User:Paul August/sandbox

Medusa: Recent changes
Recently, how we describe Ovid's treatment of the Medusa story has been edited by Aquillion.

Old version
"In a late version of the Medusa myth, by the Roman poet Ovid, Medusa was originally a beautiful maiden, but when Neptune (the Roman equivalent of the Greek Poseidon) mated with her in Minerva's temple (Minerva being the Roman equivalent of the Greek Athena), Minerva punished Medusa by transforming her beautiful hair into horrible snakes."

New version
"In a late version of the Medusa myth, by the Roman poet Ovid, Medusa was originally a beautiful maiden. Translations of Ovid describe Neptune (the Roman equivalent of the Greek Poseidon) as raping her her in Minerva's temple (Minerva being the Roman equivalent of the Greek Athena).  Some sources use different language or translate the scene differently; and some people say that whether Ovid means that Medusa was raped is unclear in the original text. Minerva punished Medusa by transforming her beautiful hair into horrible snakes."

Discussion
I have some issues with the old version, and I agree with Aquillion that that version is not ideal. But I also have issues with the new version. I would like to discuss some of these issues here.

Many sources describe Ovid’s Medusa as being raped by Neptune. But some do not. Here are some examples from the sources I have immediately at hand:


 * Translations:
 * Brookes More: "the Sovereign of the Sea attained her love in chaste Minerva's temple"
 * Frank Justus Miller translation, as revised by G. P. Goold: "in Minerva’s temple Neptune, lord of the Ocean, ravished her"


 * Mythological reference works:
 * Hard (Robin Hard, The Routledge Handbook of Greek Mythology: Based on H.J. Rose's "Handbook of Greek Mythology", Psychology Press, 2004), p. 61, says Medusa was "seduced".
 * Grimal (Pierre Grimal, The Dictionary of Classical Mythology, Wiley-Blackwell, 1996. ISBN 978-0-631-20102-1), p. 174, says Medusa was "ravished".
 * Bell, (Robert E. Bell, Women of Classical Mythology: A Biographical Dictionary, ABC-Clio. 1991. ISBN 9780874365818), pp. 296–297 says Medusa "made the mistake of sleeping with" Neptune.
 * Tripp (Tripp, Edward, Crowell's Handbook of Classical Mythology, Thomas Y. Crowell Co., 1970), p. 363, says Medusa "yielded".

Duffy (one of the sources cited in the new version above) who describes Medusa as being raped, also says this:
 * p. 3

"Like many mythic figures, there are multiple versions of her tale, but they typically follow two threads: Medusa is either the mortal member of the already monstrous Gorgon sisters, or a woman transformed into a monster for the crime of defiling Athena’s temple due to (consensual or non-consensual) sex she has with Poseidon"
 * p. 4

"The Theogony depicts Medusa’s encounter with Poseidon as consensual, or at least does not explicitly describe any coercion … Indeed, it is not until the Metamorphoses that Medusa’s encounter with Poseidon is depicted as assault, and even afterwards it is not common to see the act described as rape in Classical works."
 * p. 5

"As Medusa is a mythical figure, in her case the late and disputed account of her rape functions largely as an example of the variety that marks mythology as a narrative tradition."

All of the above speaks to a lack of universal scholarly consensus about the degree of consent/nonconsent Ovid meant to imply. It would be difficult for us to give an accurate well-sourced agreed-upon characterization of scholarly opinion on this issue.

The primary context here is Greek mythology, and given that Ovid's account is a late Roman, otherwise unknown, and possibly invented by Ovid for literary, poetical, polemical, thematic, or other reasons which tell us nothing about the existing mythology about Medusa, and, in which case, exactly what Ovid meant would be of no mythological significance at all. So this issue does not really need to be dealt with in this paragraph, and trying to do so, in this paragraph, would require a level of detail which would run up against WP:undo.

Previous versions tried to side step this issue by simply saying Neptune "had sex with" or "sexual intercourse with" or "mated with" Medusa, without trying to characterize the degree of consent involved. I think this is the correct approach here (leaving aside the possibility of dealing with this interesting issue elsewhere in the article).

