User:Halibutt/Archive11

Template talk:Infobox Biography
I'm having some issues on John Vanbrugh. People keep removing the infobox! I think it's quite useful as it does take some hunting to find information about birth places, birth dates and death dates/places in many of the articles. Could you comment on the talk page? - Ta bu shi da yu 02:53, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

:Image:
Czy mozesz mi dać komment na zdieć. Czy musze nazywać jako "fair use" według czebie?

Mozzerati 18:15, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Could you help?
Dear Halibutt, I have an edit war with Irpen concerning Polish names of Ukrainian cities. I find it usefull, if the names of city in all related languages are listed on the first raw of the paper. It's quit reasonable to include Polish names of Ukrainian cities. (No political reasons, just a matter of convenience and completeness of the information). Now I am approaching 3RR. Could you please help me and revert Chernihiv and Kiev articles, unless Polish name is there?

May be we can do something togrthere againsr Irpen's destructive activity?

Regards,--AndriyK 23:06, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would be interested to see Halibutt's response. In fact this was discussed and a near consensus was reached that Polish names should be used in articles about all Ukrainian cities that have place in the Polish history. In many cases they belong to the history of the city part of the article (like Voivodship name). In some cases the Polish names should also be given in the first line. This should be used for the cities, whose Polish name may be found in the English literature, not just in Polish. The most notable is Lviv where Polish name is warranted. It is also warranted for Kamianets-Podilskyi, but that article has a separate paragraph about names and a Polish name is moved there for purely stillistical purposes. In similar fasion, Russian "Varshava" or "Belostok" don't belong to the first line of these articles but perhaps could be used in the history. This was discussed and Halibutt knows the appropriate talk pages. Should we resume this discussion? --Irpen 23:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear Halibutt, I'd suggest you do not discuss with Irpen anything anymore. I tried, but it does not help, unfortunatelly. We have to find another way to newtralize her/his distructive activity.--AndriyK 23:27, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you :) . I will ask you for your support if needed e.g. some sources or references or more information as you seem to know baout Central European history more than me Knyaz 08:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

partition of poland map
your map of the first partition of Poland is somewhat incorrect. It shows that Silesia still belongs to Austria, but Prussia had already conquered Silesia years before.

Also it would be helpful if you put all the place names in English, rather then just some then the rest in Polish

Czy świadomie podałeś datę sierpniową przy głosowaniu o usunięcie przekierownia, chyba że czegoś nie zrozumiałem ?

we're on the english wikipedia here, hence the en. start on the URL, so we type in english here mate, aight? keep the polski to the Polish wikipedia, no one here cares what something says in Polish, or else we'd go on the Polish Wikipedia.
 * I certainly don't mind Polish on talk pages, but the original poster is correct in that this map does present Silesia in Austria, not Prussia. Olessi 05:22, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

the same with the 2nd paritition of Poland map, Silesia is shown In Austria rather then Prussia

I see u havent changed the maps, and u sent me a message a while ago (sorry this isnt my usual computer) stating that u didnt understand what I meant. Well maybe since most of Silesia is in Poland now, and u seem to like Polish history, u should look it up, and more specifically look up the wars of Frederick the Great, that is the War of Austrian Succession and the Seven Years War.

Again another user here would like for u to edit your map to provide correct information. this has gone ignored for many months, and it is getting quite tiresome Jadger 01:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Wieluń
Hello Halibutt, I was hoping you have access to texts that state that the bombing of Wieluń was terror bombing. User Tobias R recently recently cited a source in that article that says it was "strategic" bombing. Molobo 11:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)ppleseed|Appleseed]] 14:12, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Award


I hereby award you, Halibutt, this Barnstar of National Merit for your tireless and countless contributions to articles relating to Poland. That is the first of the bunch you deserve :) Renata3 13:42, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You are welcome. Even if you would be the devil himself, nobody can deny your contributons about Poland. And this is just a small gesture to show I and other wikipedians valua and appreciate your edits. Renata3 02:00, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

What do (and Poland in general) think about the Serbs, their history, culture and other? HolyRomanEmperor 19:49, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Sig fix
Since you lost the tt-talk page link from your sig, check this out: How to fix your signature.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 00:08, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Dziekuje bardzo ze napisales w zwiazku z jezykiem rosyjskim na swej stronie. Wiem dobrze co Polacy w ogole mysla o nas (resp. Rosyjanie, gdybym przypamietal, ze jestem Zydem). --VKokielov 02:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I was talking about your user page. --VKokielov 05:00, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Or on your talk page. You have Wikipedia:Babel, and Russian is in the list.  :)
 * One Estonian man put down "ru-0" just to show how much he likes Russian culture. I told him he shouldn't do such things.  ;)  --VKokielov 05:24, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Polish has thrown up more resistance than any other Slavic language. Have you ever seen one of your declension tables?  ;)  No; it wasn't out of the blue; and would not have been.  --VKokielov 06:38, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Let me use the right keyboard...Mowią, że babka mojej babki (jej nazwisko było Sosnicka), przyjechała z mążem z polskiego kraju, ponieważ było ich wygnano za anti-rosyjską działalność. --VKokielov 18:09, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Bobov and Zolkiev
Hello! I saw hassidic dynasties and some shtetls (sztetele, derfele), but Where is there?? Dubno(Volhynia), Zolkiev, Bobov and Lubavich.

I have a road map of Belarus and Ukraine, but maybe it is small village now.

see also List of Hasidic dynasties.
 * also Morris Rosenfeld(*Boksza), Sidney Myer(*Kryczew, Belarus?), Yosef Rosen, Abraham Zvi Idelsohn, these people is from Litwak world.


 * --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 10:41, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you for Dubno, etc --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 05:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

County or powiat?
I just moved Powiat of Sanok to Sanok County, and after that checking the history I discovered that you carried out the opposite move a few months ago. I guess you might be interested in my rationale for this. It is simply that we should maintain consistency. Currently, the form County X is by far the most common in Category:Land counties of Poland. If we go for the other form, we should change all of them. Balcer 06:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing me to WikiProject Geography of Poland. I didn't know that question has been settled to favour the Powiat of X form.  If that's the case, let's work to change all of the powiat articles to that form.  I will get started on this later today.


 * As for using bots modified from Polish Wikipedia to generate articles about Polish localities on English wiki, it's a good idea. Let me know what develops. Balcer 17:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I like the template idea.  Let's do this gradually, one or two voivodships per day each, so that if other interested users want to express an opinion, they can do so.  Balcer 18:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * For places which used to belong to Germany, "X County" can be used for disambiguation between "X Powiat" and "X Landkreis". Ausir 23:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Bot-generated articles
pl:Wikipedysta:Tsca was the one who generated articles about all communes of Poland at pl: so you probably should talk to him about that. Ausir 15:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hej.
 * wygenerowany botem artykuł wygląda tak: przykład
 * lista artykułów, które mogę wrzucić jest na stronie pl:Gminy_Polski
 * Aby projekt zrealizować, trzeba:
 * przetłumaczyć przykładowy artykuł na angielski (nie pamiętam, czy Ausir to zrobił; zamierzał chyba)
 * ustawić flagę +bot dla user:tsca.bot (zaraz założę to konto) - nie znam tutejszych procedur, zapewne wymagają zgody społeczności na wrzucenie tych artykułów (a może nie - nie wiem).
 * tsca ✉ 18:48, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Jan Henryk Wołodkowicz
Jan Henryk Wołodkowicz requires translation from French (or whatever) mikka (t) 18:32, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

RfAr
As you are aware, an arbitration request against User:AndriyK has been filed. You already co-signed it but I am leaving this message to you just to have a link that you were notified. Feel free to add your statement to the case. Thanks, --Irpen 22:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom accepted
This is the generic message left at several editors' talk pages in relation to the ArbCom case Requests_for_arbitration. Since the fourth ArbCom member has recently voted to accept the case, the case is now considered accepted by the ArbCom as per Arbitration Policy. Please make sure your statement for the ArbCom is on the page if you are willing to write one (OTOH, being named as a party does not require you to make a statement, it just gives you a right to write one) and please make sure your statement is proofread if you wrote it earlier. Please, also, make sure your statement is in the appropriate place of the ArbCom page and not interjecting with others' statements. You are welcome to read up on the Arbitration_policy and the associate pages.

