User:Halibutt/Archive6

Edit war on Vilnius
Mein herzliches Beileid! I was quite shocked and amused at the same time to see what troubles you have with your English article on Vilnius. I thought the GErman discussion was already useless enough - but, thanks God, not so many people speak German than English... We had the discussions only among Germans about the correct naming (so, comparatively few comments like 'nazi' or 'fascist') and it's still 'Wilna' though you should know that 'Vilnius' is adequately used today and I hope for the day to come we could just forget about the whole history stuff and use the siuolaikiniai name. but it was interesting to read that the fight between Polish and Lithuanians about the "true" history of Vilnius is so fierce and unrespectful - tells a lot about people's understanding... anyways, good luck for you and all those who try to be fair! --Mastaart 14:43, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Stay calm, Halibutt. Ja tam sie ine przejmuje. Zreszta i tak wroce do wikipedii dopiero za dwa-trzy miesiace, nie wczesniej. Za uzo innej roboty na glowie :-) Szopen 09:21, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kircholm
Jak napisalem na talku Domeyko, idealnym rozwiazaniem bylo zastapienie wszystkich Polish i Lithuanian przez Polish-Lithuanian. Nie wiem prawde mowiac kto walczyl pod Kircholmem, ale samo Lithuanian jest raczej rownie (nie)poprawny jak samo Polish. Musze wiecej poczytac na ten temat, ale wydaje mi sie ze dla mieszkanca RONu Polska i Litwa znaczyly tyle co dla nas dzis Wielkopolska i Malopolska - on byl mieszkancem Rzeczpospolitej. Rzeczpospolitans...hmmm :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:57, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

wst&#261;&#380;eczka
Witaj. Narysowa&#322;am. W CorelDraw12. Pozdrówka Niki K 17:53, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ju&#380; szukam. Mo&#380;e by&#263; w formacie cdr? Niki K

Wys&#322;a&#322;am Niki K 20:07, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Giant Mountains
Wybacz, &#380;e Ci zawracam g&#322;ow&#281;, ale czy nieobca jest Ci nazwa Giant Mountains ? Lysy 18:48, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Baiting
Never a good idea, however angry you are. Refdoc 22:51, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is too late now anyway. The guy is gone ballistic again... Refdoc 09:28, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Polish money images
Are they copyrighted by Polish law? I have several Polish coins which I want to scan and upload on Commons (1929, 1980s). Is it OK to claim PD for that kind of images? Thank you for help. --EugeneZelenko 13:53, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * as far as I recall there already is a representative section of Polish coins and banknotes on the Commons.

--Alexvonf 08:33, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vilnius
Thanks for your patience and new contributions. Refdoc 17:39, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What do you think ? Unprotyect again and incorporate accepted changes ? I am a bit hesitant as I try to make him commit to better behaviour but I get kind of restless... Refdoc 19:37, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rydz
Thank you for your information. I must also find the grave of my uncle Colonel Julian Ulrych (minister of Communication in Slawoj's government), but I think that he was buried among the Legionists after having been transferred from London.

--Alexvonf 08:38, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wapno Map
I was wondering if you could make a Wapno location map, similar to the one you did for Poznan? You would just need to move the red dot ever so slightly. I would do it myself, but I don't know how.

Also, I wonder if you could check my English article and compare it to the Polish version. I think the Polish-language article (linked to in English version) lists the wrong voivodship. Could you correct it in proper Polish? (I am unable to do so).

Thanks for any help you can provide!

--Jpbrenna 20:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * http://www.wagrowiec.pl/index.php?menu=2
 * There is a map of Powiat Wagrowiecki and Gmina Wapno. Do you think you could use that to help you draw a map in that nice, blue-white style you use? --Jpbrenna 22:01, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again but...
Here is a copy of a post I left at another user's discussion board. It seems that he has stopped using Wikipedia, so I'm dumping the problems in yours and Piotrus's laps instead (makes you want to resign your adminship, doesn't it?). Hopefully you can offer some suggestions on the first issue, and either fix up the second -- or, since I know you already have your hands full here, pass the issue on to the appropriate Polish Wikipedia admin. Thanks!--Jpbrenna 22:14, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * CC:Piotrus


 * The following is a copy of my message left at Cauis2ga's userpage

I.P. Brennus S.D. Caio Suo:

I was wondering if you could take a look at the Wapno and Wagrowiec articles I've been working on. I'm asking you because a) you are a native speaker of Polish and b) the creator of the Wagrowiec article (hope I haven't messed it up too much!)