So I'm proposing we simply go back to "mated with", with no discussion about the issue of consent:

"In a late version of the Medusa myth, by the Roman poet Ovid, Medusa was originally a beautiful maiden, but when Neptune (the Roman equivalent of the Greek Poseidon) mated with her in Minerva's temple (Minerva being the Roman equivalent of the Greek Athena), Minerva punished Medusa by transforming her beautiful hair into horrible snakes."
 * Proposed:

If we think we must say something about consent then I propose that we do it in some agreed upon footnote.

Lewis's trilemma
This argument is very popular with Christian apologists, but the argument relies on the assumption that Jesus claimed to be God, something that most biblical scholars do not believe to be true.

Hephaestion
00:45, 12 January 2021

It has been suggested by some modern scholars that as well as being close friends Alexander and Hephaestion were also lovers although hardly any of Alexander's extant ancient Greek or Roman biographers ever refers to Hephaestion as anything but Alexander's friend, and indeed emphasize Alexander's sexual activity with women throughout his life, consistent with Hephaestion's epithet "Philalexandros" which was given to him by Alexander himself. The ancient sources generally name Hephaestion only as a good and loyal friend of Alexander's.

Hybris
Hybris (Ancient Greek: Ὕβρις "wanton violence", "insolence") was the personification of insolence. The Greek poet Pindar tells us that the "golden daughters of wise Themis ... are resolute in repelling Hybris, the bold-tongued mother of Koros (Excess)". Whether this Pan is the same as Pan, the god of shepherds and flocks, who was usually said to be the son of Hermes is unclear.

Children of Eris
According to Hesiod's Theogony, the Amphillogiai were the offspring of Eris (Strife), with no father. Compare with Hyginus which has the singular Altercatio (Altercation) as the offspring of Aether and Terra (Earth).

Hindu–Arabic numeral system
According to some sources, this number system may have originated in Chinese Shang numerals (1200 BC), which was also a decimal positional numeral system.

Here is what these cited sources say:
 * 1) Swetz, p. 30: "an interesting hypothesis arises, namely that the numeration system commonly used in the modern world had its origins 34 centuries ago in Shang China!"
 * 2) Lam 1988, p. 101: "In 'The Conceptual origins of our numeral system and the symbolic form of algebra' and 'Linkages: Exploring the similarities between the Chinese rod numeral system and our numeral system', I advanced the following thesis&mdash;that China is the earliest civilization to possess the concept of our numeral system, also known as the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. In this paper, I summarize the main points that have been put forward and also examine fresh evidence to support a further claim&mdash;that our numeral system has its origins in the Chinese rod numeral system."
 * 3) Lam 2008, p. 198: " ... This fact together with other evidence supports the thesis that The Hindu-Arabic numeral system has its origins in the Chinese rod numeral system".


 * Ang, Tian Se, Lay-Young Lam, Fleeting Footsteps: Tracing The Conception Of Arithmetic And Algebra In Ancient China (Revised Edition), World Scientific, 2004. ISBN 9789814483605.
 * Ang and Lam 2004, p. 185: "the Hindu-Arabic system could only have originated from the rod numeral system".

Orpheus
Pindar, Pythian 4.176–177
 * And from Apollo the lyre-player came, the father of songs, much-praised Orpheus.


 * Pindar, Odes, Diane Arnson Svarlien. 1990. Online version at the Perseus Digital Library.

fr. 128c Race (Threnos 3) 11–12
 * and the son of Oeagrus5 . ..
 * Orpheus of the golden lyre . ..
 * 5 A scholion on Pyth. 4.176 (where Orpheus is Apollo’s son) says that Pindar (among others) called Orpheus the son of Oeagrus. For Orpheus as son of Calliope, cf. Tim. Pers. 221–223.


 * Pindar, Olympian Odes. Pythian Odes. Edited and translated by William H. Race. Loeb Classical Library No. 56. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, 1997. ISBN 978-0-674-99564-2. Online version at Harvard University Press.

Hades

 * Collard, Christopher and Martin Cropp (2008b), Euripides Fragments: Oedipus-Chrysippus: Other Fragments, Loeb Classical Library No. 506, Cambridge, Massachusetts, Harvard University Press, 2008. ISBN 978-0-674-99631-1. Online version at Harvard University Press.

