User talk:Andrwsc/Archive 16

Template:Flagathlete
Hi, can you make a Template:Flagmedalist, something like Template:FlagIOCmedalist for non-IOC events. I tried to do it myself but it's a little confusing ! a template like Template:Flagathlete would be perfect. thanks in advance. Mohsen1248 (talk) 22:21, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In retrospect, FlagIOCmedalist might not be fully compliant with the Manual of Style, since the flag icon is adjacent to the athlete name, not to the country name, so I'm slightly reluctant to create a new template to advance that style. So why not use something like  ?  Here's an example showing the two styles:


 * What do you think? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:54, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * well, I'm not really insistent if you think it's not a good idea. but I see many different formats in wiki (1, 2 and 3), and maybe a medalist template can make a consistency. also it's easier to change a single template instead of many many pages. to me the outcome of  is prettier than  . Mohsen1248 (talk) 00:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, done. It would be great if you could help make a lot of those different styles consistent with this new template!  Thanks — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:27, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot to say thanks. Mohsen1248 (talk) 13:36, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Fantasy football flags
Regarding consensus on use of "fantasy football flags". I challenge this conclusion thus making that consensus ineffective. I propose that we start taking as a very relevant practice from Italian wikipedia and adopt it also in English wikipedia. Kostun (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:14, 3 May 2011 (UTC).
 * The correct place to discuss this idea is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football, not in the edit summaries of a single obscure page, nor my talk page. Thanks — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:16, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Before ever daring to threat me again - you must first prove that there actually is consensus on Teams flag issue. Kostun (talk) 21:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You want me to "prove" that every other editor who commented at WT:FOOTY—except you—wants them removed, and this does not constitute consensus on this Wikipedia? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Template help
For Olympic pages such as this one: The "flag bearer" is connected to the Opening Ceremony, but for Pan American Games, it is not. I have no clue on how to connect it, I guess you do. Thanks. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions  17:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the link from the "Flag bearer" infobox field? That goes to the 2008 Summer Olympics national flag bearers article, not 2008 Summer Olympics opening ceremony.  But what on earth are you doing with Infobox Pan American Games?  That should clearly have "Virgin Islands" in the template name, as it is hard-coded to that NOC.  In any case, the Infobox Country Pan American Games meta-template does not have a link for the "Flag Bearer" title, nor should it, since there are no existing articles for that topic.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs)
 * PS: when you want to add a new talk page section, please click "New section" at the top of the talk page instead of editing the (previously) bottom section, so that a more sensible edit summary is created.
 * Yes it does at least for the 2011 Pan American Games. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   19:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I see no flag bearer articles for any Pan-Am Games. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:24, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * List of national flag bearers Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   19:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, that's an article about the opening ceremony, isn't it? So do you want the infoboxes to link to opening ceremony articles? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Some events do link to the opening ceremony with the flag bearer section, and I do not think it is necessary for a flag bearers section article. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions  19:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * At this point, I don't understand what you are asking for. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:42, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Just connect the infobox to the flag bearers section of the opening ceremony. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   19:47, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * A meta-template cannot link to a section in a variable article name, unless the section name is identical in every instance of the article series. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:53, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This is the first time there is an article like this, so from now on we can name each section the same. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   20:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