I have two principal concerns:


 * 1)Wagrowiec is both a city, a rural commune, and a county (for which there is already an article). Should we have a separate article for the rual commune, or should I include it in the article about Wagrowiec the city? If we include Wagrowiec rural commune, should I just collapse its population figure with that of the city, and leave the "urban" figure as is? Where are we going to put the separate herb picture if we combine the urban and rural municipalities?
 * 2) Wapno. There is a Polish version Wapno (wie&#347;) that seems to put Wapno in Kuyavia-Pomerania Voivodship; however, I ran a search in a modern Polish electronic gazetteer (http://www.pilot.pl/index.php3?Z_CITY_NAME=Wapno&form_t=1&lang=en), and no alternative Wapno seems to exist. Could the author of the Polish article have accidently put it in the wrong powiat? It looks like Wapno may have originally been in the county of Znin, which is in Kuyavia-Pomerania Voivodship. Maybe that led to some confusion? I had Halibutt look at it and his solution was to simply drop the link, but I'm thinking that the Polish article may need correction, and may need to be moved to Gmina Wapno. I have to confess that I probably started all this confusion by putting up a request for a Wapno article several months ago. I didn't know that it was an official gmina of modern Poland. All I knew was the name, and that it was "around Poznan" (some of my ancestors came to America from Wapno in the 1890's and the story of their origins has been passed down with decreasing clarity and accuracy over the generations, I'm afraid). Unfortunately, I don't know enough Polish to clean up the mess that I've created. Perhaps you could fix it, or maybe you could send a message in Polish to one of the administrators of the Polish Wikipedia for me? I don't know enough to compose one :(

I appreciate any guidance and help you can give me! --Jpbrenna 20:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

De comitis et comitatibus polonis, et aliis rebus
I didn't start the Wagrowiec County article, I just edited it. It was very stubbly when I found it( still is). Shall I move it to "Wagrowiec Administrative District" (the term the Vagrovians use on their English-language website)? And I should probably change the name of this Wapno to Gmina Wapno or Wapno-Wagrowiec since there may at some point be an article about the other Wapno.

As for the nobility of Poldand: the szlachta were only equal after the Union of Lublin, right? Before that, and after the partition, weren't there sometimes distinctions in rank, depending on the area? The reason I ask is because the history of Wapno page mentions "komes Adam z Wapna" and "komesem Rozalem", which I took to be "Count Adam of Wapno" and "Count Rozal," from the Latin comes.  I know the usual term is Hrobia, but I found a source in the online archives of the Polish Genealogical Society of America that translated komes as "count." The problem here is that I know very little Polish, so all the info I extracted from the informacje o Wapnie is guesswork. But it looks like it's saying that Adam was "sprung from the tree of W&#322;adyslaw &#321;okietek" and that he was a count. Powiat does not = county, sensu stricto; this I accept &mdash; but is it really true that Poland never, ever had any counts?

Let me know about the page move. And if you have time, check that Wapno history page and let me know if komes should be rendered "Count" or if it means something else. --Jpbrenna 23:42, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, I checked, and I did start the Wagrowiec County article...but, I was following a link that had already been created. Judging by this Category:Land_counties_of_Poland and the massive number of "counties" on it, powers uknown have already decreed that powiat should be rendered "county."  Who are we to argue with their august wikimajesties?  Besides, I think it is the best choice in English: American counties have never had counts (except possibly Maryland, when it was Lord Baltimore's domain), and not every English county is coterminus with an earldom, but quatenary jurisdictions are called "counties" nonetheless.  It's just the word English-speaking people like to employ, unless they live in Louisianna, where they have "parishes."--Jpbrenna 04:25, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The word "county" is also used on the English versions of websites of many powiats... Ausir 06:32, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Klodzko
Odpowiedzialem tak jak na kazdy inny PR. Bez taryfy ulgowej :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:06, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Template:Szlachta ?
Zaproponowalem to miesiac temu Emaxowi, specjaliscie od templatow roznych, ale ze nam zniknal, wiec dopiero teraz sobie o tym przypomnialem ponownie. Co o tym sadzisz?