Euripides, in his lost play Pirithous, has both Theseus and Pirithous rescued by Heracles, but a scholium on Aristophanes' Frogs by John Tzetzes, implies that more commonly Pirithous is intended as food for Cerberus, and is not rescued.

Orion (mythology)
The legend of Orion was probably told in the Astronomia a lost work attributed to Hesiod. This version is known through a summary of Eratosthenes's lost work the Catasterismi, on the constellations. According to this summary, Orion was the son of the sea-god Poseidon and Euryale a daughter of Minos, King of Crete. Orion could walk on the waves because of his father; he walked to the island of Chios where he got drunk and raped Merope daughter of Oenopion, the ruler there.

Astraeus
Hyginus tells us that, while Hesiod has Justice (the Roman equivalent of Dike) as being the daughter of Jove (the Roman equivalent of Zeus) and Themis, according to Aratus, Justice was said to be the child of Astraeus and Aurora (the Roman equivalent of Eos).

Hyginus, Astronomica 2.25
 * 2.25.1 VIRGIN: Hesiod calls her the daughter of Jove and Themis. Aratus says that she is thought to be daughter of Astraeus and Aurora, who lived at the time of the Golden Age of men and was their leader. On account of her carefulness and fairness she was called Justice, and at that time no foreign nations were attacked in war, nor did anyone sail over the seas, but they were wont to live their lives caring for their fields. But those born after their death began to be less observant of duty and more greedy, so that Justice associated more rarely with men. Finally the disease became so extreme that it was said the Brazen Race was born; then she could not endure more, and flew away to the stars. Others call her Fortune — others, Ceres, and they dispute the more about her because her head is dimly seen. Some have called her Erigone, daughter of Icarus, whom we have spoken of before. Others call her a daughter of Apollo by Chrysothemis, an infant, named Parthenos. Because she died young she was put by Apollo among the constellations.


 * Hyginus, Gaius Julius, De Astronomica, in The Myths of Hyginus, edited and translated by Mary A. Grant, Lawrence: University of Kansas Press, 1960. Online version at ToposText.

Shang dynasty numerals
I do not believe that the cited sources support the assertion that:
 * According to various sources this number system has its origin in Chinese Shang numerals (1200 BC), which was also a decimal positional value system of base 10.

Here is what the cited sources say
 * 1) Campbell, p. 30: "an interesting hypothesis arises, namely that the numeration system commonly used in the modern world had its origins 34 centuries ago in Shang China!"
 * Lam, p. 101: "In 'The Conceptual origins of our numeral system and the symbolic form of algebra' and 'Linkages: Exploring the similarities between the Chinese rod numeral system and our numeral system', I advanced the following thesis&mdash;that China is the earliest civilization to possess the concept of our numeral system, also known as the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. In this paper, I summarize the main points that have been put forward and also examine fresh evidence to support a further claim&mdash;that our numeral system has its origins in the Chinese rod numeral system."
 * 1) Encyclopaedia of the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine in Non-Western Cultures, p. 198: I find no mention of Shang numerals. The only mention of Shang dynasty numerals or numeral system is on p. 1371, where Andrea Eberhard-Bréard writes: "Archaeologic finds from the Shang dynasty (fourteenth to eleventh century BCE) show the earliest number symbols inscribed on bones and tortoise shells. By then, different decimal and sexagesimal systems were in use. The use of rod-numerals is also attested on coins as early as from the Wang period (9-23 AD). These are related to instruments in use. For calculations, numbers were represented on a calculation surface by counting rods. The representation follows a decimal positional notation, where nine different signs for numbers ..."

None of these sources are asserting&mdash;as a fact&mdash;that the Shang dynasty numerals were the origin of the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. The most we can say, based on these sources, is that they might be.

Unless better sources are provided I'm going to delete this sentence. Paul August &#9742; 17:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Argia

 * Argia, an Argive princess as the daughter of King Adrastus and Amphithea, daughter of Pronax. She married Polynices, son of Oedipus and bore him three sons: Thersander, Adrastus and Timeas.
 * Argia, a Theban princess as the daughter of King Autesion. She married Aristodemus and became the mother of twins, Eurysthenes and Procles, the ancestors of the two royal houses of Sparta.
 * Argeia, was also an epithet of the Greek goddess Hera derived from Argos, the principal seat of her worship.