List of current world boxing champions
Hi! As you protected the above mentioned page from editing for the next five days, I kindly ask you to update Koki Kameda's record as WBA bantamweight champion from 24-1 (15) to 25-1 (16). Thank you very much! claudevsq (talk) 15:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ But just in case more edits need to be made, please put the editprotected template on the talk page.  I travel a lot for business and can be away for days at a time (e.g. out of town Tuesday-Saturday next week) so it's better to get more admin attention via the template instead of potentially being held up waiting for me.  Thanks, — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:48, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi! Just wanted to thank you for the change made! I'm not sure if I fully understood what you mean with that template "thing", but the only other edits to be made until the protection expires will be Sebastian Sylvester's record in 4 hours as well as the records of Manny Pacquiao and Wilfredo Vázquez Jr in about 10 hours. Greetings, claudevsq (talk) 17:44, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sebastian Sylvester lost his IBF middleweight title to Australian boxer Daniel Geale, 25-1 (15), May 7, 2011. Wilfredo Vázquez Jr lost his WBO super bantamweight title to Mexican Jorge Arce, 57-6-2 (44), May 7, 2011. Pacquiao moves to 53-3-2 (38) (also Ring Magazine pound-for-pound list). Many greetings, claudevsq (talk) 04:50, 8 May 2011 (UTC).
 * Thanks a lot!!! Regards, claudevsq (talk) 16:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries, glad I got it right. But in the future, if you need to make an edit to a protected page, put the   template onto the page's talk page, with your explanation of requested changes.  This will automatically put the page into Category:Wikipedia protected edit requests, which is frequently patrolled by several admins.  This will be the most timely way to get your updates included.  Thanks — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Youth Olympics template help
Hi, for the country sub-pages for the Olympics have the list of Olympics they competed in on the right template. I have no idea how to do that for the Youth Olympic sub-pages. Can you help please. Thank you. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions  18:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Portuguese Empire flag
Hello ! First, sorry for my late response to your question.

In Portugal, Brazil and other former portuguese colonies, the Cross of the Order of Christ Flag (File:Portuguese Discoveries and Empire Flag.svg) is immediately identified as a symbol of the Portuguese Discoveries and the Portuguese Empire. That's because it was used as the Portuguese naval ensign and as colonial flag, during the age of the Portuguese Discoveries and after. You can see references to it in the folowing links: Former Portuguese Naval Flags (in Portuguese), Portuguese Seaborne Empire Flags (in English) and Historical Flags of Brazil (in Portuguese). You can also see references to the flag and variants in some english Wikipedia articles like: Flag of Brazil, São Paulo (Flag of the city of São Paulo, based on the portuguese colonial one) and Flag of Madeira. In other languages Wikipedia you can see references to the flag in the folowing articles: de:Flagge Portugals, es:Bandera de Portugal and pt:Anexo:Evolução da Bandeira Nacional de Portugal.

On the other side, the flags used in the articles and templates to symbolize the Portuguese Empire, are not especially associated with it, apart from the fact that they are old National Flags of Portugal. Also, this flag File:Flag Kingdom portugal.png was only used after 1830, when one of the major territories of the Portuguese Empire - Brazil - was no longer part of it.

Interestingly, to represent the Spanish Empire, it was used the Cross of Burgundy Flag, which was used by the Spaniards in a manner similar to the Cross of Christ Flag by the Portuguese. Jsobral (talk) 23:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Where is your source for using File:Portuguese Discoveries and Empire Flag.svg to represent the Portuguese Empire? Nothing like it is even mentioned on the Flag of Portugal article.  I understand that the Order of Christ Cross was used as an emblem on the sails of Portuguese ships in that era, but that does not make it the flag of Portugal. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 14:46, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Gala
What symbol do I use for the exhibition gala in gymnastics? I used a number sign. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions  04:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Why not just the letter "G", or "EG"? Much clearer than a symbol.  By the way, using the Olympic rings as an icon for the Ceremonies table row is an excellent way to solve that problem.  The only change I would make is to use a consistent width as the sport pictograms, so that the text is all left-aligned in the table.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I am still experimenting with that actually (the Olympic Rings) and I will go ahead and change it to EG. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   17:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Main stadium
For the Olympics infobox, what stadium(s) do we put as the main stadium? (Do we put both Opening and Closing ceremony stadiums if they are different?) Intoronto1125  Talk   Contributions   14:30, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose so. Which Games are you working on? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I just saw this sorry. To answer your question the 2012 Winter Youth Olympics Intoronto1125 Talk Contributions   05:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Template Slovakia
Hi Andrwsc, I would make you a request, could you fix the template Template:Country data Slovakia, only in basketball and badminton alias, could you replace Slovak Republic for Slovakia?. Greetings. --Raymond Cruise (talk) 20:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Rugby Union minor nations flag icons
I'm hoping you can help; I am editing various pages that relate to the East Africa rugby union team, Kenya rugby union team, Uganda rugby union team and Tanzania rugby union team and have been able to use the rugby union flag icons, ,  and. However, as with South Africa, these countries/colonies/protectorates changed flags at independence. Could you help me by showing me how, or directing me to instructions for adjust these templates so that they can be used with dates as the South African flag icon is?