--Irpen 04:00, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Blog
Masz? A zlinkujesz na stronie głównej (mój tak można znaleźć)? Bo chawlić się, że masz i nie dawać linka to nieładnie :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Faktycznie maly :) I nie ma RSS - wiec nie moge sledzic Bloglines :( Pomysl nad migracja na cos z RSS jak bedziesz sie tym powazniej bawil.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, ta strona wspolpracuje z Bloglines, ale nie byla zlinkowana z glownej strony.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Rzeczpospolita.ogg
Hi, could you please create an ogg file with a correct pronunciation of the word "Rzeczpospolita"? It's surely a tough nut to crack for most English speakers and it would be a good addition to Rzeczpospolita and perhaps to Rzeczpospolita (newspaper). And I know you've made some very useful ogg's in the past. Thanks – Kpalion (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Done ([[Image:Pl-Rzeczpospolita.ogg]]) and added to where it belongs. Hope you like it, I'm not entirely happy with it, but that's how far my voice goes after a night and day at work, with 2 packets of cigarettes behind me and little sleep ahead.. Halibutt 11:35, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it's very good. Thanks a lot! – Kpalion (talk) 23:49, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Nikifor Grigoriev
I believe this was the name of the fellow whose switching sides you cited in the Volodarka article. Fisenko has just created the article for him. I thought you might be interested. --Irpen 06:18, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * No, it was most surely not the guy (and the article is pretty clear on that). If memory serves me right, it was either the Bde of Aleksandr Salnikov or of Vadim Yakovlev. I'm not 100% certain, but these two fought on the Polish side from about that time. Halibutt 11:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Or was it Boris Peremykin..? Halibutt

Than it should be Yakovlev, I think. I will try to find more to write and article or will ask Fisenko. You may keep the dialog at one talk page. No need to switch back and forth. --Irpen 19:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

HELP! Anty-semicka legislacja w przedwojennej Polsce.
> In the 1930s the realm of official and > semiofficial discrimination expanded to encompass limits on Jewish export > firms...

Wlasnie przegrywam dyskusje z jednym Amerykaninem. Moja pozycja jest taka, ze nie bylo rzadowych ustaw antysemickich. On podal dwa przyklady:

Ustawa emigracyjna z 1938 roku (klops, bo faktycznie byla antysemicka : i wlasnie powyzszy przyklad. Czy byla oficjalna polityka nie przyjmowania Zydow do strategicznych dzialow takich jak banki i koleje, czy tylko nieoficjalny zwyczaj? czy istotnie byly nalozone jakies limity na zydowskie firmy? Drogi Halibucie, ratuj!!! <--- umm zapomnialem sie zalogowac. To bylem ja, szopen :) 150.254.32.131 11:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Jewish sentiments continued to be present in Poland, even after the country regained its independence. One notable manifestation of these attitudes includes numerus clausus rules imposed, by almost all Polish universities in the 1930's. William W. Hagen in his Before the "Final Solution": Toward a Comparative Analysis of Political Anti-Semitism in Interwar Germany and Poland article in Journal of Modern History (July, 1996): 1-31, details:

"In Poland, the semidictatorial government of Pilsudski and his successors, pressured by an increasingly vocal opposition on the radical and fascist right, implemented many anti-Semitic policies tending in a similar direction, while still others were on the official and semiofficial agenda when war descended in 1939.... In the 1930s the realm of official and semiofficial discrimination expanded to encompass limits on Jewish export firms... and, increasingly, on university admission itself. In 1921-22 some 25 percent of Polish university students were Jewish, but in 1938-39 their proportion had fallen to 8 percent." To cytat z wikipedii. Drugiego teraz nie moge znalezc, bo watek sie rozrosl potwornie, ponoc wprowadzono ustawe zadajaca, by Zydzi mieli specjalne identyfikatory? To jakies bzdury totalne chyba... Szopen 13:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted
Requests for arbitration/AndriyK has been accepted. Please place evidence on Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be placed on Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Proposed decision. Fred Bauder 02:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Wondering...
I am wondering, does my discussion with User:Ilmari Karonen or User:Jni look as much as random gibberish (like a cat has danced on your keyboard) to you as your discussion with Proconsul Pietro looks to me? =) &mdash; J I P  | Talk 13:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

GG?
1) Tlen mi cos nie dziala, uzwasz GG? Moje to 1298166. 2) sprawdasz poczte na tlenie? Wyslalem ci ciekawa rzecz (LinkedIn invitka). Wyglada przydatnie.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

An explanation
Halibutt, your rant on my page is over the top. I have NEVER suggested that articles about present-day events in Gdansk or any other ex-German, now-Polish places reference historical names unless such are relevant to the specific topic. For example, "Danzig" would be irrelevant to an article about the shipyard in Gdansk – UNLESS that article went into the entire history of the shipyard. Certainly, no article about Lodz should include whatever the spurious Nazi name was, because it was never generally known by that name.

On the other hand, "Frauenburg" is completely relevant to an article about Copernicus's work there, because that was Frombork's name when he lived there.

My main point all along has been that Poland in 1945-89 and many Poles (even today) have sought to conceal or obscure the true history of the ex-German areas of their country. My secondary point has been that some of these places were known to most of the world by their German names for a long time, which should be explained where RELEVANT. This is especially true of Danzig/Gdansk, given its unique history in the interwar period and internationally high profile politically.

I find all this important in an encyclopedia because, at the popular level in the U.S., the transformations of 1945-49 remain largely an untold story. It's important because it's part of the savagely inhumane story of WWII and its aftermath. The entire history should be known.

Now to my "obsession." The topic is fascinating, to me, because Prussia is the German Atlantis – a civilization, if you will, that has disappeared beneath the waves of history. I am reminded of the title of a German Jew's book about Königsberg: "Zeugnis zur Untergang Königsbergs," which in literal English is "Witness to the under-going of Königsberg." Prussia (and by extension German Silesia and Pomerania) has sunk out of sight, has "gone under." But, as is the case with the "Titanic," the "Bismarck" and the "Wilhelm Gustloff," not without a trace – as any visitor to certain parts of Poland, and Kaliningrad, will discover.

Beyond that, the story of the German "Catastrophe," as Friedrich Meinecke called it, should be important to every human being. It is the ultimate object lesson in the evils of nationalism, ethnocentrism, racism, militarism and despotism. And the territorial/ethnic results of Hitler's war should be an integral part of that story.

Is that reason enough for you?

Sca 20:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Zerknij
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Belarus Dość kontrowersyjne zmiany w dziale o Rzeczpospolitej Obojga Narodów. --Molobo 12:21, 30 November 2005 (UTC) Polecam też ten doskonały materiał do dyskusjo o histori Wschodniej Europy http://www.taraskuzio.net/academic/history.pdf

Dokumentuje jak Rosyjska i Sowiecka historiografia fałszowały na użytek polityki historię tej części świata. --Molobo 13:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Jesli przesuwasz komentarze, zachowaj przynajmniej numeracje - teraz nie wiadomo, czyje komantrzarze do ktorego twojego punktu sie odnosily :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Re:Italian artists
If I was not personaly involved in the case (and quite a few others), I'd block him for personal attacks. I am however afraid that it would do little to discourage him. Still, something should be done, he is definetly breaking the Etiquette. RfC may be a bit too much - I think we should try with something less drastic, as suggested by Resolving disputes. He is not Zvinbudas, after all, and as long as the matter does not deal with value-judging of Russians and their neighbours his edits are quite reasonable. You may also want to check if he has not broken 3RR in the History of Belarus article, I think he is pretty close.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:33, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hali, please remind your buddy that any POV-pushing admin may be defrocked. I think quite a few editors have had their share of his unfriendly behaviour and occasional personal attacks. --Ghirlandajo 13:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo has started editing words like "bullshit" into articles. --Molobo 14:58, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Belarus&action=edit With Napoleon's defeat, Belarus became part of Imperial Russia. --Bullshit: it has been part of Russia for decade preceding Napoleon's invasion --> It's done in G's style, in which he hides his personal remarks in articles. --Molobo 15:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Belarus&diff=prev&oldid=29807287 --Molobo 15:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Molobo/Archive01#Slavic_differences "In my experience, the Poles talk about Russians, as anti-Semites talk about Jews" This is actually a slogan repeated by G. It was made by one of propaganda executives from Russian administration. --Molobo 16:10, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