Medusa
In a late version of the Medusa myth, by the Roman poet Ovid, Medusa was originally a beautiful maiden, but when Neptune (the Roman equivalent of the Greek Poseidon) had sex with   her in Minerva's temple (Minerva being the Roman equivalent of the Greek Athena), Minerva punished Medusa by transforming her beautiful hair into horrible snakes. Although no earlier version mention this, ancient depictions of Medusa as a beautiful maiden instead of a horrid monster predate Ovid. In classical Greek art, the depiction of Medusa shifted from hideous beast to an attractive young woman, both aggressor and victim, a tragic figure in her death. The earliest of those depictions comes courtesy of Polygnotus, who drew Medusa as a comely woman sleeping peacefully as Perseus beheads her. As the act of killing a beautiful maiden in her sleep is rather unheroic, it is not clear whether those vases are meant to elicit sympathy for Medusa's fate, or to mock the traditional hero.

See also Heroides 11.37

s.v. vitio

Nyx

 * Cicero, Marcus Tullius, De Natura Deorum in Cicero: On the Nature of the Gods. Academics, translated by H. Rackham, Loeb Classical Library No. 268, Cambridge, Massachusetts, Harvard University Press, first published 1933, revised 1951. ISBN 978-0-674-99296-2. Online version at Harvard University Press. Internet Archive.


 * 3.17
 * Amor Dolus Metus1 Labor Invidentia Fatum Senectus Mors Tenebrae Miseria Querella Gratia Fraus Pertinacia Parcae Hesperides Somnia, quos omnis Erebo et Nocte natos ferunt.’


 * Love, Guile, Fear, Toil, Envy, Fate, Old Age, Death, Darkness, Misery, Lamentation, Favour, Fraud, Obstinacy, the Parcae, the Daughters of Hesperus, the Dreams: all of these are fabled to be the children of Erebus and Night.’


 * Amor (Love), Dolus (Guile), Metus (Fear), Labor (Toil), Invidentia (Envy), Fatum (Fate), Senectus (Old Age), Mors (Death), Tenebrae (Darkness), Miseria (Misery), Querella (Lamentation), Gratia (Favor), Fraus (Fraud), Pertinacia (Obstinacy), Parcae, Hesperides, Smnia (Dreams)

Morpheus
The only mention of Morpheus occurs in Ovid's Metamorphoses, where Ovid tells of the story of Ceyx and his wife Alcyone who were transformed into birds. In Ovid's account Juno (via the messenger goddess Iris) send Morpheus to appear to Alcyone in a dream, as her husband Ceyx, to tell her of his death.

Ovid makes Morpheus one of the thousand sons of Somnus (Sleep) (the Roman equivalent of the Greek Hypnos). His name derives from the Greek word for form (μορφή), and his function was apparently to appear in dreams in human guise. According to Ovid "no other is more skilled than he in representing the gait, the features, and the speech of men; the clothing also and the accustomed words of each he represents." Like other gods associated with sleep, Ovid presents Morpheus as winged.

Nyx
According to the Roman mythographer Hyginus, Nyx's Roman equivalent Nox was, along with Aether (Brightness) and Dies (Day), and Erebus, the offspring of Chaos and Caligio (Mist).


 * Hyginus, Gaius Julius, Fabulae in Apollodorus' Library and Hyginus' Fabulae: Two Handbooks of Greek Mythology, Translated, with Introductions by R. Scott Smith and Stephen M. Trzaskoma, Hackett Publishing Company, 2007. ISBN 978-0-87220-821-6.

Hermes
Phlegon of Tralles said he was invoked to ward off ghosts, and Apollodorus reports several events involving Hermes. He participated in the Gigantomachy in defense of Olympus; was given the task of bringing baby Dionysus to be cared for by Ino and Athamas and later took him to be cared for by the Nysan nymphs, later called the Hyades; lead Hera, Athena and Aphrodite to Paris to be judged by him in a beauty contest; favored the young Hercules by giving him a sword when he finished his education; and aided Perseus in fetching the head of the Gorgon Medusa.