Many thanks, Mbwa mwitu (talk) 18:29, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Check the documentation for Template:Country data Kenya, Template:Country data Uganda, etc. for information about flag "variants", which then become the second parameter to ru. For example,  gives .  Hope this helps — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:11, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Cheers, that is a great help. One more query however, with the independence of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania, East Africa ceased to exist as an entity though the East Africa rugby team continued to operate much in the manner of the British and Irish Lions. Some pages (incorectly!?) continue to use the colonial flag, I guess one option is simply not to use the ru template, but for consistency sake and to keep alignments etc, could the  template be edited such that with the inclusion of a "|1963" (a reasonable average date for the move to independence by these three countries) a thinly outlined empty rectangle would be created in the place of the flag (be that to the left or right of the text) to demonstrate that this is technically no longer a national selection? Or am I getting a bit retentive? :-)


 * Additionally, there is the new East African Community with it's own flag (though this is not quite the same) although the Ryder Cup articles use the EU flag and I'm not sure if players in all EU nations are eligible for selection...! Mbwa mwitu (talk) 11:15, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that using no flag whatsoever (like how the Lions results appear) is vastly preferable than repurposing the EAC flag or using an invented placeholder. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:09, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Boooo
haha way to make my disambiging harder by putting correct links to the Jets article lol. j/k This is going to be a fun mess to clean up. -DJSasso (talk) 04:52, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you're right. We should probably move old Winnipeg Jets to Winnipeg Jets (1972–96) first, then Winnipeg NHL team (and redirects) to Winnipeg Jets...  I shall stop what I'm doing. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:55, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have most done. Only about 400 left to go, most of which are season articles cause I had a feeling this might happen. :) I was prepared. -DJSasso (talk) 04:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Puerto Rico sport flag
It seems File:Puerto rico national sport flag.PNG has been deleted, leaving the early Puerto Rico Olympic articles without a flag in their infobox (1948) and 1952) and I suspect causing redlinks on many of the sport and event articles. I have no idea on flags but I'm hoping you'll be able to fathom the whys and wherefores and see if there is anything we can do to replace those uses. Cheers - Ba  se  me  nt  12  (T.C) 10:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Notification of FLC
Hi, since you created the base article/medal table for 1952 Winter Olympics medal table, this is a notification to inform you that after prose expansion by myself and, we've nominated it at WP:FLC. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 03:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Re: AU flag template redirect
Hi Andrew, I don't quite understand what is going on with the flag redirects, many have ISO3166-1 2digit redirects (US, UK, EU etc.). If we are standardising on the 3 digit codes shouldn't we discard those redirects also?

Some of the articles I am working on have quite a few flags in them and at the moment they are mixed between the full name and then the 2 digit and 3 digit ISO codes... I was hoping not to have to change them all around.

Cheers, Troll-Life (talk) 04:22, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There are far too many existing transclusions of US etc. to justify changing them and deleting them (and in the case of UK, many people do not like the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code of GBR) although I would argue that is preferable. But we certainly don't need to create new flag template redirects when they are not needed.  Additional discussion should take place at WT:WikiProject Flag Template if you disagree.  Thanks! — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:13, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

8TeamBracket
Sorry about that - I assumed it was an oversight since all the other ones were in pixels. I can't believe I didn't think that there would be uses that had already used em in their parameters. My bad - sorry for not checking first since it was semi-protected. -- Trödel 18:31, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries! — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Dominican Republic flags
Hi,

commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Flags of Dominican Republic towns and regions is probably of interest to you. I've just blanked nommed everything in the Commons category, that should get rid of everything missed by. Its possible there are valid flags in there, but I cannot tell which came from MDRU08 (and are fake) - so help would be appreciated over on Commons. Thanks.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

My Page
I have a question on my page the one you deleted Template:Country data Pensacola and i want to know why you did that please please and thank you Stepo114 Write back ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stepo114 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Please comment
Hi Andrwsc, would you please comment here regarding the usage of and its compatibly with WP:ACCESS, as comment of one user requires some major changes in this template, thanks and regards. undefined — Bill william compton Talk   04:52, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