And another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:History_of_Belarus&diff=prev&oldid=29824478 "I start to think that incivility is a national feature of the Poles. " --Molobo 18:18, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo responds to changing designations of leaders of Soviet Republics from East Slavic to Soviet with claims of Polish conspiracy against "East Slavs" :  Anyway, we are not kids and we all know that it has been a favourite Polish strategem for centuries- to drive wedges between East Slavic nations, which have been speaking the same language up to the 16th century at least. Then he calls Polish editors : you prefer Polish when speaking with you cronies --Molobo 19:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Russians as Vodka Pissers
Halibutt, your calling Russians by that name is particularly appaling, as you recently were incriminated in calling every vodka drinker a Russian on your RfA page. Against the background of your failed RfA these slurs and Molobo's assaults on History of Belarus which you seem to have instigated look pretty much revanchistic. I still await your apologies, though. --Ghirlandajo 18:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, Halibutt, for shame! Everyone knows the proper name to call them is Cossacks. Though some here in the States prefer to use "Russki Sons-A-Bitches", since the Cossacks were largely Ukrainian after all and one must avoid collateral damage when using nationalistic slurs. Now smile and shake hands or you get no Vodka! ;>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 20:33, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hey, I thought the Poles INVENTED vodka, and the Russkis just copied it. Sca 00:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Halibutt, you vociferated for days when I applied the word Polack to a 17th-century person in a edit summary. Why don't we hear your vociferations now? Do you think that Russkis is a less offensive term than Polacks? As you and your friends liberally use the term Russki on talk pages, I reserve for myself the right to call them Polacks as well. --Ghirlandajo 14:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

:)
Bosz, co za strona... Gdy tylko znajdę czas, postaram sie przeczytać. Mam pracki na pl: (nie mówiąc o tzw. czasie rzeczywistym ;) ). A poza tym Girlek staje się coraz bardziej rozbrajający... :) jak tu nie lubić gościa? ;) Greets, aegis maelstrom δ 08:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Article title debate
Hi! There's now a debate over at Talk:Níðhöggr. Gene Nygaard and others are arguing, mostly on the basis of Google statistics, that we should not use diacritics in the page title. I asked him whether he was happy with the diacritics in Lech Wałęsa and his answer puzzles me. I wonder if you could add a Polish view there. Are you generally contested when you use diacritics in Polish names here? - Haukur Þorgeirsson 13:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for a swift and decisive reply :) - Haukur Þorgeirsson 14:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah, I get the opinions of the Pole and then I get their mirror image from his Russian stalker as a bonus. I admire how you find the strength to keep contributing under conditions like this. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 14:24, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm in full agreement with you here, Haukur! Halibutt, don't let the "Vodka Pissers" get you down ;>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 19:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm trying to scale back my involvement with the project to something that will be more healthy in the long run but I suspect I'll still be seeing you around :) - Haukur Þorgeirsson 17:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

New Black Book
As regards your and Piotr's new Black Book project, I still wonder whether your first experience didn't learn you anything. After your failed RfAr, you and your cronies ganged up against me and escalated revanchist bullying and persecuting me on most articles I happen to edit. Can you do something more positive than calling Russians "vodka pissers" and spawning discord with your endless black book projects? If I don't receive apologies within several hours, I'll have to request for comment of your distressing behaviour. --Vodka Pisser 16:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Halibutt, I believe that mutual RfC procedures are rather pointless, because they take time which may be used for more productive editing but seldom change one's approach to editing. I genuinely hope that "vodka pisser" and Zulu comparisons, polack-slayers, and black books are all things of the past. You should agree that we've been both short-tempered over the previous days. I apologise if you found any of my comments insulting, although it was clearly not my wish to make them appear so. My editing style may seem harsh to others, but I can;t change myself. The comments by Mikkalai, Tony Sidaway, and scores of other respected editors are frequently even more peremptory. Hopefully we can get over our past differences and work together to make wikipedia articles more objective and less infected with nationalist sentiments. Our extensive contributions entitle us to mutual respect. --Ghirlandajo 12:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Halibutt and Piotrus. I am of course in no position to tell you both what to do, but I would like to reiterate that IMO this RfC looks rather ill-conceived and I feel that it may backfire with further antagonizing the EE Wikicommunity. That said you may proceed with it as you like. Regards, --Irpen 02:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Irpen, thanks for your comments at my talk page. I know that there are risks, as there is always a risk of doing something wrong. As I said during my RfA - the only person not to commit mistakes is the one never to do anything. Having said that, I'm not sure if further antagonization, as you put it, is possible at all. After all I heard I saw no other option but to ask for help. I simply lost all hope in Ghirlandajo and certainly would not like his behaviour to continue. As the attempts at changing his offensive behaviour failed, I simply have no ideas as to what more could I do.

And this RfC is basically it: I'm asking the community what could be done about it. Got any idea? Halibutt 02:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes but I am not sure you will like to hear what I think about it. I think you should listen more to the people who disagree with your opinions and you should be more open to compromises. My own observation is that even though Ghirlandajo may be more short-tempered than yourself, it is more difficult to convince you than him to compromise on the content. I had many arguments with you both and this is my conclusion from them. I also have my recommendations for Ghirlandajo and be sure, I did tell them to him. So, please do not think that I am kind of taking sides in this. I assumed you asked me what I think about what you should do. Hence, my response to you may seem one-sided.


 * Think for yourself what positive results may your RfC bring and if you see any, proceed as you please. --Irpen 03:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Irpen, I believe you're missing the point of the RfC, which BTW is stated in the header. It's not about merithorical conflicts over a number of articles. It's about incivility, offensive language and so on. I agree that I might be as hard to convince as many others, but this is not the topic here. It's not about lack of Ghirlandajo's will to convince anyone or to provide sources. It's about his lack of respect for the others.


 * As to possible good sides of the RfC - I already said I don't know and that's precisely why I asked for the community advise. Certainly it won't be better without any steps taken. What would be the alternative? Letting G. call everyone names and pretend nothing happens? Who would benefot from such situation? IMO definitely not the ones offended by Ghirlandajo and not Wikipedia. Perhaps G. himself, though I'm not sure either. Halibutt 03:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

No, you cannot separate the content disputes from the user's behaviour in the real world. Of course in the ideal world things would be different. Take yourself as an example. You have an infinite patience to argue and re-argue and reword but you never (at least I have never seen you) actually agree to a compromise on content and this may drive people nuts. Some loose temper and they are wrong at that but it is not an entirely their fault, I am sorry.

If all you want is to bring more "civility and respect", I applaud you as this is a noble goal. But it would be easier for your and Piotrus to start fulfilling that goal with your own house.

When AndriyK joined the WP and started his trolling, it were Ukrainian editors who first cried wolfe. Similarly, when certain overzealous Polish editors go out trolling against "common enemies" they should be addressed by their own community instead of being encouraged to "add their two cents" here and there or being unblocked all the time. The VfD of the now infamous Black Book started by another troll, received exactly zero delete votes from the Polish community. I find all this sad and alarming. So, the best way to go on the civility campaign is to start near our homes, I think. --Irpen 00:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Then I'm missing your point now, I'm afraid. You actually are suggesting that we should stick to matters of the Polish community here and do not get our noses out? Would starting an open war against Molobo make Ghirlandajo less prone to incivility? Perhaps in an ideal world you mention it would be so, but I seriously doubt it. These two should be treated on a case by case basis, even though Ghirlandajo recently suggested that he's Molobos parent at my talk page (really!)


 * I really don't see the same ethnic/national division lines you refer to. For me the Polish community is just a bunch of people interested in articles on Poland-related matters. It includes Poles, Russians, Americans, Jews... Together we work on all kinds of articles, but on talk pages we rarely form a monolith. If it were the Ukrainians to start the RfC against AndriyK I believe they so not because he was Ukrainian as well, but because his behaviour was touching Ukrainian-related articles. As to the ill-fated black book - I've explained 100+ times what was it intended for and it was to deal with anti-Polish remarks, so I guess it is quite clear why the ones to be frequently offended wanted to keep it.