Porus

 * The name of both kings is Porus. Yes some sources refer to "Porus the Elder" or "Porus the Younger" but usually when the two kings need to be distinguished, "Porus the elder", and "Porus the younger"&mdash;without capitalization, hence not as a proper noun&mdash;are used. But since both articles cannot be named "Porus" we need to add a disambiguator to one or both. I would suggest that Porus seems to clearly be the WP:primary topic, and so this article can stay at "Porus", while Porus the Younger should be renamed to say "Porus (the younger)".

Zagreus
Recently u:Zagreus99 replaced:
 * In Greek, a hunter who catches living animals is called zagreus, Karl Kerényi notes, and the Ionian word zagre signifies a "pit for the capture of live animals"

with the following:
 * As interpreted by Karl Kerényi based on a Hesychian gloss, the Ionian Greek word for a hunter who catches living animals is called zagreus, and the word zagre signifies a "pit for the capture of live animals".

I think this perhaps misreads what Kerényi has said. Here is the relevant quote from Kerényi:
 * In Greek, a hunter who catches living animals is called zagreus. Later Greek scholars interpret the name as "great hunter" by analogy with zatheos, "thoroughly divine."100 But the Ionian word zagre,101 signifying "pit for the capture of animals," proves that the name contains within it the root of zoë and zoön, "life" and "living thing." An exact translation of "Zagreus" would be "cather of game."

Acaste (mythological nurse), Acaste (Oceanid)?
Hi Ficaia, a month ago, I PRODed Acaste (mythological nurse) and Acaste (Oceanid), with the reason that the "content of [these] article[s] is adequately covered at Acaste". However you apparently objected to these articles being deleted, and so removed my PRODs. Since then I've made several changes to these two articles, in particular removing errors and unsourced content, as well as other content that I don't thing is needed such as the two long quotes from Acaste (Oceanid). I think the current state of these two articles makes it more clear why the article Acaste is sufficient. So I would like to PROD both articles again, but I thought I would run it by you first. Regards, Paul August &#9742; 12:55, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Helios
In ancient Greek religion and mythology, Helios ($Ἥλιος$; Homeric Greek: $Ἠέλιος$), is the god and personification of the Sun (Solar deity). His name is Latinized as Helius, and he is often given the epithets Hyperion ("the one above") and Phaethon ("the shining"). He is often depicted in art with a radiant crown and driving a horse-drawn chariot through the sky. He was a guardian of oaths and also the god of sight. Though Helios was a relatively minor deity in Classical Greece, his worship grew more prominent in late antiquity thanks to his identification with several major solar divinities of the Roman period, particularly Apollo and Sol. The Roman Emperor Julian made Helios the central divinity of his short-lived revival of traditional Roman religious practices in the 4th century AD.

– –

Circe
Roman poets associated her with the most ancient traditions of Latium, and made her home to be on the promontory of Circeo.


 * Virgil, Aeneid [books 7–12], in Aeneid: Books 7-12. Appendix Vergiliana, translated by H. Rushton Fairclough, revised by G. P. Goold, Loeb Classical Library No. 64, Cambridge, Massachusetts, Harvard University Press, 2000. ISBN 978-0-674-99586-4. Online version at Harvard University Press.

Gould, n. 2
 * 2 Circeii, a promontory of Latium, but once an island, is identified by Virgil with Homer’s island of Aeaea, the home of Circe.

Erebus
According to the Fabulae of Hyginus, Erebus, Nox (Night), Aether and Dies (Day) are the offspring of Chaos and Caligine (Mist), and Erebus, by Nyx, is the father of the Hesperides, the Parcae, the Keres, Nemesis, Eros, Thanatos, Hypnos, Geras, Styx, Charon, Epiphron, Moros, Porphyrion, Lysimeles, Eris, Momus, Epaphus, Oizys, Hybris, Euphrosyne, Philotes and Eleos.

Fate, Old Age, Death, Dissolution, Continence, Sleep, Dreams, Love — that is, Lysimeles, Epiphron, Porphyrion, Epaphus, Discord, Wretchedness, Wantonness, Nemesis, Euphrosyne, Friendship, Compassion, Styx; the three Fates, namely, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos; the Hesperides, Aegle, Hesperie, aerica.

Fate, Old age, Death, Destruction, Strife, Sleep, Dreams, Thoughtfulness, Hedymeles, Porphyrion, Epaphus, Discord, Misery, Petulance, Nemesis, Cheerfullness, Friendship, Pity, Styx, the Parcae (Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos), and the Hesperides (Aegle, Hesperia, and Erythea).