1904 Summer Olympics
You were responsible for adding the number of participants for each country for the 1904 Summer Olympics. You state in your edit summary, "add num. competitors per Mallon." Is there some sort of reference for this before I challenge/remove this information? Thanks for your help? Barkeep <font color="Gray">Chat/<font color="Gray">''' 05:36, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Bill Mallon has done some exhaustive research of early Olympic Games, and has written several books, such as The 1904 Olympic Games: Results for All Competitors in All Events, With Commentary ISBN 0-78640-550-3. An excerpt of that is available for free on the LA84 Foundation website, which is probably where I got those numbers.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 15:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Missing flag?
Further to the flagu template you created following this discussion, I just noticed that Moldava is not catered for. Perhaps this is based on another template...


 * 🇲🇩 MDA -> 🇲🇩 MDA,
 * 🇲🇩 -> 🇲🇩
 * Moldava -> Moldava,
 * Moldava -> Moldava,
 * Moldava -> Moldava,
 * Moldava -> Moldava,

To illustrate using Spain:
 * 🇪🇸 ESP -> 🇪🇸 ESP,
 * 🇪🇸 -> 🇪🇸
 * -> (Spain),
 * 🇪🇸 Spain -> 🇪🇸 Spain,
 * 🇪🇸 -> 🇪🇸
 * 🇪🇸 Spain -> 🇪🇸 Spain,
 * 🇪🇸 -> 🇪🇸


 * The country's name is Moldova, not Moldava. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 15:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

FLC closed
Hey Andrwsc, this comment may be missed since the FLC has already been closed, pending the bot top-and-tail. Perhaps you'd be good enough to start a central thread at WP:ACCESS or similar to discuss your concern? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Row headers
Hi Andrwsc, at Featured list candidates/2010 Asian Para Games medal table/archive1, you asked this question, but the discussion has been capped, so I'll try to answer you here. No, it wasn't. "Because MOS says so" is an utterly useless answer. The MOS gives "good" examples of tables without row headers, so it appears as though only column headers are necessary. But perhaps that's besides the point. I do understand the accessibility considerations described here, and I can see the utility to read the table column-wise per the example from RexxS. However, my question is whether or not the screen reader requirements depend on the  markup or is the scope declaration sufficient? I'm asking if the aesthetic effect of the table header can be decoupled from the semantic meaning. It really looks bad for a row header to appear in the middle of the table. Clearly the intent of the darker color for header cells is intended for the top-most row and the left-most column. Is there any way to satisfy the accessibility requirements without coloring the "Nation" column differently? Your suggestion to use the  class to remove the bold header text is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, but with respect to cell color instead of font style. Should  in MediaWiki:Common.css also include  ? Or should we add  to each nation entry in the table? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:08, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

The very first example of a table that MOS:DTT gives is this: and it demonstrates the use of row headers when rendered. I'm sorry that the tutorial did not implicitly show that, but I've fixed that now.

I see that you accept that hearing "Gold, China (CHN), 185" is better than hearing "Gold, 185"? Your concern then, is whether we can ensure the former is heard without both TH and scope? The answer is no, for two reasons. First, different screen readers exist: some only understand TH; some only recognise scope; the best ones make use of both, but we maximise the usability of our table by marking up with both TD and scope. The second reason is that in HTML5 the scope attribute cannot be applied to TD, only to TH. I know we're not there yet, but there really is no point in writing markup that we know isn't going to work in the future. W3C had a reason for deprecating 'TD scope=' and it seems to have been because once a cell is identified as a header (column or row), there is little point in marking it up as TD.