 * Which however does not change the fact that Ghirlandajo's behaviour is not acceptable and that - sad but true - the "Russian community" (whatever it is) did not try so far to make him change his ways. And someone really should - why not the entire wiki community through an RfC? Halibutt 07:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I am afraid you are indeed missing my point. I never said that you should stick to the Polish community or the Polish topics, but you should address the problems caused by the incivility or lack of good faith of the members of the Polish community fastly and decisively and that would make your calls to civility across the isle look more credible. What I see instead is the established Polish editors using some individuals as pet trolls against "common enemies", voting in sync at most surveys (even about keeping the black book), admins unblocking pet trolls and editors encouraging them to help in revert wars to circumvent the 3RR limit.

Yes, Ukrainians did act to AndriyK because his behavior was touching the UA-related subject but note in what way it was touching it. His input were extremely pro-Ukrainian, if one may say so, and anti-Russian too. Shifting the Ukraine-related articles towards the extreme Ukrainian nationalist and Russophobic viewpoint was perceived as a disservice to the coverage of Ukraine by the members of the Ukrainian community. Why didn't I see established Polish editors stopping Molobo from politicising such innocent topics as Ded Moroz, Tyutchev or, his most recent masterpiece, Judas of Slavdom (you are welcome to vote at its VfD).

Besides, neither Ukrainian nor Russian community votes in sync in surveys and I often oppose Ghirlandajo (see for instance the ongoing vote at talk:Ochakov as our most recent disagreement). I made my disagreement to him clear many times and you saw that.

I did not condone Ghirlandajo's remarks at talk pages or in the edit summaries. Neither I support many of his edits, while I support some of them. But, again, I want to emphasize that this disputes are ultimately about content and not just about "behavior". I did not start and ArbCom against AndriyK for his badmouthing me but for his bringing havoc to Ukrainian topics by frivolous article moves and renamings and revert warrings. I am not able to press my point with Ghirlandajo's vigor and always tried to be very patient and respectful. Now look how little movement I was able to get across at the Battle of Volodarka. My patience and good will did not help at all and I finally gave up. Is that what you want from people who disagree with you?

What do you expect to achieve with an "entire wiki-community" watching your RfC? I bet, if you just learn to find acceptable compromises at content disputes it would take you further. I am sure that the best thing you could do with this RfC is to withdraw it in spite of the amount of time you already invested in it and please believe me that I am not acting by Ghirlandajo's request or as his proxy. --Irpen 23:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

KK POV
At least he is not afraid of stating his POV. I wonder if there is any point in replying. Probably, but I can't think of anything right now. You?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * While I have never before been on a sockpuppet hunt, I have a feeling that this contributor may be more - or less - then he appears to be. What do you think?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:28, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Canberra Photos
Hi Halibutt, I would very much appreciate your input in the following argument. There seems to be a gang of users unwilling to allow anyone to interfere with there Canberra project without invitation. It was risky to take my camera on our school excursion to Canberra, but I did for the sake of the photos I could upload to Wiki. Needless to say, I'm deeply distressed over the reaction that has taken place. In particular, I would like to ask if the removal of all my photos off the Lake Burley Griffin article was a step forward in the usefullness of the page. Please either voice your opinion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canberra or write back to me. Thanks for your time (and I hope) support. --Fir0002 08:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Re:Koreastub
Wow! Thanks for that - I didn't know icons could be nominated for featured image. That's certainly one I'm pretty proud opf - I'm glad others like it too! Grutness...wha?  02:28, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Another example for RFC
When I entered information from link given by Ghirlandajo in Fyodor Tyutchev he responded with vulgar words and threatened to vandalise articles on Polish people(including writing that Kosciuszko raped Russians) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fyodor_Tyutchev&oldid=30369773 --Molobo 18:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Molobo, do you know who Pavlik Morozov was? Your silly sneaking behavior reminds me about that boy more and more.--Ghirlandajo 18:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

And another insult by Ghirlandajo... --Molobo 18:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, I believe Ghirlandajo suggested that he was your parent... Or am I wrong? Halibutt 07:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Not to mention that he just discovered that Katyn was just a staged provocation by CIA

''We should leave Halibutt worship his Polish booklets alone, or perhaps in company with Lysy and Piotrus. Links to prop webistes - www.cia.gov, www.fca.gov.uk - should be purged. Instead, there is an independant website - www.katyn.ru - proving that the whole affair was forged by CIA propaganda. I have no time for it now, but will probably return to the topic after reviewing the conduct of our Polish friends on History of Belarus. --Ghirlandajo 16:25, 7 December 2005 (UTC)'' --Molobo 16:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Some Requested Moves
Salutations, Halibutt! You might be interested in a move at Talk:Lech Wałęsa to rename the article to Lech Walesa. There is another move at Talk:Ochakov to rename the article to the Ukrainian spelling of Ochakiv. Interestingly enough, I am concerned that Ghirlandajo might have deliberately added edit history to Ochakiv (thereby requiring a Requested Move, ala AndriyK) with this edit. Olessi 17:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Request for sources
Halibutt, would you be so kind as to list the sources you used to write the Battle of Radzymin (1944) article? I am thinking about adding stuff to it, as it is directly related to Lack of outside support in the Warsaw Uprising, on which I have been working lately. 06:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)Balcer


 * Thanks for the references. The URL seems particularly useful, as I am not able to get my hands on Kirchmayer's book (though, since it was published in Poland in 1974, I am sure it could not tell the whole truth about Soviet actions).  Still, it seems at this point we don't have sources for most of the article, which is unfortunate.  For example, I am particularly curious where you obtained the numbers for the losses of the 2nd Tank Army (not that I find them unreasonable).  Also, I am curious what references you had for the statement: However, for unknown reasons, on August 2, 1944 all armies that were to assault Warsaw had their orders changed.  This is a key statement, which should be sourced, especially if we are claiming that this change of orders was issued specifically in order to avoid helping the Uprising.


 * If we don't find solid sources, the article will need a considerable rewrite. It describes a highly controversial event, hugely important to World War II history and hence could use a more detailed treatment, particularly as so little information exists on this battle in Western history books. Balcer 15:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link to a nice source. I will use the information to improve the article. Still, while useful, the source is clearly not really top notch (it appears to be a work of an amateur historian, gives few references, and is written mostly in the tone of a polemic).  Are there any better references?  Did any professional historians in Poland after 1989 take a look inside the Soviet archives (there were a few years under Yeltsin where this might have been possible), or maybe interview some still living Russian veterans, and publish a new account of the Soviet military operations around Warsaw in the summer of 1944?  I am asking because I am honestly curious, and living outside of Poland I am not able to track the most recent Polish historical publications. Balcer 19:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

ROTFL for a ROTFL :)
I know it can be considered even as impolite but it's an exact edit I have found of this user's talk page (and we are GFDL anyway...:>) and that's one of the funniest things I have read recently. Probably you've read it but...