Ersa
In Greek mythology, according to Plutarch, the 7th century BC Greek poet Alcman said that Ersa or Herse  (Ἔρσα, Ἕρση, literally "dew"), the personification of dew, is the daughter of Zeus and the Moon (Selene). Plutarch writes:

Talk:Mathematics
Until relatively recently (11 July 2019) the lead sentence had, for a very long time, read:
 * Mathematics (from Greek μάθημα máthēma, "knowledge, study, learning") includes the study of such topics as quantity, structure, space, and change.


 * The inclusion of the parentheticals of "Number theory", "algebra", "geometry", and "mathematical analysis" (added here). While I think these may be useful for connecting these abstract notions with mathematical terminology, I agree with that we should hew conservatively to the sources. I do however think these associations are generally correct (I might replace Number theory with arithmetic)

Talk:Theogony

 * The relevant line from the Theogony is line 229:
 * Νείκεά τε Ψεύδεά τε Λόγους τ’ Ἀμφιλλογίας τε (Most 2018, p. 20; West (1966), p. 120.)


 * Here are four modern translations of line 229:
 * and Strifes and Lies and Tales and Disputes (Most 2018, p. 21)
 * Quarrels, Lies, Pretenses, and Arguments (West 1988, p. 10)
 * Neikea, Pseudea, Logoi, and Amphillogiai (Caldwell 1987, p. 42, which on p. 6 table 5 translates the names as "Neikea [Quarrels]", "Pseudea [Lies]", "Logoi [Stories]", and "Amphillogiai [Disputes]"),
 * Quarrels and Lies and Stories and Disputes (Wender 1973, p. 30)


 * Evelyn-White's 1914 Greek text:
 * Νείκεά τε ψευδέας τε Λόγους Ἀμφιλλογίας τε
 * and corresponding translation is simply out of date.

Descendants of Nyx
Meanwhile, Nyx (Night) alone produced children: Moros (Doom), Ker (Destiny), Thanatos (Death), Hypnos (Sleep), Oneiroi (Dreams), Momus (Blame), Oizys (Pain), Hesperides (Daughters of Night), Moirai (Fates), Keres (Destinies), Nemesis (Retribution), Apate (Deceit), Philotes (Love), Geras (Old Age), and Eris (Discord).

And from Eris alone, came Ponos (Hardship), Lethe (Forgetfulness), Limos (Starvation), Algea (Pains), Hysminai (Battles), Makhai (Wars), Phonoi (Murders), Androktasiai (Manslaughters), Neikea (Quarrels), Pseudea (Lies), Logoi (Stories), Amphillogiai (Disputes), Dysnomia (Anarchy), Ate (Ruin), and Horkos (Oath).

Amalthea
There were different traditions regarding Amalthea. Amalthea is sometimes represented as the goat who suckled the infant-god in a cave in Cretan Mount Aigaion ("Goat Mountain"), sometimes as a goat-tending nymph of uncertain parentage (the daughter of Oceanus, Helios, Haemonius, or—according to Lactantius—Melisseus ), who brought him up on the milk of her goat. The possession of multiple and uncertain mythological parents indicates wide worship of a deity in many cultures having varying local traditions. Other names, like Adrasteia, Ide, the nymph of Mount Ida, or Adamanthea, which appear in mythology handbooks, are simply duplicates of Amalthea.

Pan "had sex with" Selene
How should we describe Pan's relationship with Selene? I've suggested that we describe as an "affair" (Gantz, p. 36, and Kerenyi, p. 175, and Grimal, s.v. Selene, all call it an "affair", with Grimal saying Selene was famous for such "affairs"). But "affair" was objected to (by [u|NebY]) as implying an ongoing relationship. I don't think it necessarily does imply that, and there is no reason to believe that this relationship wasn't necessarily ongoing. Simply saying Pan "had sex with" her (the current wording)&mdash;although better than the previous, in my opinion too-clinical, "had sexual intercourse" with&mdash;completely fails to capture the romantic nature of the relationship. How about replacing "sex" with "a tryst"? I think I will go ahead and try that and see if it sticks.