I was thinking of making a template in place of current bioboxes in our szlachta article. First, I am thinking if it should be Template:Szlachta or Template:Szlachcic (but what about szlachcianka?). I think we should base it on Template:Infobox Biography. I was thinking expanding it with the following sections: Noble Family, Coat of Arms, Offices (that's one important thing that is missing from our current hand mande boxes), Parents, Consorts, Children, Place and Date of Birth, Place and Date of Death. Finally, we can also use a variant of that for our kings. What do you think? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 12:03, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hrobias and Counts and Grafs -- Oh my!
Thanks for the explanation on my page. Check out the tinkering I did with the count article. At least there will be some clarification there on the issue of counts in Polish history. (It needs more discussion their history in France, Germany et. al.; maybe I'll get around to that sometime).--69.245.192.52 21:34, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Easier, but boring. You know you like those exotic titles too.  Don't deny it!  --Jpbrenna 02:12, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't romanticize the period of feudal domination and repression, Comrade Administrator Halibutt. It wasn't Knights of the Round Table at all. Have you been staring at Wojciech Kossak paintings for too long?  Quick,comrade, read about the glorious Worker's Paradise  for a bit of socialist realism that will bring you out of your daydream.


 * I am, of course, being facetious, as I was with the comment about the exotic titles. The main attracton the foreign titles hold for me is philological.  I'm fascinated by the interesting linguistic phenomena produced by the Polonization of foreign words: (g-->h and f-->b see in graf changing to hrobia, etc.)  I'm not at all attracted by the phenomena of partition and forced (or in some cases, bribed or cajoled) Germanization and Russification, however.--Jpbrenna 05:47, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

History of the Jews in Poland
I did added the bibliography and external links to History of the Jews in Poland page but it needs a lot of re-write. The whole section about the Anti-Semitism in Modern Poland needs to be replaced with a solid info about Jewish revival in post-communist Poland. Can you help? --Ttyre 08:21, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Any help? --Ttyre 16:20, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image:Rzeczpospolita_1920.png
Hey Halibutt, I was looking at this map, and I was wondering how you chose which cities got big circles, and which ones little circles. Why, for instance, do Lodz and Stettin get big circles, but Kaunas does not? john k 03:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kaunas was, at least, the seat of government of Lithuania. Since obvious non-capitals also have the big circle, it seems like it would make sense to give it to Kaunas as well. (I will note that I have an atlas from 1928 or so which shows "Kovno" as the capital of Lithuania.) john k 04:09, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Svitrigaila
Please take a look at edits of an anon (editing under several IPs) in this article and in a number of other articles. He seems to copy place names from some English text and produces things like "princess of Kujawsk" and Prince of Trock (I guess it must be Kujawy and Troki) I fixed some of them on sight, but I am not that familiar in Polish toponymics. Mikkalai 18:19, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

nazwy samolotów
Pyta&#322;e&#347; kiedy&#347; o nazwy PZL P.23 - rzuc okiem na. Pozdrowienia Pibwl 23:05, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

L'wow / L'viv
Hello Halibutt,

Have you noticed that the L'viv article's sketchy history section contains nothing about the Soviets running the Poles out of L'wow?

On German Wiki, by contrast, it's mentioned: "Die meisten in der Stadt und ihrer Umgebung ansässigen Polen wurden vertrieben, viele von ihnen ließen sich in Niederschlesien nieder."

As mentioned some time ago, I've read that Khrushchev was a primary figure in the "Sovietization" of western Ukraine – on Stalin's orders, of course.

Sca 19:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Jurgów
An article on Jurgów was recently created, don't know if you if ever heard of it but thought you may find it interesting nonetheless. -JCarriker 09:48, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Rydz
Drogi Halibucie, twe instrukcje co do grobu Rydza nie byly takie dobre. Od Alei Zasluzonych trzeba isc co najmniej 1\2 km. Wlasciwa droga to: wejsc przez Brame IV i isc na prawo wzdluz muru cmentarnego, mijajac po lewej stronie glaz szewca Hiszpanskiego. Dojsc wzdluz muru do grobowca Mittagow z czerwonego piaskowca przy murze, stamtad prosto jak strzala w lewo. Grob Rydza jest z daleka widoczny - imponujacy pomnik z granitu wzniesiony 5 lutego 1994 r., na drzewkach ktore wyrosly na prochach marszalka flagi, objasnienia itd.