Polish plans to invade Soviet Union in 1939

''These are not allegations but hard facts. Poland, who had at her disposal one of the largest armies in the world, was defeated by Hitler so rapidly and ignominously partly due to the fact that the whole army was stationed on eastern borders, preparing to invade the Soviet Union, like they had done back in 1919. --Ghirlandajo 21:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)''

I bet the Polish military leaders were in fact controlled by a strong inner circle of Jews allied with Vatican and A. Hitler. ;>

I even don't ask for sources, just start being proud of my mighty nation. :]

Greets, aegis maelstrom δ 07:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Politechnika Lwowska.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Politechnika Lwowska.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use or fairuse. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks so much. --Pak21 10:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for tagging that one; the same problem applies to Image:Polska mazowieckie.png as well. Cheers --Pak21 11:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Me again... Pomnik Obroncow Wybrzeza z.jpg and Pomnik Obroncow Wybrzeza.jpg don't have copyright information either. Thanks for your time --Pak21 15:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

pułk
Jak przetłumaczyć Pierwszy Pułk Strzelców Konnych Jazdy Augustowskiej? Jest jakiś artykuł o tym pułku?--SylwiaS 11:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * "Augustów Cavalry First Mounted Rifle Regiment"? logologist 11:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I wasn't specific. I'm not writing about the Regiment only about Patek who used to serve there. I get completely lost when it comes to the military terminology (the best reason for which I shouldn't write about the regiment:)). So where I link it to? Polish Army?--SylwiaS 11:54, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I used the last one.--SylwiaS 12:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Obrazki PD wstawione przeze mnie
Witaj,

Te stareńkie ilustracje są z ksiązki http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~koby/political/toc.html wydana 1917 w New York więc PD
 * http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~koby/political/chapter_19/1942lembergpolytech.html
 * http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~koby/political/chapter_19/1933galiciandiet.html

Pozdrowienia, Kpjas 11:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Patek
Thanks. I still have something more difficult for Logologist :)--SylwiaS 13:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Translation requested
I was wondering would it be too much to ask if you couuld, or could find someone willing to translate some of the lead paragraph of the Marshall, Texas article into Polish and create a stub on Marshall there. There are already stubs in several languages and an image of the its premier building is available thorugh commons. -14:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Translation requested
I was wondering would it be too much to ask if you couuld, or could find someone willing to translate some of the lead paragraph of the Marshall, Texas article into Polish and create a stub on Marshall there. There are already stubs in several languages and an image of the its premier building is available thorugh commons. -JCarriker 14:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Could you give me direction on what the format of the titel should be: Marshall, Texas - Marshall (Texas), ect. -JCarriker 14:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I followed the pattern of Portland (Maine) article.You can see the stub here Let me know if there are any other languages that you can offer that don't already have versions. Thanks. -JCarriker 07:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

POLISH CENSUS
Hi Hallibut, just curious- did you mark your ethnicity as Jewish or Polish on the census?


 * Of course Polish. Unfortunately the Census Bureau did not allow for my full genealogy to be described in the census. It would have to mention Polish, Jewish, Lithuanian/Ruthenian, Tatar and perhaps even English blood... Halibutt 12:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Voivodship grammar
Hello Halibutt! I would like to help you and Balcer with renaming County to Powiat at WikiProject Geography of Poland. However, what is the proper phrasing when using voivodships? "Łódź is in Łódź Voivodship" sounds better than "Łódź is in the Łódź Voivodship", but "Warsaw is in the Masovian Voivodship" sounds better than "Warsaw is in Masovian Voivodship". Maybe "the" should only be included if a descriptive adjective is used? Olessi 23:58, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * How about "Mazowsze Voivodship"? (Better yet:  "Mazowsze Province"!)  logologist 03:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/AndriyK
Just wondering why there is an empty section 'Statement by User:Halibutt' there. Either you write sth and there is a statement or you don't and section should be deleted, no?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 05:50, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Contract Sejm
The article reads pretty smoothly. I'm missing some of the political allusions, but get the general drift. The title is appropriately "literal" and in any case, I take it, refers to a one-time phenomenon.

Paragraph 3, line 1: Should "turn" be "round," or something like that?

Paragraph 4, line 1, could use clarification: I presume a comma is needed between "first" and "25%." Is "run" another synonym for "round"?

And, of course, the article will require a suitably impressive bibliography.

Nice article! logologist 03:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

JPEG to PNG conversions
Hi, is it okay to make JPEG&rArr;PNG conversions and palette reductions of Polish maps tagged with (such as Image:Mapa Torun.jpg), if I retain the license tag? I have a bunch of those waiting to be uploaded. –Mysid 11:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Datner
Tak mam książkę i jak coś konkretnego cię interesuje to daj znać, ale skaner na razie nie jest dostępny. Przy okazji pamiętasz może gdzie toczyła się dyskusja o roli żydowskiej mniejszości na terenach zajętych przez ZSRR ? Znalazłem artykułu (bardzo POV jeśli chodzi o stosunek do Polaków) organizacji żydowskiej o tych wydarzeniach, który daje ciekawą perspektywę, i który twierdzi jednocześnie że rzeczywiście była silna współpraca: http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/rogatin/roh032e.html (sekcja Under Soviet Rule).

Re:Gajl
Jestem pewien, ze zgodzi sie wyslac ci te herby - ma wszystkie, ale nie online. Wyslalem ci jego adres mejlem. Pozdr, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 14:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

CoA
Yes, cousin :) BTW I left you an answer in the Operation Wisła talk about Warsaw pact and NATO.--SylwiaS | talk 20:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Nieczuja
Nadpisałem herb. Niestety Bozia poskąpiła talentu, dlatego to wszystko co udało mi się zrobić. Jak trafie gdzieś na niego to dam znać. wames 00:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Please take part in the improval of this article
Hello. I would like to inform you that there is an ongoing discussion at article Territorial claims of the Baltic States (formerly was known as "Lost territories of the Baltic States", but was recently renamed; some users seems to disagree with that renaming). Recent edits as well were accused of POV, and, in fact, article was disputed for a long time already. I noticed your previous contributions to the talk page article when it was disputed, therefore I think your opinion is much needed now as well. It would be nice if you would add that article to your watchlist and continue helping to improve it until a decition will be reached about its future (there is currently a poll about it in the article's talk page). I hope together we all will be able to make that article neutral. Kaiser 747 10:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

new evidences for the RfC
Hello Halibutt! Please look at the history edits of User:Ghirlandajo for today-yesterday, he made again some accusations against some editors including myself. You may use them for your RfC against him. Bonaparte  talk  12:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

commons:Image:LithuaniaHistory.png
Hi, user:knutux made this map. And I think it's worth to be featured. But before I go ahead with nomination, I wanted to hear some opionions about factuality and NPOV and etc. There is enough battles going on to add another one. Renata3 22:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

14 generałów w Katyniu
What's the source for this additon? The only thing I can find online for '14 generals' or the names is Polish Wikipedia, unsourced :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:16, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * So it's 12 or 14? Could you pinpoint this to any specific reference so we can properly source this? I think that as soon as we are done with references this is a FAC material :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Saul Wahl
Hi Halibutt, could you take a look at Saul Wahl? I'm not sure what to make of it. It provides references (to which I don't have access), but it reads like a fairy tale. Appleseed (Talk) 19:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Markowitz
Hello! I want to know the slavonic name or Markowitz, birth place of Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff.

Poznan district? Rybnik district, Silesia? 

Markowitz is probably Markowice. but Markowice is many village's names. can you make polish or english, german article of Markowice?

and where is "Trachtenberg" (I know this is a eastern placename-originated pedigree now)?

Note
Hello. Firstly, thank you for contributing at the article Territorial claims of the Baltic States and its discussion. I would like to notify you that I will leave to Frankfurt soon where I will spend quite much time; thus I won't be on Wikipedia for long. Therefore, I would like to ask you and others to continue to contribute there and watch that a solution would be reached, factually accurate name would be chosen, and the article wouldn't just stay disputed forever as it used to be previously. Check the article from time to time (or, even better, put it on watch list) and if you will see that no one discusses anything anymore nor edits the article for a long time (e.g. a week), try to act by implementing voting decition and such. Good luck! (you shouldn't reply to this by the way as most likely I won't be able to check Wikipedia anytime soon as I will leave quickly). Merry Christmas to you :) .Kaiser 747 09:51, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of Virtuti Militari
I had put this category in WP:CFD. I suggest to convert it into list and move the list into Virtuti Militari article. This should help to reduce categories clutter a little bit in many articles. Since you created the category you may express your opinion. Pavel Vozenilek 23:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

How to record voice samples?
Hi, it's me again :) This time I bought a microphone to record voice samples for Wikipedia and it does not work! Since you have recorded a number of ogg files maybe you could help me? What software do you use? Do you need to install the microphone? In general, do you need to do something special? Renata3 03:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It works! Hey hey! :) Thank you so much! All the trouble was that one check that was in a wrong place (thanks for the hint to look for it). So anyway, I thought that you could share some comments about my first test: commons:Image:Vytautas Didysis.ogg. Renata3 03:38, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh, and happy x-mas! :) Renata3 03:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


 * And you said you would vote: commons:Template:Featured pictures candidates/Image:LithuaniaHistory.png :) (happy new year and nice work on Narbut) Renata3 03:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Your message from November
Hi Halibutt! Sorry for not reacting to your message on my talk page. You should know that I have not been logged in to the English Wikipedia for more than a year now. In case you want to address me again, please do so on my German talk page because that is the only one I regularly watch. All the best and happy new year! -- Baldhur