There was a legend that Pan once had sex with the moon goddess Selene, in one account (by Virgil) seducing her with the gift of a sheep's white fleece, while in another (by Servius, ascribed to the Greek poet Nicander) he seduced her by wrapping himself in a fleece to disguise himself as a sheep.

According to Virgil, Selene also had a tryst with the god Pan, who seduced her with a "snowy bribe of wool". Scholia on Virgil add the story, ascribed to Nicander, that as part of the seduction, Pan wrapped himself in a sheepskin.


 * Hard, p. 46
 * There is an interesting but poorly attested legend in which Pan is said to have seduced her [Selene]. Vergil mentions in passing in the Georgics that he won her over by offering her the snowy fleece of a sheep, and the scholia report that the Hellenistic poet Nicander offered an account in which Pan wrapped himself in a sheepskin to approach her. 141 [Verg. Georg. 3.191-3, with Serv. ad loc. referring to Nicander.] The rusticity of the tale suggests that it may have originated as a local legend in Arcadia.


 * Gantz, p. 36
 * One other tale of Selene involves an affair with Pan. Vergil says that Pan won her favors with the gift of a sheep (G.3-391-93), but the scholia thereto make the god cover himself with a sheepskin (i.e. turn into a sheep?) and ascribe th story to Nikandros.


 * Kerenyi
 * p. 175
 * But Pan's greates passion was for Selene. Of the affair it was told542 that the moon/goddess refused to company with the dark god. Whereupon Pan, to please her, dressed himself in white sheep/skins, and thus seduced Selene. He even carried her on his back. It is, of course, uncertain whether even in the earliest time it was necessary for him thus to change his shape in order to play the role of succeeful lover with a goddess who repeatedly lets herself be embraced by darkness.
 * p. 196
 * but she [Selene] could be carried off by a goat&mdash;one occasion actually by Pan himself, who as I have already told, seduced her by wrapping himself in a sheep/skin.


 * Grimal, s.v. Selene
 * She was famous for her love affairs ... in Arcadia her lover was Pan who had given her as a present a herd of white oxen.


 * Tripp, s.v. Selene
 * [she] is said to have been seduced by Pan with the gift of a beautiful fleece.


 * Servius, Commentary on the Georgics of Vergil 391
 * MUNERE SIC NIVEO L. S. C. D. ... fabula sic est: Pan cum Lunae amore flagraret, ut illi formosus videretur, niveis velleribus se circumdedit atque ita eam ad rem veneriam illexit. huius opinionis auctor est Nicander: nec poterat esse nisi Graecus.
 * [The story is as follows: When Pan was burning with love for the moon, in order that he might appear to her handsome, he covered himself with snow-white wool, and thus enticed her to engage in sexual intercourse. The author of this opinion is Nicander; and he could not be but a Greek.]


 * Servius, Commentary on the Georgics of Vergil, Georgius Thilo, Ed. 1881. Online version at the Perseus Digital Library (Latin).

Family
According to Hesiod, the Chimera's mother was a certain ambiguous “she”, which may refer to Echidna, in which case the father would presumably be Typhon, though possibly the Hydra or even Ceto was meant instead. However the mythographers Apollodorus (citing Hesiod as his source) and Hyginus both make the Chimera the offspring of Echidna and Typhon. Hesiod also has the Sphinx and the Nemean lion as the offspring of Orthus, and another ambiguous "she", often understood as probably referring to the Chimera, although possibly instead to Echidna, or again even Ceto.

Description
Homer gives a description in the Chimera in the Iliad, saying that "she was of divine stock, not of men, in the fore part a lion, in the hinder a serpent, and in the midst a goat, breathing forth in terrible wise the might of blazing fire." Both Hesiod and Apollodorus give similar descriptions: a three-headed creature, with a lion in front, a fire-breathing goat in the middle, and a serpent in the rear.

Killed by Bellerophon
According to Homer, the Chimera, who was reared by Amisodarus (the father of Atymnius and Maris, Trojan warriors killed by Nestor's sons Antilochus and Trasymedes), was "a bane to many men". As told in the Iliad, the hero Bellerophon was ordered by the king of Lycia to slay the Chimera (hoping that the monster would instead kill Bellerophon), but the hero "trusting in the signs of the gods", succeeded in killing the Chimera. Hesiod adds that Bellerophon had help in killing the Chimera, saying "her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophon slay".

