User:MTC/Article names

On this page, long but thorough arguments on how I think naming disputes should be resolved. I’m open to alternative arguments, but they must address all applicable parts of my argument. I’m also very open to corrections of anything factual that I may have got wrong.

Ireland
Ireland should be a disambiguation page, listing anything that could claim to be called Ireland.

Every article that it links to should be either at a longer and unambiguous name or be at “Ireland (something)”, which again must be completely unambiguous. The island should be at Ireland (island). That’s indisputable if you go with this decision method.

Now, let’s look at the possibilities for the countries, and eliminate anything that is unacceptable for any reason: Ireland (country), Ireland (sovereign state), Ireland (state) – all have the same problem, they could refer to any of the countries through history that have been called Ireland. Ireland (republic): Irish Republic or the current country? Republic of Ireland: some claim this is no longer a valid name for the existing country. If this is true, it must be eliminated, but I can’t be sure this is true.

So what are we left with? Well, if the current country can only be described as Ireland, it must be at Ireland (something), so what is that something? Shortest I can come up with is Ireland (current state). “state” could be replaced with “country” or “republic” and still be acceptable.

Now, the above paragraph assumes you can’t use “Republic of Ireland”, which is one of the most disputed points of this debate. I was previously on the side believing that “Republic of Ireland” could be used, as a legitimate long‐form name of the country. I saw no reason why this wasn’t the case. That was until I was made aware of this ruling by the Irish Supreme Court, which states clearly that “Republic of Ireland is not [the country’s] correct name”. That settles it for me, that is an official statement by a body representing the Irish state that using “Republic of Ireland” is wrong, meaning it can only be correctly referred to as Ireland.

In conclusion, my preference is for Ireland to be a disambiguation page, the island’s article to be at Ireland (island), and the current country’s article to be at Ireland (current state).

China
Now, I think the article naming and information layout should be decided by the Wikipedia in the original language of the subject, which in this case is zh:, and followed by all other Wikipedias (with transliteration/translation if the need is considered to exist). However, there is no reason why editors of other Wikipedias should be prevented from making their own case for how the articles should be arranged, just as long as the final decision is made on zh: and followed by all the other Wikipedias.

Article titles I suggest here will be based on the “further compromised” naming policy listed on my userpage (that is: use word-for-word translations for country names and words derived from them, and romanizations for everything else.), but I will try where possible to keep the arguments general, in keeping with the above “start with zh:, everything else follows their lead” policy.

中国 (Zhōngguó; China) can mean several different things, so it should be a disambiguation page. 台灣 (Táiwān) can also mean several different things, so it should also be a disambiguation page.

There should be articles specifically about the modern versions of both the country ruled from Běijīng and the (partially recognized) country ruled from Táiběi.

The current country ruled from Běijīng is officially known as 中华人民共和国 (Zhōnghuá Rénmín Gònghéguó; People’s Republic of China). That term can not refer to any other entity throughout history, and so is an acceptable name for the article on the Běijīng-governed country from 1949 to today.

The partially recognized country ruled from Táiběi is called 中華民國 (Zhōnghuá Mínguó; Republic of China). However, this name also refers to the country that existed from 1912 to 1949 governing the whole of China. Technically speaking, this is the same government, but the fact that in 1949 it lost most of its area and moved its capital means that that is merely a technicality. In short, pre-1949 Republic of China and post-1949 Republic of China are two different subjects, and should be covered in two separate articles.

I’d propose calling these articles Republic of China (1912–1949) and Republic of China (1949–present). There are other possibilities for each, but these seem to be more standard as a disambiguation method.

There should also be a purely geographical article about the island called Táiwān. The title of this is very simple: Táiwān (island) (or without the diacritics, the romanization system seems to be defined to allow either).

In addition, there seems to be a need for an article on the Chinese civilization. For the title of this I’d go with Chinese civilization, though this is the one I’m least sure about. As I said at the start of this, it should depend entirely on what makes sense in Chinese.