Image:Rumia.ogg
Hey, could you please add copyright info to Image:Rumia.ogg? The link to it got commented out of the Rumia page due to lack of the info, and I'd rather it not get deleted altogether. --Qviri 00:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Place names
Hello! Can you add the placenames in List of Hasidic dynasties? Like Kalov (Hasidic dynasty) (from Kalov (Nagykálló), Hungary)

Where is Ruzhin, Sadagóra/Sadigura?
 * --Sheynhertz<font lang=yi size=2px color=mediumaquamarine>געשׁ״ך 02:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Request for comment
It may not be up your alley, but very few people have came through RfC I posted about History of the World, and there is a slow but pointless revert war there (see Talk:History_of_the_World), so I am now down to asking fellow Wikipedians to take a look if you have time and will.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 17:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Halibutt
Hello Halibutt, can you look at transnistria please? Russians push POV fork there. Bonaparte  talk  10:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

herby - T.Gajl..
W haśle o Tadeusz Gajl podałeś, że zgadza się on na publikację (herby Rzeczypospolitej...) herbów z jego publikacji w necie (jeśli dobrze zrozumiałem mym angielskim). czy można te herby także przenieść do polskiej Wiki? pozdrawiam pl:wikipedysta:Arkad

Jak sądzisz...
Uczciwie i poważnie: czy mój dziadek jest notable? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 02:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Rysunek
Umiałbyś zrobić taki rysunek? --SylwiaS | talk 20:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A ja naiwnie myślałam, że to bardzo proste. :)Ten rysunek przedstawia pokrycie nieba przez Polski system All Sky Automated Survey. Przeczytałam dzisiaj, że właśnie odkryliśmy kometę. Więc napisałam ten artykuł (z którego prawie nic nie rozumiem) i brakuje mi zdjęć. Tu są zdjęcia[], to pierwsze zrobił ktoś z Nowej Zelandii, ale te czarnobiałe powinny być nasze, czyli Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego. Można używać ich zdjęć? Tam jest też prostszy rysunek, ale obrotowy.--SylwiaS | talk 22:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

you are making very well work
I,stay more agreed with you, has hecho un maravilloso trabajo en organizar y arreglar el Battle order de la Marina Polaca.

yo,en vez de sentir que me lo hayan cambiado,al contrario,i am stay more happines with your exelent work.

i belived why if these work of Air force,navy and my "collection" of Polish weapons was my unique and last polish works,i stay more prided in aided at yours in ampled respect at this.

now,probably only aided to added any additional(valga la redundancia) any other information related with topic.

existen dos cosas que me han llamado la atencion: una es acerca del PZL Los y la version polaca del Seversky P-35.

ademas tambien es curioso ver que la "leyenda,el mito" de un ejercito equipado "solo" con caballos y sables de caballeria luchase contra modernos tanques (que yo sepa una cosa asi solo pudo haber ocurrido en verdad en el caso de la invasion a Etiopia,e incluso los propios etiopes poseian algunos aviones y tanques tambien) y cuando yo me di cuenta que los polacos no "solo tenian caballos" sino sus propios diseños de tanques y blindados,aviones (digamos aceptables y pensaron seriamente en modernizar su aviacion) o que tenian unas fuerzas navales pequeñas pero bastante ,modernas,i am stay more surprised!

Well,i am in my limited posiblities,treated to aiding at you in these interesting work.

gracias por sus amables palabras y atencion!

more thanks writer23 ==

Thanks for your amably comments!

other thinh why poses curiosity,for way solved certain mistery (i am stay interest in confirm this) if reffer to "Laskowski" coastal battery (3 152mm Heavy cannons) (suppose if one polish example similar to russian coastal gun M 04 of 15.2 cm(152mm)?)

such armaments and your combat action during German naval attacks was mentioned by spanish author.

mi pregunta es la siguiente: usted puede verificar la existencia de esta bateria de artilleria costera?

si esto es verdad,estamos ante un hecho olvidado o acaso poco conocido,reiterally this sucess appareing in spanish relate.

!La marina polaca conto con una Bateria Costera pesada entre sus fuerzas de marina que caso graves daños a buques de la marina alemana e incluso retraso brevemente las operaciones de los barcos germanos en apoyo al desembarco aleman en las costas polacas!

asi tambien seria interesante saber que unidad era quienes la operaban y donde estaban encuadrados dentro de las fuerzas navales en tierra.

if other suprised fact of polish forces in ww2!

Gracias por su amable respuesta.

tengo que decirlo de nuevo,usted ha realizado un exelente trabajo,ha pulido y mejorado aun mas de lo que ha estado realizando las paginas de la armada y la flota de Pinsk.

un motivo personal por la que decidi empezar a escribir algo sobre la fuerza aerea y la armada,fue para demostrar,que aunque perdieron,por la superioridad numerica y tecnica de los enemigos,las fuerzas armadas polacas tambien contaron con sus unidades navales y aereas que le dieron dura batalla a sus contrapartidas enemigas e incluso( en el caso de la fuerza aerea) lucharon algun tiempo despues de la caida de la capital apoyando la resistencia local a los hostiles.

gracias por sus respuestas ante mi curiosidad aeronautica,no se si los aviones que considere algo equivalentes al P.50 sean realmente equivalentes,pero los "he nominado" como tales por algunas de sus caracteristicas tecnicas u operativas que tal vez si puedan ser comparables con este caza.

tambien gracias por confirmarme lo del Mito del A7V,una leyenda que demuestra segun sus partidarios que ese era el tipo de Tecnologia blindada que poseian los polacos,menos mal que confirmo que solo es un mito... respecto a los FT-17 se que incluso las fuerzas de francia vichi los uso contra los aliados en Argelia y los alemanes en francia durante la liberacion aliada e incluso en las ultimas luchas en la propia alemania,tambien lo uso Japon en el Pacifico y los ejercitos Chinos en la guerra chino-japonesa,por lo que vemos que el tanque FT-17 no era tan anticuado y malo como dicen despues de todo!

gracias por sus comentarios,despues seguiremos conversando

Writer23

Sobre los Cohetes Congreve
Respecto al asunto de los cohetes en el sitio de Danzig(me estoy refiriendo al Nombre historico,no a la connotacion germana de la segunda guerra) sucede que durante las guerras napoleonicas,los cohetes Congreve eran disparados desde rampas moviles en carretas de grupos de Coheteril in !Caballerias!(ve lo util que eran y aun siguen siendo los Caballos).

El relato proviene del libro "The Rocket´s Red Glare"( en español "El Resplandor de los Cohetes en la Historia del Hombre,desde el fuego griego hasta los vuelos interplanetarios" por Wernher von Braun y Frederick I. Ordway III,publicado por Anchor Press/Doubleday,Garden City,New York ,USA 1976,(publicado en español por Ed.Distribuidora Argentina S.R.L.,Buenos Aires,Arg. 1979),Capitulos 5 "Tipos de Cohetes" y 6 "La Era de Congreve"(p.79-80)

Durante la Guerras Napoleonicas como en las batallas contra Haidar Ali y su hijo Tippo Sahib en Misore,los cohetes se lanzaron a menudo no solo por el aire sino tambien a lo largo del suelo.las tacticas que exigian la defensa de un paso o la proteccion de una retirada abarcaban hasta 100 o 500 lanzaderas o rampas moviles de cohete disparadas en secuencia.un cohete congreve de 15 Kg que pasaba rasando un terreno mas o menos llano,podia lograr un alcance de 350 o 450 M,estas tacticas lograban un gran exito contra la caballeria.otros cohetes se lanzaban en arco para complementar el fuego contra la caballeria y destruir la artilleria de apoyo en las lineas enemigas. los cohetes congreve eran de categoria ligera,mediana y pesada,siendo la primera de 3 a 9 Kg empleada en tierra como artilleria de apoyo,la segunda iba de los 12 a 40 Kg y la ultima categoria eran los cohetes de peso superior a 40 Kg.

