and you simply can't ask for more fat and cholesterol in any more efficient a package than that. We give the world buttermilk biscuits and cane syrup. Yankees give us cheese sticks, and Yankees in the west give us McDonald's. Granted, we embrace 'em both. (And we give the world Eudora Welty, and they give us back Norman Mailer-than-thou.) Geogre 10:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I am now inexplicably hungry for chicken-fried steak and cream gravy. KillerChihuahua?!? 12:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Slippage
I fear that the line between clerk busywork/vanilla user/junior arbom is being blurred, and would appreciate your comments here. brenneman {L}  04:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration
 * Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents
 * Which has now spilled over into blocking policy. I'm fairly certain that being a clerk doesn't mean that you get to block (for violating the 1RR, and without warning) people with whom you've got a long history of conflict, but Phil and Tony seem to disagree.  brenneman  {L}  07:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

AfD advice
Hey, would you consider copying the AfD advice section from your user page and placing it onto a subpage? It'd be helpful to refer people to... ah, people like me, for example. I've been using the AfDs for proof too often. ''' Tijuana Brass ¡Épa! - E@''' 11:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, by the way, I had considered tagging on "...Scarred for Life will be the stage name of my next industrial band" to Bish's talk page, but got lazy. Glad to see somebody else saw that it was just begging to be worked into angry music.  Tijuana Brass ¡Épa! - E@ 11:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I'll do up the "Advice" on a separate page. The thing is, it's ancient by now, and I never did finish it. I had meant to present careful arguments about stand-alones. What folks have got to realize is that it's not about hurting anyone or helping anyone. Being on Wikipedia is not a sign of worth, and not being there is not a sign of disrespect. Too many people, I think, feel as if someone wishing to question an article is an attempt to question the subject. If we're any good and have any level of maturity, we're not interested in harming. We're interested in putting information in the places where it can most help. Thus, an article on a lead singer who is only in one band and doesn't do much is more logically located in the article on the band, and it's not a sign of hate that one feels that way. Similarly, saying that a given game card isn't encyclopedic is in no way an effort to say that it's not fun, not good, not interesting, etc. Sometimes, the problem is that the event hasn't gotten stable enough as an event to be discussed. Sometimes it's that the thing is too implicated in another thing. Sometimes it's that the thing doesn't have enough individual identity to be discussed as a specific. No one, least of all me, wants to dump on anyone's enthusiasm or "destroy" information. We need to organize the information and be sure that we're helping. Anyway, it's been such ages since I've been a VfD regular that, for one thing, I still call it "VfD." :-) Gimme a second, and I'll tell you a subpage name.  Geogre 13:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

New and exciting subpage
Well, alright, maybe not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geogre/AfD In other words User:Geogre/AfD ought to do it. Geogre 13:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good deal, thanks. Maybe, after you get time to clean it up how you'd like it, it'd work well in the Wikipedia space as an essay?  Tijuana Brass ¡Épa! - E@ 07:21, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, sorta. See, I also have been crafting aphorisms in the Geogre's Laws. They allow me to blow off some steam by making satirical observations about Wikipedia and its users, but I don't want to subpage them, as it seems kind of narcissistic to do that. It's kind of self-important, and I hope folks'll agree that, whatever my private opinion of my own wit, I don't like demanding that other people admire it. If anyone wants to come up with a comprehensive advice page for AfD, I'll be delighted to contribute both my page and my efforts in that regard, but I don't really want to thrust myself forward as an expert. I just try to be dispassionate. Geogre 00:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Spam to multiple users (13 of them)
Hi. From comments on Sam Spade's RfC, I got the impression that quite a few users, including you, were in favor of an RFAr on Sam, though no one liked, or perhaps had the time, to be the one to post it. If I were to start a request on the RFAr page, would you be interested in signing as an involved party, and/or write a short statement there? I'm asking because if people have lost interest, there's obviously not much point in my doing it; it would merely distress and aggravate Sam unproductively, which I've certainly no wish to do. I wouldn't supply any examples of my own, as I haven't edited any of "Sam's articles" for a long time (couldn't stand it, that's why I stopped), but would basically simply refer to the RfC. It seems to me that anybody who wanted to endorse such an RFAr could more or less do the same, as the RfC is so complete. It's full of evidence, and its talkpage gives a view of Sam's attitude. I believe that it's important for the encyclopedia and the community that the old dog should learn new tricks, but please don't think I want to put the least pressure on you or anybody else to take part in an RFAr if you'd rather not. Bishonen | talk 02:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC).

Carl Spitzweg
It was this lucid exposition that had me change the picture. (No, I have no idea how the politics of his age show up in his work. Dr Zak 14:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow, thank you! What I have found is that academics find a reason to fight with each other, no matter what.  Economic pressures make the fights nasty (always too few jobs for the people, always youngsters with supple minds emerging), but they can have never so much in common and still denounce one another as the antichrist of learning.  It's all terribly exciting, for a while, and then one realizes that there are people out there getting fired without cause and groped without recourse, and then it starts looking like just another stupid thing done by smart people.  Geogre 15:13, 30 April 2006 (UTC)