Greetings from Warsaw--Alexvonf 09:58, 4 May 2005 (UTC)


 * co jeszcze w Alei Zasluzonych robi Nowotko i czemu jest tam symboliczny grob Moscickiego, a o Rydzu ani slowa- a w katakumbach najciekawsza jest plyta na filarze z litera Z - flaki generala Zajaczka! Ciesze sie znalazlem grob poety Rolicza-Liedera,o ktory pisalem w wikipedia.de.

Once more greetings from cold Warsaw--Alexvonf 19:00, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Polish Persians
Carissime Halibutt, I was wondering if you could take a look at the Anders's Army section of the Persian Corridor article and fill in anything about Anders, his soldiers and the civilian refugees that I might have missed? --Jpbrenna 20:35, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Black Ruthenian language
Please take a look at Talk:Black Ruthenian language. I suspect the article is a device of newbred overzealous belarussian nationalist historians. Mikkalai 22:12, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Map
First I tried to tell that in talk page, but it didnt worked, so I tried to edit your map of 1920 Poland, but it doesnt seems that this has worked too. Basically, what is wrong is that the Latvian/Russian and Estonian/Russian boundaries are shown incorrectly, without Abrene region of Latvia and Petseri region and East coast of Narva of Estonia. These were the territories which belonged to said countries but after WW2 were detached from their SSRs and joined to Russia instead (see Occupied territories of Baltic States for more info). Here is a map of Baltic States in the interwar: http://www.mazal.org/images/Maps/Lithuania02.jpg. Also what I did was that I marked in gray the southern boundary of Lithuanian the Lithuanian claim. I tried to upload new map twice to the Wikimedia commons but maybe it not worked, or maybe I have to wait I dont know this was the first time I used commons. If it doesnt works and you dont have time to correct the said things yourself, I might send you the map via e-mail or such so you could upload. Or else you could correct the borders. DeirYassin 20:59, 7 May 2005 (UTC)


 * If you reverted it back, I guess you seen what I have corrected there (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/e/e9/20050508063342%21Rzeczpospolita_1920.png). You can compare that version I made with the version of yours and see where Latvian-Russian and Estonian-Russian border should be different (it is the correct interwar border in my version, and current border in your version; you can look to that map I gave you a link to (http://www.mazal.org/images/Maps/Lithuania02.jpg) or any other interwar map, or even current Estonian maps as 50% of them marks the said territories as occupied territories of Estonia, to get a proove on that). As for the claim, it should be marked IMO too because usually territorial claims are marked on maps in some way (e.g. dotted lines). Propaganda maps issued in certain country doesnt have them (e.g. it is forbidden in India to dot out Kashmir and in Morroco to show Western Sahara as disputed), but usual maps usually separates the disputed territories. DeirYassin 09:34, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Note - I dont know what the map you gave me link to shows, but definitely not Lithuanian claims. I think it either shows the vision of some Lithuanians of Lithuanian state (as they envisioned it during WW1), or maybe some Lithuanian actual control or some Lithuanian zone of German occupation during WW1, I dont know. The real Lithuanian claim was as I drawn it on the map, I drawn it according to several maps I have, from history books and historical atlas. It's more eastwards than the map you linked to but way less to the south, certainly doesn't include Balstog&#279;, Drohi&#269;inas or such, but it includes cities of Breslauja, Smurgainys, Ašmena to th eeast which are marked not as part of Lithuania ain that map. As for the Baltic-Russian borders, here is good map: http://www.ii.uib.no/~eero/matk/Epilt/eesti.jpg, it compares current Estonian border with that of interwar. Didnt found a similar thing for Latvia as for now however, because it seems unlike Estonians Latvians doesnt looks back to those territories much so not many such maps are issued probably. As for claims, most of maps of interwar I seen marks the claim for Vilnius region. However I guess Polish maps of the time doesnt show it usually. DeirYassin 12:01, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Hello. Yes, Breslauja was disputed, but not Bratslav.I don't know how Breslauja is called in Polish, it seems it is an entirly different city from Bratslav. I thought it's Breslau, without Lithuanian ending, but appearently that was wrong too. It is a city now in northeast belarus, near borders of Lithuania and Latvia, on Lake Dryviaty, and is known as Braslau. As for the map on that site, I havent seen any map like this before, but I think that most likely it shows some semi-autonomous Lithuania envisioned by some Lithuanians at the time when it was still seemed to be too optimistic to estabilish fully independent Lithuania. As it says years 1915-1918 (Llitterally Lithuania 1915-1918) and also shows frontline, and Lithuania goes to that frontline only. By these years Lithuania was not independent, it was ruled by Germans. The southen border of real claim went along Nemunas river in the south. Unfortuantely I could not find a map online, because it seems there is a real shortage of Lithuanian historical maps online, but I have quite a bunch of paper maps in historical books and atlases here showing it like that.DeirYassin 19:31, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Currently the map is incorrect and it does not distinguishes between different regions (occupied part of Lithuania (Vilnius region) and disputed zone, claimed by Lithuania (Suvalkai region)); I made some maps now to show where these regions are. DeirYassin 23:07, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * So, did the map sending worked correctly? DeirYassin 19:45, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Kampania wrzesniowa - numbers
Moze ty bedziesz mial jakies dobre zrodla pod r&#281;k&#261;. Po tym jak zebra&#322;em ró&#380;nice z infoboxa, tekstu i artykulu o Polsce, to sie za glowe chwycilem - roznice dochodza do kilkuset procent! Zobacz: Talk:Polish_September_Campaign i poratuj. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:41, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Co sadzisz?
Talk:Allies i Peer review/Polish September Campaign/archive1? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:35, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh dear!
That Vilnius / Wilno discussion page is beginning to look worse than the Gdansk / Danzig one did last year.