estos cohetes se designaban por el peso de la bala de plomo que encajaba en el molde de la polvora.los cohetes de 40Kg se designaban por su calibre;un cohete de mas de 20 cm de explosion(incendiario),podia pesar unos 150Kg de los cuales 25 representaban la cabeza.el alcance de estas armas variaba al dispararlas al aire en arco,entre los 2,000 o 2,500 metros.el otro extremo era el portatil cohete de 3 Kg,el menor de la famila y mas liviano que figuraba en los inventarios regulares y portaba un Kilo y medio de clavos,perdigones o balas de plomo.

la fuerza de estos cohetes era considerable.uno de 15 Kg por ejemplo podia penetrar a travez de las paredes de edificios o hasta 2,70 metros de tierra a una distancia de 3,000 Metros.el cohete de contenedor de metralla de hierro era especialmente popular entre la artilleria coheteril,por lo facil de transportar y disparar y tenia casi el doble de alcance de la artilleria de la epoca.

estas rampas moviles eran trasladadas por carros diseñados especialmente y caballos entrenados asi como operados por personal adiestrado al efecto que en ciertos casos trasladaba a pie el equipo. un equipo de 100 hombres manipulaban 300 salvas y 10 rampas de lanzamiento o portar 72 salvas de cohete y 4 rampas de las cuales un equipo veterano podia realizar unos 16 lanzamientos por minuto.otro equipo de 9 rampas disparaba 22 cohetes,transportando 30Kg en carros a caballo que eran las mismas lanzaderas o portar lanzaderas en planchas de hierro doble disparando 2 cohetes en posicion horizontal a nivel del suelo o en arco hasta una elevacion de 45 grados.

estos cohetes fueron usados tambien por la real armada britanica por lo facil de manejar,siendo los mas comunes los de 4,6 y 9 Kg disparados desde canoas de tingladillo de cuatro remos y chalupas de 18 remos escoltados por bergantines cañoneros o en rampas en los buques pesados;se lanzaban entre 50 o 500 en un solo disparo multiple a distancias de 1,000 o 1,200 Metros.estos disparos eran frecuentemente complementados por morteros navales de 20 cm.

y es el siguiente "Mientras Bogue y su brigada de Cohetes participaban en la Batalla de Leipzig,un destacamento de 33 unidades al mando del teniente de la real Coheteria montada Robert Gilbert ,llego a Danzig,el 6 de enero de 1813,con el objetivo de apoyar a las tropas rusas y prusianas que servian a ordenes del Duque de Wurttenberg,quienes asediaban a los restos del ejercito napoleonico que se habia retirado a la ciudad despues delas derrotas sufridas en Rusia y Rutenia blanca. durante la batalla que se extendio hasta noviembre de ese mismo año,uno de los defensores franceses se lamento de que "los atacantes dispararon una gran cantidad de cohetes desde la mayoria de los puestos avanzados,las bombas cayeron en la ciudad,asi como entre 1,500 y 1,600 cohetes.quedaron incendiados 22 almacenes y cuarteles asi como una cantidad de casas particulares..."a pesar del intenso bombardeo los franceses se mantuvieron hasta el 29 de noviembre antes de rendirse.

El teniente Gilbert y sus coheteros quedaron en sus alojamientos de Kalupki,hasta septiembre 1814,totalmente olvidados por los ingleses.cuando regresaron a inglaterra el 10 de septiembre de ese año fueron licenciados.pero los rusos se mostraron agradecidos por sus servicios e hicieron a Gilbert "Caballero de la Orden de Imperial Rusa de San Vladimiro"

Sobre tanques capturados al Eje
Sobre tanque lei en el sitio de tanques que los polacos capturaron algunos Panzar III y IV, asi como algunos vehiculos blindados del tipo Hanomag armados de cañones y un Carro de orugas RSO asi como en africa capturaron un carro italiano Autoblinda.

tambien he leido que en Minsk y Sandomierz se usaron por primera vez los Tanque Tiger II en operaciones defensivas...

Planes Rusos de invadir Europa occidental
por otra parte,me referi a una idea que tengo de componer un articulo de los planes germanos en el este,aparte de sus consideraciones historicas negativas(es cierto,yo mismo los he analizado desde su propia optica,en su mismo terreno y conozco de primera mano las cosas perversas que algunos niegan,pero que son un hecho historico innegable) a veces he considerado que en el caso de las operaciones contra la URSS,tuvieron la razon e incluso documentos historicos provenientes de los mismos archivos Sovieticos muestran que en cuestion del Periodo de 1941-42 o incluso dicen que contados en pocos meses o dias de diferencia, el mismo Stalin tuvo sus propios planes para invadir Europa Occidental,El Oriente Medio musulman y el norte de Africa.y en el caso de Europa occidental incluso parece que hasta tenia sus "partidarios" y futuros lideres locales que los recibirian como "libertadores" y serian los futuros titeres sovieticos.

otra variante de este plan era la propuesta de Stalin de que los norteamericanos y britanicos liberasen Grecia,Yugoslavia y los balcanes sur asi como la zona costera del mediterraneo y ellos,el ejercito Rojo avanzase hasta Francia(algo que iban a hacer de hecho si no ocurre el desembarco en Normandia)

e incluso algunos pasos de este plan se pusieron en practica de hecho con la consabida "liberacion" de Rumania,Bulgaria Hungria,los estados Balticos y su pais hasta la entrada en territorio aleman y Bohemia y Moravia,algo que los norteamericanos y Churchill captaron despues.

Otro hecho historico relacionado son los malevolos planes sovieticos en españa antes de la Guerra civil.

resulta que cuando gano el Sr. Manuel Hazaña(en forma similar a Allende en Chile) en españa,nada mas se instalo el gobierno para que implementaran el plan "Octubre Rojo" en el pais,y comenzaron las confiscaciones,deportaciones,expropiaciones,arrestos de opositores,etc con el apoyo de la Union Sovietica.

La URSS,de hecho ya contaba con la Republica Popular de Mongolia o al menos ya habia metido sus manos perversas hace tiempo ahi antes de formalizar su titere en esa area,deseaba muchisimo que España fuera su futuro titere en Europa.Francisco franco y sus asociados se dieron cuenta de ello y ahi comenzo la Guerra civil española.

y los Rusos contaron con un plan de conquista ,despues de la guerra, en 1953,donde los ejercitos Rusos,iban a retomar la linea dictada por Lenin de convertir por la fuerza a China como provincia sur de la URSS,al mismo tiempo que otras unidades invadian o entraban con sus partidarios locales en el Oriente medio.otras fuerzas rusas desde la europa oriental y alemania ocupada irrumpian en Europa occidental asi como otros ejercitos comenzaban la invasion al norte de Canada e intentaban recuperar alaska por la fuerza;poco despues de afianzar sus conquistas europeas y africanas entonces las fuerzas Rusas invadirian ambas costas del pais con el apoyo de infiltrados o secuaces en el pais.

este plan se coordinaba con las guerrillas locales de africa,asia y Latinoamerica(casualidad no habria estado fidel castro ahi tambien?) o enviaban agentes (encubiertos como "enviados de buena voluntad") a los paises o areas donde no habia guerrilla local. en fin Stalin deseaba conquistar el Mundo entero de una sola vez...e incluso se penso a fin de acelerar la conquista y romper la resistencia el uso de las Armas atomicas,quimicas y biologicas...

se dice que este plan era tan ambicioso y complejo(si era asi,como se plantea, la URSS pelearia contra el mundo entero);se dice que sus propios partidarios de su circulo,La "Nomenklatura",al ver estas ideas fantasiosas y peligrosas,planearon la muerte del lider,decidieron envenenarlo.

Planes Alemanes de invadir Rusia
por otro lado los planes alemanes(me gustaria en otra conversacion comentar en detalle acerca de esas estrategias) no eran menos siniestros(aunque de hecho tanto ellos como los rusos se daban la mano en perversidad por igual):El Fuhrer queria convertir a la Rusia Europea en 4 Provincias(Kaukasus(caucasia),Moskau(Moscu y sus alrededores),Ostland(los estados balticos) y el estado federal de Ukraine(Ucrania).tambien se proyectaba la expansion de la frontera de las provincias de Kaukasus y Moskau hasta los Urales o incluso hasta el Meridiano 70 (al este de Bombay en India)lo que implicaba la cracion de otras nuevas "provincias":Grossassien( incluia a WestSibirien(siberia occidental) y West Kazakhstan(Kazakstan occidental) fusionados con Kaukasus y Moskau o separados. este terrible plan incluia la toma del Norte de Africa y el Oriente Medio hasta Persia (Iran) y Afganistan hasta la linea del meridiano 70,que delimitaba los territorios Japoneses en Asia continental desde Novosibirsk,Kazakstan Oriental y los estados centroasiatios y La India como futuras fronteras terrestres.