I'm sorry that you feel the background colour as rendered in a wikitable is a problem. I find it advantageous to have a subtle indication of row headers, but I understand not everyone will agree with me. However, the consensus for styling row headers was thrashed out at Talk:Common.css MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 12 and MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 12. I apologise for pointing you at a huge discussion, but if you read it you'll see that we were able to get agreement that plainrowheaders would make text left-aligned and normal weight (not bold), but the argument that people would object to a slightly darker grey background was not convincing enough. It should be clear that using inline styles is not a favoured solution, so until the case is made at Common.css to alter the background colour in class .plainrowheaders, we ought to stick with the consensus that the background is used to indicate a row header. Hope that helps, --RexxS (talk) 23:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Template talk:Country data Tunisia
I'm new at editing templates so I have a question. Could you tell me what pre-inclusion means? Thank you. — Abjiklam (talk • stalk) 21:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See Template limits. Flag images are only added to country_data templates if they are needed by flag, flagicon, etc. to render icon-sized images.  It makes no sense to expand a template if these extra parameters are not used, because it affects every page that transcludes it, and there are several thousand pages that currently use Template:Country data Tunisia. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:39, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Flagicon
Hi, can you help me convert the image File:Flag of PASO.svg into the flagicon template. Thanks. Intoronto1125 <b style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Talk</b> Contributions  01:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not 100% convinced that the image is free to be hosted on Commons. commons:User:B1mbo claims he is the copyright holder, but that is certainly an improper license, as PASO is most certainly the copyright holder. Their website is down at the moment, so I can't verify that right now, but I don't want to create a new flag template just yet in case that work has to be undone later because the image is indeed in violation of WP:NFCC. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:43, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks, but that's part of the job! — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:44, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, ANI is happening today. I just had to issue another block; please feel free to review (Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents) and tell me I'm wrong. I don't like the job today, and I'm signing off. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:43, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Template Country Data Germany
This information about the flag needs to be brought up at the the template because only administrators can edit the template, it is banned to edit to others. Administrators need to be informed and make the changes. Also, another user has informed me that earlier flag legislation made the off-centred flag official in 1935. The infobox's flagicon section needs to be updated by an administrator.--R-41 (talk) 15:15, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Answered on the template's talk page. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:24, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Template:crw
Hey, I see you've edited this template (and cr) before and I'm not at all familiar with these kind of templates. Is it possible to add some codes for two other teams -- International XI women's cricket team, Young England women's cricket team as options. The latter would use the England flag while I'm not really sure what to do with the former (some generic globe or something?). cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  06:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There is consensus against using generic globe icons to represent the world (see Templates for discussion/Log/2010 March 28). You don't need to use  for everything; just use   for that team, and don't use any icon for the other. If you need alignment within a table, use . — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, ok thanks, I'll use the flagicon for YE. I don't think that TfD addresses the current situation -- it's not an aggregate that I'm looking to use a flag/icon for but actual teams that play international cricket as World XIs (both on the men's and women's side), but other than aesthetics I don't particularly care for a flag/icon in this case, so I'll leave it. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:03, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Need just a little help, please
I am trying to edit the DiMera family article's family tree section and I am having one problem can you please help? I just need a straight line going from the name "Kristen Blake DiMera" to the name "Stefano DiMera". I would also like the same for the name "Peter Blake DiMera" a straight line to "Stefano DiMera". Please and thank you! Bastian (talk) 21:09, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents
Self-explanatory. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 21:28, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Seriously? Wow.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:28, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Ireland at the Olympics
I would like to thank you for your input. I found the confict in the article when I was reading over it, one point made it was a republic team , the other point it is all-island. Most of the sports bodies are all-island. The anomaly is that until several years after partition their was only one association representing these competitors. Now it is a choice of the competitor which team they choose the OCI team or team GB. I have included links that state a British passport holder has competed for Ireland at the Olympics and the Articles of Association of the OCI and affiliates that state all-island, a BBC article showing OCI representing all-island and a qoute from the charter to explain why Ireland could use the flag, emblem and anthem that they do. The facts seem lost on one editor, hopefully your points will help him add constructively to the article. I am trying to avoid an edit war, I may have to ask for admin to resolve the conflict , possible yourself with your knowledge of the Olympics and the Charter - if not could you point me at how to refer to admin if it goes that far. Thank you .Murry1975 (talk) 20:10, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries. I've had that article on my watchlist since I made some major edits shortly after it was created in 2006. I agree that the situation needs better clarity in the prose text, and your observation about the internal inconsistency was spot-on. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 20:23, 30 September 2011 (UTC)