In oder not to engender further vituperation there, I'll ask here: If "almost the entire population of the area of Vilna" was expelled by the Soviets, why is Vilnius today 18 percent Polish?

This is basically the same question I asked before about the Vilnius article.

btw, you might check out the 'new' photo on my user page.

Sca 19:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Polish Barnstar of National Merit
Hey, I uploaded the new image of the barnstar, but I did not see what you wanted to do until after I uploaded. Let me draw you the new medal, again, with the ribbon. Also, I have ribbon bars for the Wikithanks, if you want them. Zscout370 (talk) 03:37, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * One more thing, I was wondering why you placed the template of the Polish BoNM on my talk page. Thanks. Zscout370 (talk) 03:58, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, Halibutt, it works like this: if you place the template with a pic on sb's page it usually means you give him the medal - so you may want to remove it (preferably keeping the link by changing to Template ) or add a dedication to it so it is an official award :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 12:26, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I will move it to a template soon. Plus, the template was there to show what it will look now. Zscout370 (talk) 14:07, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

PSB
If you haven't noticed, I am close to finishing the [] - just need to put the txt on Wiki :) I just can't decide if I should do it at my userpage (it is, after all, not translated yet) or official List of Poles...suggestions? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:15, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Orzelek2.gif
Nie wiesz co sie stalo z plikiem, którego u&#380;ywala m.in Template:Kings_and_Dukes_of_Poland ? Lysy 16:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * A ju&#380; wiem: "Due to a hardware failure, some images are temporarily unavailable."
 * From what I see on top is that probably power went out where the picture servers are held at. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:42, 13 May 2005 (UTC)



disrupting wikipedia policy vote
You voted once for the policy at Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Despite a 75% support that vote was rejected by the minority. A new vote has been called with a two week limit at Wikipedia talk:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Please take a moment to participate. Thanks. - T&#949;x  &#964;  ur&#949;  17:04, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Zobacz
Order of Saint Stanislaus

Ribbon bar
I welcome you to expand on this stub. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:58, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Szczerców
Do tego nie trzeba admina - zadnej sensownej historii nie bylo, wiec zrobilem recznie copy and paste > --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:06, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Vfd vote
I invite your vote and comments on Votes for deletion/Occupied territories of Baltic States. Balcer 17:58, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Peer Review
Hey. I was wondering if you wish to look at the article Hero of Belarus. Once you do, please leave any comments at Peer review/Hero of Belarus/archive2. Thanks. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 15:37, 16 May 2005 (UTC)