A veces los planes Germanos incluyen a practicamente toda el !Africa Negra! junto a los territorios antes mencionados como su esfera de explotacion economica y racial(parece que querian aplicar la solucion final con negros y asiaticos,despues de limpiar europa de judios en 1948 entre sus planes futuros).tambien se ha analizado que esta guerra era una practica a gran escala a una presunta planificacion de invasion a los !Estados Unidos!(incluso en Rusia probaron algunas Armas y estrategias diseñadas contra Inglaterra y los EU)

los Alemanes y las SS en particular querian que esa division political temporal se fusionase con alemania,para crear ciudades y distritor SS en esos territorios,apoyar a sus partidarios balticos,ucranianos,bielorusos y caucasicos(que despues serian eventualmente eliminados) y extender el Reich hasta los Urales o Siberia occidental.

Sobre la "Amistad y aprecio" Germano-Japones
en Particular al ver la manera tan perversa y salvaje que se dio esa guerra,yo personalmente analizo la cuestion que si los alemanes supuestamente aliados de los Japoneses,a sus espaldas tenian sus planes de exterminio racial de asiaticos y !que coincidencia,oh que sorpresa! los japoneses tambien tenian sus propios planes de exterminio de la Raza Blanca inferior(algo que experimentaron en Manchukuo con los rusos blancos,los europeos prisioneros y cuando arrestaron e internaron a los alemanes e italianos en mayo de 1945,exepto algunos de estos ultimos que siguieron la lucha junto a estos).puedo muy bien suponer que se pódria haber dado un conflicto ideologico y racial entre los Alemanes y Japoneses en los territorios Rusos y del Oriente Medio de haberse puesto en practica los planes de ocupacion hasta el meridiano 70.los Japoneses deseaban levantar el espiritu Pan Mongol en el norte asiatico para repetir la Hazaña del Gengys Khan en tiempos contemporaneos,instalar sus propio titere Ruso projapones en Moscu y eliminar la perversa raza inferior blanca en oposicion a la raza superior asiatica en su lugar de origen en europa occidental y ser ellos los dueños del mundo,expandiendo su ideologia del "Hakko Ichiu" bajo los dictados antiguos de su ancestro el emperador Jinmu.

solo recuerde la amistad Ruso-Alemana en los tiempos del tratado Molotov-Ribbentrop(a veces llamado el Pacto del Diablo o los 666 dias(el tiempo que duro el acuerdo)) y lo tremendamente cordiales que fueron rusos y alemanes en la lamentable campaña contra su pais, y en su ocupacion ilegal estoy de acuerdo que los rusos o en su defecto los estados herederos,deban devolver los territorios Polacos ocupados ilegalmente(incluye la zona petrolifera de Drohobycz(Drogobich),area tan rica que Polonia en esa epoca era un lider petrolifero internacional entre los paises exportadores de crudo petrolifero),y vea lo que paso despues en Junio de 1941...

asi bien podria imaginar lo que hubiera pasado si los Japóneses y Alemanes se encuentran amistosamente(tan amistosos que aparte se desconfiaban y planeaban en contra de parte y parte,algo que la comunidad alemana en Japon entendio desde diciembre de 1941 cuando japon ataco Pearl Harbor y en Alemania y el resto de la europa partidaria siempre se pregunto porque alemania pacto con la raza inferior asiatica o el peligro amarillo),solo imaginese lo que hubiera pasado...creo que lo de los rusos hubiera sido poco comparado con el odio mortal que se sentian ambos amigos...

Tambien puedo imaginarme lo que hubiera pasado si los alemanes ganan en la Union Sovietica...puedo imaginarme esos enormes planeadores de asalto en el aire y lanchas de desembarco en las costas de Los EU,despues de invadir inglaterra,con apoyo de portaaviones y acorazados,asi como los gigantescos bombarderos superpesados atacando la capital asi como los cohetes de ultra largo alcance cayendo en el interior de los EU...a veces dicen que las cosas pasan por algo,por eso pienso que si alemania fue derrotada,fue por algo...

despues seguiremos comentando,hasta pronto...

Please
Check your mail. --Molobo 01:04, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Russian troll
After vandalizing Belarusian language and History of Belarus article (and totally dirupting editing of these two articles), the Russian troll Kuban Kazak continued his activities on the article about my native town Vorsha. I would like to ask Wikipedia admins and Wikipedia community members as what I should do in such a situation. Thank you very much. --rydel 14:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history: Coordinator elections
--Loopy e 04:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

talk:(V)orsha
Could you please fix the page. It was messed up in your last edit, probably due to the software glitch caused by edit conflict. --Irpen 19:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I meant the edit not to article but to talk . --Irpen 20:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Request about "Spanish Civil War"
In Polish version of Wiki you started a project on Spanish Civil War. I made some comments to it. I am particularly interested in one of the characters: Melchor Rodríguez García - he is on a Spanish version of Wiki. Could you make a Polish or English version of it. I can understand some single words in Spanish, but I am not sure I have understood everything. Regards Jasra 23:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Melchor Rodriguez Garcia
Dziękuję za artykuł. Spróbuję na jego podstawie zrobić coś na polskiej Wiki. Mam też pewien link, który też postaram się wykorzystać. 

W Twoim artykule trochę tyko nie podoba mi się fragment: ''The militias and other armed groups were driven by the desire to eliminate the enemies of the republic at all cost and the execution of political opponents was quite common. Also, the society of besieged Madrid often reacted with violence towards the imprisoned nationalists after particularily bloody bombardements or after the press reporting of the nationalist treatment of captured republicans. The fact that the Spanish government was weak during the opening stages of the civil war did not help either.'' This a bit looks like a justification. I would just stick to the statement "the execution(s) of political opponents was(were) quite common" ;) Jasra 21:33, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Tak na marginesie, to jeszcze nie "wgryzłam się" w ostre polemiki na polskiej Wiki, więc historie sporów znam dość powierzchownie. No cóż. Wszędzie są problemy ;)

Selective coverage of history
I'm surprised that I can't find the article on German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact. After so much vociferation about a similar (and later) German-Soviet pact from you and your compatriots, I'm quite surprised at suppression of this signal part of Polish history. --Ghirla | talk 15:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The name Władysław is not acceptable on English wikipedia. See Naming conventions. His most common English name by far is Jagiello/Jogaila, his original and ethnic name. - Calgacus 16:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Władysław II
The name Władysław is not acceptable on English wikipedia, at least not for so famous a ruler. See Naming conventions. His most common English name by far is Jagiello/Jogaila, his original and ethnic name. He wasn't even Polish, so it is doubly unacceptable to render his name thusly. Thanks. - Calgacus 16:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

List of invasions
Another unfortunate squabble with User:Ghirlandajo. Please take a look, if you have the energy.Balcer 16:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

There is also an invasion of Czechoslovakia by Poland in 1939-I don't recall any military operations there. --Molobo 17:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Email
Hi Halibutt-I sent you an interesting article from Tygodnik Powszechny, and quite amusing quote(care to make an article about this ? That would be a storm :D ).So check your email. --Molobo 17:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

AndriyK RfAr closed
The AndriyK RfAr has been closed. Until by consensus he has agreed to a suitable and mutually agreed naming convention using the guideline Naming conflict, AndriyK is prohibited from moving pages, or changing the content of articles which relate to Ukrainian names, especially those of historical interest. AndriyK is banned for one month from Wikipedia for creating irreversible page moves. Andrew Alexander, AndriyK, and MaryMaidan are warned to avoid copyright violations and to cooperate with the efforts of others to remove copyright violations. Ghirlandajo is warned to avoid incivility or personal attacks.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Kelly Martin (talk) 04:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)