A more complete account of the story is given by Apollodorus. Iobates, the king of Lycia, had ordered Bellerophon to kill the Chimera (who had been killing cattle and had "devastated the country"), since he thought that the Chimera would instead kill Bellerophon, "for it was more than a match for many, let alone one". But the hero mounted his winged horse Pegasus, "and soaring on high shot down the Chimera from the height."

Other stuff "Description" section of article

 * "The creature was a goat; a young goat that had seen but one winter was called chimaira in Greek". (Kerenyi 1959:82).


 * The Chimera is generally considered to have been female (see the quotation from Hesiod above) despite the mane adorning her head, the inclusion of a close mane was often depicted on lionesses, but the ears were always visible (that does not occur with depictions of male lions).


 * Robert Graves suggests, "The Chimera was, apparently, a calendar-symbol of the tripartite year, of which the seasonal emblems were lion, goat, and serpent."

Sphinx
According to Hesiod, the Sphinx&mdash;here called "Phix" (Φῖκ’)&mdash;was a daughter of Orthrus and either the Chimera (probably) or Echidna (or perhaps even Ceto). According to Apollodorus and Lasus, she was a daughter of Echidna and Typhon.

Hesiod has the Nemean lion as the offspring of Orthus, and an ambiguous "she", often understood as probably referring to the Chimera, or possibly to Echidna, or even Ceto.

Nemean Lion
Hesiod has the Nemean lion as the offspring of Orthus and an ambiguous "she", often read as referring to the Chimera, but also possibly referring to Echidna, or even Ceto. According to Hesiod, the lion was raised by Hera and sent to terrorize the hills of Nemea. According to Apollodorus, he was the offspring of Typhon. In another tradition, told by Aelian (citing Epimenides) and Hyginus, the lion was the child of the moon-goddess Selene, who threw him from the moon at Hera's request.

Echidna
According to Hesiod, the Sphinx and the Nemean lion were the offspring of Echidna's son Orthrus and an ambiguous "she", in line 326 of the Theogony, read variously as the Chimera, Echidna herself, or even Ceto, see Clay, p. 159, with n. 34

Ialysa

 * I've looked at several general sources and the only one which mentions an "Ialysa" is Robert Graves's The Greek Myths, however Graves is unfortunately not a particularly reliable source. Graves says (p. 200, 60.d) that the three cities, Lindus, Ialysus, and Cameirus, on the Island of Rhodes, were named after three Danaids (daughters of Danaus). I think his only ancient source for this is Strabo, 14.2.8 (which he cites) which says:
 * "After the Telchines, the Heliadae, according to the mythical story, took possession of the island; and to one of these, Cercaphus, and to his wife Cydippe, were born children who founded the cities that are named after them, 'Lindus, Ialysus, and Cameirus white with chalk.' But some say that Tlepolemus founded them and gave them the same names as those of certain daughters of Danäus.
 * Graves goes on to assume that the names of the daughters would have been "Linda, Cameira and Ialysa" (giving the city names feminine endings). But as I say no ancient source (that I can find) names them as such. And in particular no ancient source says that Ialysa was "worshipped on the island of Rhodes. Principally, she was venerated in Ialysos". I think all that is mere speculation somebody based upon the mere fact the city was supposedly named after her. So I think we should delete this article.

Plexippus
According to both Ovid and Apollodorus, the sons of Thestius participated in the hunt, scorned Atalanta, demanded the boar's skin, and were killed by Meleager. According to Ovid the sons were Plexippus and Toxeus, while according to Apollodorus the sons were Plixippus, Eurypylus, Evippus, and Iphiclus.

According to Ovid, Plexippus and Toxeus, the sons of Thestius, who along with the other sons of Thestius, participated in the hunt, scorned Atalanta, demanded the boar's skin, and killed by Meleager. brother of Toxeus, slain by Meleager. One of the four sons of Thestius, according to Apollodorus (1.7.10), who participated in the hunt, scorned Atalanta, demanded the boar's skin (1.8.2), and were killed by Meleager (1.8.3).

Zeno
p. 9

p. 40

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